India v England 3rd Test

[Dipper]

Would you believe it England have got in a good position again after scoring 336 they have India at 7/218 but play has been stopped for rain as well as bad light at other times in the day.

We're running out of time, we've gotta bowl them out as quick as (probably tommorow) & then make a real effort for quick runs, unlike in the last Test.

The 2 novice opening bowlers have both taken 3 wickets & Tendulkar has been stumped for the first time in his career trying to hit out against Giles' negative over the wicket bowling (so I suppose it sort of worked even if the did make 90)

The funny thing is without Tendulkar I reckon we would have beaten them.

 

[Bucks]

cant believe it, how can England be so dominante against india in india?! too bad the aussies sucked!

 

[Santos L Helper]

This 'negative' tactic by Giles and England of bowling wide of the leg stump is a blight on cricket. I guess soon enough we'll see the leg-side wide rule changed to combat this tactic.
I think it just shows that England don't have a spinner capable of getting a bag of wickets when they bowl at the batsman, so they have to resort to this crap.

 

[GOALden Hawk]

It's been an interesting series - but I don't know if you would have won without Tendulkar Dipper - the lack of a quality spinner has shown. But Flintoff has certainly worked hard.

But I can't see Ganguly as a long term captain - he is a disgrace...actually that's proably just the kind of thing they look for in captains on the sub-continent.

 

[Dipper]

SLH,
My views on the negative tactics I put up on another thread & basically I don't agree with it.

But after the nightmare of the first test we've played India's 'quality' spinners without too much problem & have outplayed them in the last 2 Tests.How we've done it I'm not quite sure but credit where it's due, we've looked more likely to bowl them out than they have us.


As for Giles he took 5-67 in the 2nd Test, so he can take wickets & bowled us to victory in Pakistan a year ago where his figures were as good as Saqlians plus the 21 year old Dawson looks like he could have a future as an offie.Maybe not world beaters but not as bad as you make out.

 

[GoEagles]

Good performance overall by your blokes DIPPER. England did no worse then Australia with a 1-0 loss vs India in their home country. I read that they are coming to play you at home next year, would you give England a chance to win the series there?

 

[Dipper]

Well I'd hope so GoEagles.

I mean India are the worst travellers in world cricket.They hardly ever win away & on our greener pitches our seamer/swing bowlers should find it a lot easier plus there shouldn't be too much helpfor their spinners.

I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them but if Tendulkar does well then it could be tricky.

But all in all I'd fancy us.Plus we'll have Gough & Caddick available as well as Thorpe hopefully & you never know Rod Marsh might have turned a couple of our young blokes into possible Test candidates by then.

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
But I can't see Ganguly as a long term captain - he is a disgrace...actually that's proably just the kind of thing they look for in captains on the sub-continent.

Agreed mate,
I have always hated Ganguly.
And in the words of Steve Waugh, "he is a prick."

Hope he gets booed when he comes to Australia again.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

IMO, Ganguly is a worse captain than Ranatunga & that is saying something!

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by NICK THE PIE MAN


Agreed mate,
I have always hated Ganguly.
And in the words of Steve Waugh, "he is a prick."

Hope he gets booed when he comes to Australia again.

Wow! Coming from Steve Waugh and all!

Ganguly's sportmanship and captaincy can fairly be described as petulant and very poor, but it's not much of a slight coming from a man who will claim a catch that has bounced anywhere within a metre of him, and that will avoid the strike when batting with the tail, to preserve his "not out" and his average (after running out the middle order).

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by DIPPER
Well I'd hope so GoEagles.

I mean India are the worst travellers in world cricket.They hardly ever win away & on our greener pitches our seamer/swing bowlers should find it a lot easier plus there shouldn't be too much helpfor their spinners.

I'd be disappointed if we didn't beat them but if Tendulkar does well then it could be tricky.

But all in all I'd fancy us.Plus we'll have Gough & Caddick available as well as Thorpe hopefully & you never know Rod Marsh might have turned a couple of our young blokes into possible Test candidates by then.

Quite agree, Dipper. They are shocking, once they get on the plane. Their flat track bullies don't respond to the not-so-flat tracks outside of the sub-continent. Having said that, Tendulkar is a champion batsman, and Dravid would still get a game in most Test elevens.

Their prime weakness is the lack of pace options. Srinath holds down one end as an opener, and does have his good days, but his average is close to 30 (29.52), which is an unhealthy figure for an attack's pace spearhead. As good as say, Merv Hughes (av 28.87), was, you wouldn't want him as your sole paceman.

Ganguly is a regular option to open the bowling for a few overs to make the most of the new ball, before the attack reverts to spin for the rest of the innings. But you can't really make the most of the new ball with a medium pacer who doesn't take wickets. If the tactic is to rough up the ball for the spinnes, yo might as well throw in Kumble to open, as he is quick for a spinner, and his height and pace get a bit of bounce (especially with a new ball).

One point I agree with to an extent, but must also pick up on, is the inclusion of Caddick, Gough and Thorpe.
All well-deserving of their places in the team, and obviously all automatic selection when fit, but is it too much these days to fully expect them to be available for the next series vs India? I mean, Thorpe's record in particular suggests you'd want to see him with whites and pads on, walking out to the crease, before you're convinved he is playing. Gough has missed a lot of cricket over the years, and Caddick is in his mid 30s (at last effort, was bowling well but older players don't respond to injury as quickly or strongly).

I don't think India can beat England away from their own dusty dungheap, but they have enough batting talent to ensure they bat for draws and don't get beaten. As most of us know, it's not unusual fo sub-continental teams to rack up huge scores of 600+ and reduced matches to farcical non-results.

You can't rule out India getting up for a Test win (and possibly a series win by batting out the otehr matches for a draw) because they do have talent to work with, however the series will probably rest on how the English bastmen cope with the spin of Kumble and Harbhajan and if those two can bowl to the conditions.

With Trescothick in the team, th eopening combo looks a lot more solid, and with Foster's emergence as a 'keeper who can bat once agan Stewart can concentrate on his great mixture of defiance and attack, rather than be burdened as 'keeper and leader.

 

[mrboy]

at least hes indian.

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by Darky



Quite agree, Dipper. They are shocking, once they get on the plane. Their flat track bullies don't respond to the not-so-flat tracks outside of the sub-continent. Having said that, Tendulkar is a champion batsman, and Dravid would still get a game in most Test elevens.

Their prime weakness is the lack of pace options. Srinath holds down one end as an opener, and does have his good days, but his average is close to 30 (29.52), which is an unhealthy figure for an attack's pace spearhead. As good as say, Merv Hughes (av 28.87), was, you wouldn't want him as your sole paceman.

Ganguly is a regular option to open the bowling for a few overs to make the most of the new ball, before the attack reverts to spin for the rest of the innings. But you can't really make the most of the new ball with a medium pacer who doesn't take wickets. If the tactic is to rough up the ball for the spinnes, yo might as well throw in Kumble to open, as he is quick for a spinner, and his height and pace get a bit of bounce (especially with a new ball).

One point I agree with to an extent, but must also pick up on, is the inclusion of Caddick, Gough and Thorpe.
All well-deserving of their places in the team, and obviously all automatic selection when fit, but is it too much these days to fully expect them to be available for the next series vs India? I mean, Thorpe's record in particular suggests you'd want to see him with whites and pads on, walking out to the crease, before you're convinved he is playing. Gough has missed a lot of cricket over the years, and Caddick is in his mid 30s (at last effort, was bowling well but older players don't respond to injury as quickly or strongly).

I don't think India can beat England away from their own dusty dungheap, but they have enough batting talent to ensure they bat for draws and don't get beaten. As most of us know, it's not unusual fo sub-continental teams to rack up huge scores of 600+ and reduced matches to farcical non-results.

You can't rule out India getting up for a Test win (and possibly a series win by batting out the otehr matches for a draw) because they do have talent to work with, however the series will probably rest on how the English bastmen cope with the spin of Kumble and Harbhajan and if those two can bowl to the conditions.

With Trescothick in the team, th eopening combo looks a lot more solid, and with Foster's emergence as a 'keeper who can bat once agan Stewart can concentrate on his great mixture of defiance and attack, rather than be burdened as 'keeper and leader.

Yeah mate I agree with you regarding their pace bowling resources, there's not too much there but when they come to England they love it-I mean they're used to bowling on flat slowish pitches their whole careers & then they come to England & they see the ball deviating sideways off the pitch, swinging in the air & generally causing mischief & they think it must be Christmas.I remember Roger Binny who was the most average of 'fastish' medium bowlers having a fieldy aginst us in a series oover here in '86.
As for Srinath he always seem to bowl pretty well whenever I see him & although you point out his average is pushing 30, taken in context that he plays half his Tests in India it must be the equivalent to about 25/26 for a pace bowler who plays half his games in England or Australia.

As for them rattling up big scores for draws I'm not sure they can manage that over here, we beat them last time in 96 & they didn't seem able to hang around that long.Dravid actually seems to me the king of the flat track bullies in that team, he doesn't fancy the short stuff at all when the pitch has a bit of carry.

Hopefully we won't need to put the stay away players straight back in the side.For our series away to New Zealand after new year I don't think that Stewart or Gough will even be considered as they opted out of the India trip for a 'rest', ironically Caddick will be considered as cowardice is seen as a lesser offence in the halls of power in English cricket.It's a shame because Gough is perfect for NZ conditions really but he made his choice so I don't have much sympathy.
I doubt Stewart will be considered for a batting role by the selectors, I reckon it's wk or nothing.The thing is his batting av is so much better as opener, which he won't do when he's keeping wicket but now Foster is in I fancy the idea of a Trescothik/Stewart partnership.I just think they'd really feed off each other, they both love the ball coming on & I could see them putting on a few run a ball partnerships which you wouldn't get with Atherton in the side.

Thorpe's needed as the batting reserves aren't that good but there's a few decent young quicks on the seen.Hoggard already looks pretty decent at Test level & there's a few who've been over to Adelaide with Rod Marsh that he reckons have a real chance at Test cricket.There's Tudor who's been hampered by injury but at last they seem to have got to the bottom of it & I reckon he has a bright future.

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Originally posted by Darky


Wow! Coming from Steve Waugh and all!

Ganguly's sportmanship and captaincy can fairly be described as petulant and very poor, but it's not much of a slight coming from a man who will claim a catch that has bounced anywhere within a metre of him, and that will avoid the strike when batting with the tail, to preserve his "not out" and his average (after running out the middle order).

Come off it.
Waugh would never wear casual cloths out to toss the coin unlike some twat, or claim 'to bat' after losing the toss aginist Waugh with a Indian coin.

 

[mrboy]

whoooooooop.