Injuries V Gameplan

[scottydeewah]

Dont get to watch much footy anymore as I live in the states but I did get to see the weekends game live. Just wondering if you guys play that style every week? It reminded me a lot of us circa 2004 which we followed up with a lot of injuries during 2005. If you do play like that week in week out how long has it been for and would you agree it is contributing to your long injury list?

 

[Sanguinarius]

depends what you mean.

if you mean do we play hard footy every week then yes.

but we are definitly more defensive becasue of our injuries.

if we had more of our first choice players back and fit, we'd be playing more like we did last year.

 

[scottydeewah]

I am not debating whether your team goes in hard but the close quarters, congested, low scoring, indirect, highly defensive style of play is very taxing. We did similar in 2004 as we had an awesome backline, hardworking midfielders and no forward line. So our only option was to choke sides to death. 2004 prelim was a great example where we shut down Brisbane (doubled their inside 50s) but still didnt win. If you watched that game is was SO taxing, it was no surprise they lost the next week.

I can see how you are between a rock and a hard place. You cant play open attacking direct football because you have injuries. But playing the type of indirect defensive football you played against us is just going to lead to more injuries.

 

[maccas_no1]

Personally Im bewildered by our current gameplan, we are playing such a tough draining type of footy at the moment that is just absolutely stuffing ourselves, and really doesnt allow any injuries that get encountered during the game, otherwise you get what happened on the w/end when you require those rotations they cant happen and physically you run out of legs and lose the game.

Im confused at the moment

 

[Mad Dog]

Craigy tells us that he wants players to come into the 22 and perform - and that injuries are not an excuse.....he doesn't want players to come in and tread water - he wants them to perform...

....but - it's clear that with the injuries - we have become more defensive....

these 2 things seem to be at odds.

When you look at our best 22 - there are really only 6 missing,

Biglands, Trent, Reilly, Goody, Bode, Burton.

we have some decent players come into the side.....

Griffin, Perrie, McGregor, Porps, Stevens etc......I really can't see why the attacking part of our game needs to suffer.

 

[scottydeewah]

Im confused at the moment

I can see that. I think though that the way the game is now days that teams really put themselves in a hard position. You need to play this game because your personal is down, yet it is going to lead to your personal going down more. Big vicious circle!

 

[crowman_23]

Craigy tells us that he wants players to come into the 22 and perform - and that injuries are not an excuse.....he doesn't want players to come in and tread water - he wants them to perform...

....but - it's clear that with the injuries - we have become more defensive....

these 2 things seem to be at odds.

When you look at our best 22 - there are really only 6 missing,

Biglands, Trent, Reilly, Goody, Bode, Burton.

we have some decent players come into the side.....

Griffin, Perrie, McGregor, Porps, Stevens etc......I really can't see why the attacking part of our game needs to suffer.

Exactly. We should still be attacking. I am also very confused with our gameplan currently. And lets face it, we have a couple of injuries but not such massive ones. We know Biglands and Hentschel won't play this year so we can't really count them. I feel we miss Bode and Burton quite a bit. But when Riccuito was coming back into the side the papers were all over how hard a decision it was. When he came in it was a very strong side. There should be no excuses.

 

[maccas_no1]

Craigy tells us that he wants players to come into the 22 and perform - and that injuries are not an excuse.....he doesn't want players to come in and tread water - he wants them to perform...

....but - it's clear that with the injuries - we have become more defensive....

these 2 things seem to be at odds.

When you look at our best 22 - there are really only 6 missing,

Biglands, Trent, Reilly, Goody, Bode, Burton.

we have some decent players come into the side.....

Griffin, Perrie, McGregor, Porps, Stevens etc......I really can't see why the attacking part of our game needs to suffer.

Those are my thoughts exactly and why I am confused about why we are playing the way we are.

Its alright on one hand to say well Bock and Welsh didnt play that great, but be honest for a moment here, did they have genuine opportunitties to kick a bag of goals with the style of game we were playing????? Not at all.

 

[scottydeewah]

Burton is a massive out, I love him he gives you a lot of flexibility. I think out of all your players i would almost take him down at Geelong.

But anyway enough of the man love.

I can sort of see playing a little defensive but once you had us down three goals you should have opened up and tried to attack. If you had of kicked another 2-3 quick goals the game could have almost been over.

I suppose we are all just a bit confused. The game plan doesn't appear to do your team any good or help with injuries.

 

[Tas]

I think perhaps it has got to do with the trend of having senior players start to hang up the boots, there is less experienced depth and you rely on youth more. It is not just the retirements, I think a few fringe players have been let go over the years in a bid to start developing the new generation, it has left the list a bit vulernable to injuries.

When you look at last year, off the top of my head Clark, Hart and Skipworth have been let go. There is a very good reason to let them go but it leaves the coach with fewer options when you run into injury problems.

There is just diminishing scope to absorb the loss of players when your backup is a lot of skinny kids that have played 20 games or less.

Ultimately, the Crows have really been starved in terms of their creative players. Guys like Roo, Burton, Hentschel and even Biglands can go forward and create a few goals out of nothing and NC was happy for you guys to kick the ball into the hot spot quickly because the creative players where there to make goals out of nothing. Those guys fit would add 5 goals, minimum to your side so you are looking at having to survive kicking say 10-15 goals instead of 15-20 and to try and win a match kicking 10-15 goals you really have to play defensive and stop the opposition from scoring.

 

[Mad Dog]

What a contrasting post -

I think perhaps it has got to do with the trend of having senior players start to hang up the boots, there is less experienced depth and you rely on youth more. It is not just the retirements, I think a few fringe players have been let go over the years in a bid to start developing the new generation, it has left the list a bit vulernable to injuries.

When you look at last year, off the top of my head Clark, Hart and Skipworth have been let go. There is a very good reason to let them go but it leaves the coach with fewer options when you run into injury problems.

There is just diminishing scope to absorb the loss of players when your backup is a lot of skinny kids that have played 20 games or less..

what a load of rot....

Our current issues have SFN to do with senior players retiring....and there's certainly not a trend. Hart and Skipworth contributed next to zero over the last year or so....13 and 6 games respectively in 2006. Griffin has come on beyond expectations and has contributed more than anyone would have hoped Maric and Meesen would have.

The kids we are playing are not skinny - Knights, van Berlo, Porplyzia have bigger bodies than most their age.

As for fringe players being let go - there is only Skipworth, Begley, and Ladhams.......hardly any impact there.

Ultimately, the Crows have really been starved in terms of their creative players. Guys like Roo, Burton, Hentschel and even Biglands can go forward and create a few goals out of nothing and NC was happy for you guys to kick the ball into the hot spot quickly because the creative players where there to make goals out of nothing. Those guys fit would add 5 goals, minimum to your side so you are looking at having to survive kicking say 10-15 goals instead of 15-20 and to try and win a match kicking 10-15 goals you really have to play defensive and stop the opposition from scoring.

This is more the issue - it was quite obvious that losing Roo and Burton at the end of last year hurt our chances a lot

 

[Stiffy_18]

Craigy tells us that he wants players to come into the 22 and perform - and that injuries are not an excuse.....he doesn't want players to come in and tread water - he wants them to perform...

....but - it's clear that with the injuries - we have become more defensive....

these 2 things seem to be at odds.

When you look at our best 22 - there are really only 6 missing,

Biglands, Trent, Reilly, Goody, Bode, Burton.

we have some decent players come into the side.....

Griffin, Perrie, McGregor, Porps, Stevens etc......I really can't see why the attacking part of our game needs to suffer.

But then you are ignoring the impact of those players missing in our forward line. We are a stagnant, mechanical forward line with personnel down there that are similar in style. There is no variation is style and ability. We have too much of the same thing and not enough genuine goal kickers.

Roo and Welsh are similar in style of play, we got no crumber, wo don't have anyone in that forward line that was unpredictable. Last year we had a genuine crumber in Bode who would hunt the gound ball and keep it in the 50 with fantastic defensive pressure.

We had Hentschel and Burton who are both genuine match winners and they are unpredictable. They are not mechanical lead, mark and kick forwards like the others we have there.

That is the reason why we are not as attacking as we have been. We don't have the personnel in the forward line and that has an effect on the side overall. Just bring in Bode, Burton and Hentschel into that forward line and it will be raining goals because they complement the players that are already there. Now we have too much of the same thing and out forward line is made up of mismatched pieces. As individuals they are capable of kicking a bag, but as a unit they are not compatible. They are too similar, get in each others way and its very easy to blanket that forward line.

Coaching staff sees this, players see this and they adjust the game plan accordingly.

We might only be 6 players away from our best 22 but most of those players are the ones we relied on to kick a winning score (ie our forwards) and one area where we can least afford to take a hit is the forward line. Unfortunately that is the area where we have taken a real hit as far as injuries are concerned.

 

[maccas_no1]

But then you are ignoring the impact of those players missing in our forward line. We are a stagnant, mechanical forward line with personnel down there that are similar in style. There is no variation is style and ability. We have too much of the same thing and not enough genuine goal kickers.

Roo and Welsh are similar in style of play, we got no crumber, wo don't have anyone in that forward line that was unpredictable. Last year we had a genuine crumber in Bode who would hunt the gound ball and keep it in the 50 with fantastic defensive pressure.

We had Hentschel and Burton who are both genuine match winners and they are unpredictable. They are not mechanical lead, mark and kick forwards like the others we have there.

That is the reason why we are not as attacking as we have been. We don't have the personnel in the forward line and that has an effect on the side overall. Just bring in Bode, Burton and Hentschel into that forward line and it will be raining goals because they complement the players that are already there. Now we have too much of the same thing and out forward line is made up of mismatched pieces. As individuals they are capable of kicking a bag, but as a unit they are not compatible. They are too similar, get in each others way and its very easy to blanket that forward line.

Coaching staff sees this, players see this and they adjust the game plan accordingly.

We might only be 6 players away from our best 22 but most of those players are the ones we relied on to kick a winning score (ie our forwards) and one area where we can least afford to take a hit is the forward line. Unfortunately that is the area where we have taken a real hit as far as injuries are concerned.

Agree with all of that, but when opposition clubs play against the AFC and their preperation already know that we are going to play defensively dont we then become to predictable???

Okay we realise that we have a weakness with our forwardline.......why arent we rolling the dice and maybe just maybe trying something different, to change they way we play?? Turn a weakness into a positive............I mean to me (and I maybe wrong) we are playing a very draining type of footy that I dont think benefits our players over all in terms of their own conditioning etc and being able to run out a game the week after.

 

[Crow-mo]

Im confused at the moment

disagree.

 

[smoovy]

Agree with all of that, but when opposition clubs play against the AFC and their preperation already know that we are going to play defensively dont we then become to predictable???

Okay we realise that we have a weakness with our forwardline.......why arent we rolling the dice and maybe just maybe trying something different, to change they way we play?? Turn a weakness into a positive............I mean to me (and I maybe wrong) we are playing a very draining type of footy that I dont think benefits our players over all in terms of their own conditioning etc and being able to run out a game the week after.

I think what you are saying is that we should go one on one all over the ground. That's the only thing I think we can really do.

Problem with that gameplan is that you still have to be brave, you have to back your team mates to win the ball and run forward of the ball. This could end in tears if the ball is turned over, the result being unmarked opposition players everywhere.

Another problem with this gameplan is that as soon as we go one on one, opposition coaches will flood our forward lines. We will end up having 10 forwards (with 10 opponents) while the oppsoition will have 2, they will then be able to exploit the extra space.

Regardless of what everyone says I still think that we have tried to be attacking. We have genuinelly tried to create run through handball from the backline. The biggest problem is that we are hitting a brick wall forward of centre, basically due to a failure to win 50-50 contests across that line. Poor delivery and lack of efficient ground players able to read the ball are the biggest reason for this...conetsted marking ability is no where near as important in todays football.

 

[smoovy]

But then you are ignoring the impact of those players missing in our forward line. We are a stagnant, mechanical forward line with personnel down there that are similar in style. There is no variation is style and ability. We have too much of the same thing and not enough genuine goal kickers.

Roo and Welsh are similar in style of play, we got no crumber, wo don't have anyone in that forward line that was unpredictable. Last year we had a genuine crumber in Bode who would hunt the gound ball and keep it in the 50 with fantastic defensive pressure.

We had Hentschel and Burton who are both genuine match winners and they are unpredictable. They are not mechanical lead, mark and kick forwards like the others we have there.

That is the reason why we are not as attacking as we have been. We don't have the personnel in the forward line and that has an effect on the side overall. Just bring in Bode, Burton and Hentschel into that forward line and it will be raining goals because they complement the players that are already there. Now we have too much of the same thing and out forward line is made up of mismatched pieces. As individuals they are capable of kicking a bag, but as a unit they are not compatible. They are too similar, get in each others way and its very easy to blanket that forward line.

Coaching staff sees this, players see this and they adjust the game plan accordingly.

We might only be 6 players away from our best 22 but most of those players are the ones we relied on to kick a winning score (ie our forwards) and one area where we can least afford to take a hit is the forward line. Unfortunately that is the area where we have taken a real hit as far as injuries are concerned.

Absolutely, we need to be unpredictable.....we need more loose cannons in our forward line!

Johncock is a start.

 

[-CG-]

Burton will be back after the break

 

[King Elvis]

Considering all of the focus on our structures and system, to me, our Forward line has no system what-so-ever.

 

[smoovy]

Considering all of the focus on our structures and system, to me, our Forward line has no system what-so-ever.

What exactly do you mean by that comment? Are you saying that our forwards just hang around in some sort of random fashion?

Suggest what sort of system you think they should have.

 

[maccas_no1]

What exactly do you mean by that comment? Are you saying that our forwards just hang around in some sort of random fashion?

Suggest what sort of system you think they should have.

No what he means it is very hit and miss, we each weeek have to hope that it functions somehow, that somehow either a Bock, McGregor, Welsh, Perrie have a great game, but more often than not the ball comes in and back out and this is where Bode is missed for his crumbing capabilities.

This is the reason why when we go forward our midfeilders go so deep as to try and keep posession in our F50.

 

[King Elvis]

What exactly do you mean by that comment? Are you saying that our forwards just hang around in some sort of random fashion?

Suggest what sort of system you think they should have.

Do they create space for each other.

Do they 'block' the other defender to give them a clear run at a lead.

When they can't mark, are they knocking the ball to advantage.


I'd almost clear it out completely, Have Johncock/McGregor starting at FF, and have everyone else across the CHF line.

I don't know if that is a solution, but I think we need to be trying something new.

Smoovy - do you think we have a clear system in place for our forward line?

 

[Tas]

what a load of rot....

Our current issues have SFN to do with senior players retiring....and there's certainly not a trend. Hart and Skipworth contributed next to zero over the last year or so....13 and 6 games respectively in 2006. Griffin has come on beyond expectations and has contributed more than anyone would have hoped Maric and Meesen would have.

Your point doesn't make much sense given you didn't have any real injury issues until late last year, your depth players were not really called on to play a significant role in the last couple of years.

The kids we are playing are not skinny - Knights, van Berlo, Porplyzia have bigger bodies than most their age.

Knights isn't a "kid", he is 23 and has been playing seniors since 2005, this is his third year of senior football, you wouldn't expect him to be skinny. He is inexperienced for his age, wouldn't call him a kid. He is okay size-wise.

VB and Porplyzia are not skinny but they have a lightly build, there is nothing wrong with a light build, Swallow and Harris are similar size to those two but it limits the kinds of roles you can play if you are light. You want to ask Harris what it was like playing on Roo in the middle when he was tossing him around like a rag doll.

Douglas and Griffin are skinny for their frame.

It is just adding a few extra light players draw a bit away from the physically powerful Adelaide side that has harassed teams the last few years. The current Adelaide side isn't as physically intimidating as the 05 or 06 side, there have been more ligher players come on this year and expected to play a lot of game time and in important positions. For a defensive oriented team I don't think having too many lighter built players suits the style of play.

You wont have an issue with us as we have an excessive number of lightly built players given we play a lot of young/inexperienced players.

As for fringe players being let go - there is only Skipworth, Begley, and Ladhams.......hardly any impact there.

Yeah, they had no real impact in recent years but were not really needed in recent years. I think other than the game Skipworth went forward and kicked 5 goals on us in 2005 he really didn't do a great deal that year and wasn't really needed in 06. He would have been handy now though but you have to make room for the new generation.

I am not being critical of NC, he is doing the right thing with the list, just being caught with the kind of injury issues you haven't really had to deal with for a while so are now needing more out of the depth players.

This is more the issue - it was quite obvious that losing Roo and Burton at the end of last year hurt our chances a lot

Roo is a massive loss, one of the best players to ever play the game is always going to be a huge loss. Burton is a loss but having him up forward the way the ball is going inside 50 I doubt would allow you to get the same kind of output as you did in 05/06.

The issues are a bit more complex in my opinion.

Hudson/Griffin is not providing the same kind of drive out of the middle this year is a major cause imo. Crows went from 3rd in hit outs in 05 to 4th in 06 to 8th so far this year, supply is not what it used to be both in terms of quality and quantity. Not surprising given Hudson missed a fair bit of footy and Biglands is out injured and Clarke is not around.

Given the circumstances the ruck output has been good but it is not at the same level when you were dominating in the midfield, which explains less midfield supply.

I think the other major issue is the breakdown of your key forwards. Perrie, Welsh and Stevens are not really playing their best football. Ball seems to be rebounding out of forward 50 a lot, a lot less pressure on the defensive side rebounding and a lot less opportunities for the creative smaller forwards.

I think Burton coming back and Roo getting some more touch will definitely help but I think the other issues will still make it difficult for the Crows to dominate like they did the last two years.

 

[Alex99]

Knights isn't a "kid", he is 23 and has been playing seniors since 2005, this is his third year of senior football, you wouldn't expect him to be skinny. He is inexperienced for his age, wouldn't call him a kid. He is okay size-wise.

http://www.afc.com.au/TheClub/Playe...layerId/13957/teamId/40/typeId/2/Default.aspx

25th of October 1986

Making him 20 years old.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think though that the way the game is now days that teams really put themselves in a hard position. You need to play this game because your personal is down, yet it is going to lead to your personal going down more. Big vicious circle!

It is a very good observation. In David Parkin's commentary on the weekend he also mentioned that the Crows train harder and longer than any team he has seen. I am a huge Neil Craig fan and have praised/defended him in almost every aspect of his coaching but I admit that the question has to be asked.

How do we ensure that our best players are able to maintain a high workrate in games and high training workload without picking up injuries along the way? Is it possible? Are we pushing the boundaries too far? I know there are some 'impact' injuries that cannot be put down to training too hard but there are always going to be more impact injuries in contested, one-on-one footy. Is the training/match day combination making it impossible for us to keep our injury list down?

So how do we do it?. Do we need to use the Australian cricket team 'rotation' system? I know how popular that is...

 

[Crow-mo]

Your point doesn't make much sense given you didn't have any real injury issues until late last year, your depth players were not really called on to play a significant role in the last couple of years.

no matter how long the essay, basing it on this fatally flawed presumption isn't going to add any validity.