Strength Irritating people/things that annoy you in the gym III

[peternorth]

Would the world (gyms) be better off without PTs?

 

[GROTTO]

The bolded is the biggest benefit of a coach / PT / trainer IMO, teach you how to do the movements correctly and keep the ego in check.

No pain, no gain is a real misleading sentiment, exercise shouldn't cause pain when done properly.

There's plenty of motivated PTs out there that really help people, but unfortunately there's also plenty who have no idea what they're doing and are ripping people off.

If I was a PT with an absolute newbie, teach them how to warm up and how to cool down afterwards. Then I would do is teach them the 6-8 compound lifts and how do them with either barbells or dumbbells in every workout. In fact, I would just begin with them using a wooden stick to do all those exercises with perfect technique and progress slowly from there.

You do this and you lay a strong foundation for the rest of their lives.

The problem is, is that sounds boring as f**k, is "too easy" and feels like your being robbed of your money.

Given the primary reason why most clients see PT is to lose weight and look better, most PT's would never tell clients it really begins and ends with your diet, exercise plays a role in helping facilitate that, but unless your diet is in check, no matter what you do in the gym your not going to lose weight or look better.

 

[GROTTO]

Would the world (gyms) be better off without PTs?

PT's do have a role and there is a need for them for some people, I definitely believe this.

I just dont believe they are worth $50-$100 in which they charge.

Most people on here that post, could easily train a newbie.

 

[phantom13]

My (completely uneducated and unwarranted) opinion woukd be that 85-90% of people using a pt (especially ones that operate out of a gym) do it for “motivation” as in “I’ve paid for these session upfront and if I don’t go I lose the cash” and that is totally fine, whatever works for you.

If you’ve been training for any reasonable length of time and still have PTs I’d say your cooked and you’ll never establish an intrinsic desire to workout yourself.

Of the remaining 10% I’d say it’s fear of a gym or got bullied into getting sessions when they signed up

* I don’t count pro athletes with trainers or like Hemsworth bulking for Thor

 

[GROTTO]

My (completely uneducated and unwarranted) opinion woukd be that 85-90% of people using a pt (especially ones that operate out of a gym) do it for “motivation” as in “I’ve paid for these session upfront and if I don’t go I lose the cash” and that is totally fine, whatever works for you.

If you’ve been training for any reasonable length of time and still have PTs I’d say your cooked and you’ll never establish an intrinsic desire to workout yourself.

Of the remaining 10% I’d say it’s fear of a gym or got bullied into getting sessions when they signed up

* I don’t count pro athletes with trainers or like Hemsworth bulking for Thor

100% agree.

In regards to saying that the person is "cooked", I would take it a step further and say that the PT is also 100% "cooked" as well. I mean if you cant train a client to have the capacity to train successfully on their own say after a maximum of say 10 sessions (by success I mean, reasonably good and safe form) thats a very very poor reflection of the quality of training that the PT is imparting.

A PT will never say this to a client, but ideally if you are watching youtube videos of how to lift, coupled with one on one training, a month (three times a week) is all you need of PT training if you are complete newbie.

 

[phantom13]

100% agree.

In regards to saying that the person is "cooked", I would take it a step further and say that the PT is also 100% "cooked" as well. I mean if you cant train a client to have the capacity to train successfully on their own say after a maximum of say 10 sessions (by success I mean, reasonably good and safe form) thats a very very poor reflection of the quality of training that the PT is imparting.

A PT will never say this to a client, but ideally if you are watching youtube videos of how to lift, coupled with one on one training, a month (three times a week) is all you need of PT training if you are complete newbie.

I agree but I give the PT a pass, if they can have repeat business for no real work then more power to them

 

[SnakeMan86]

Would the world (gyms) be better off without PTs?

PT's aren't the issue....Bad ones are.

Getting your Cert 3 and 4 quals was the "In" thing to do 10 years ago. Everyone got them and there was a million different courses to get them, a majority of them were online.

Too many 18-24year olds found the cheapest online course to quickly get there quals, to quickly get a job. They then flooded the workforce and gyms were in-turn flooded with poorly trained instructors.

Then instagram blew up, and anyone could stick a needle in there arse, look good in there underwear, gain a bunch of followers and profit from being good at looking good, but having NFI how to properly train the general population and your average punter.

PT's are definitely needed. and you can call this personal bias, as i've been one for over 15 years now and manage a small gym.

There is that much misinformation out there, that your average punter for example actually has no idea how to safely lose weight and maintain a healthy weight range. There are dozens, if not hundreds of fads out there which "guarantee" weight loss for instance which can be confusing and daunting all at the same time.

When i client comes to see me, 95% of the time i teach them how to put themselves in a 15-20% calorie defecit before even picking up a weight, to start there weight loss "Journey" (hate that word lol)

My (completely uneducated and unwarranted) opinion woukd be that 85-90% of people using a pt (especially ones that operate out of a gym) do it for “motivation” as in “I’ve paid for these session upfront and if I don’t go I lose the cash” and that is totally fine, whatever works for you.

If you’ve been training for any reasonable length of time and still have PTs I’d say your cooked and you’ll never establish an intrinsic desire to workout yourself.

Of the remaining 10% I’d say it’s fear of a gym or got bullied into getting sessions when they signed up

* I don’t count pro athletes with trainers or like Hemsworth bulking for Thor

For sure, a vast majority have the mindset "If i pay the extra, then it will force me to go" but most people are just lost, and actually have no idea where to start. Hence the PT. You'd be surprised how many people have never used a gym in there life.

 

[peternorth]

I had PT for around maybe 4-5 years I think. I am not ashamed to say it publicly. It was motivation for going as money was dispensed with, more than happy to acknowledge it. PT person was doing it for money, which I am ok with as well. It was a business transaction at first, then the first PT left, so did the second one, the third one and I became friends. We went through a bit together. Then he left. I undertook a fourth one. He wa interesting. The gym did not treat him or his cohorts well i was lead to believe, so he left. I was cool with that. I worked out myself for some time thereafter.

 

[peternorth]

PT's aren't the issue....Bad ones are.

Getting your Cert 3 and 4 quals was the "In" thing to do 10 years ago. Everyone got them and there was a million different courses to get them, a majority of them were online.

Too many 18-24year olds found the cheapest online course to quickly get there quals, to quickly get a job. They then flooded the workforce and gyms were in-turn flooded with poorly trained instructors.

Then instagram blew up, and anyone could stick a needle in there arse, look good in there underwear, gain a bunch of followers and profit from being good at looking good, but having NFI how to properly train the general population and your average punter.

PT's are definitely needed. and you can call this personal bias, as i've been one for over 15 years now and manage a small gym.

There is that much misinformation out there, that your average punter for example actually has no idea how to safely lose weight and maintain a healthy weight range. There are dozens, if not hundreds of fads out there which "guarantee" weight loss for instance which can be confusing and daunting all at the same time.

When i client comes to see me, 95% of the time i teach them how to put themselves in a 15-20% calorie defecit before even picking up a weight, to start there weight loss "Journey" (hate that word lol)


For sure, a vast majority have the mindset "If i pay the extra, then it will force me to go" but most people are just lost, and actually have no idea where to start. Hence the PT. You'd be surprised how many people have never used a gym in there life.

That is interesting, and id say correct - bad ones are the problem. I dont think you'll convince every person that trains/lifts of that however. Just like after 9/11 all muslims are terrorists or anyone wearing a turban (for real lol), or that chinese people are dangerous because of covid. There is a perception that PTs are not worth $ etc, or scum of the earth.

 

[phantom13]

For sure, a vast majority have the mindset "If i pay the extra, then it will force me to go" but most people are just lost, and actually have no idea where to start. Hence the PT. You'd be surprised how many people have never used a gym in there life.

Yeh, look this is true, but i think if you get a gym membership and have the free PT sessions that usually come with it, that, for me at least, would be enough.

If you wanna keep at it for motivation then more power to you, i worry that that mindset doesnt help the discipline over motivation thing and as soon as you dump your PT or the PT leaves or whatever youll stop going but to each their own, whatever works.

If youre using your PT to continue to learn and develop i think there are much better, more efficient and smarter ways to do it.

I had PT for around maybe 4-5 years I think. I am not ashamed to say it publicly. It was motivation for going as money was dispensed with, more than happy to acknowledge it. PT person was doing it for money, which I am ok with as well. It was a business transaction at first, then the first PT left, so did the second one, the third one and I became friends. We went through a bit together. Then he left. I undertook a fourth one. He wa interesting. The gym did not treat him or his cohorts well i was lead to believe, so he left. I was cool with that. I worked out myself for some time thereafter.

Again, if it works for you then thats cool, i would suggest that youre the exception to the rule (and good on you for it) continuing after the PTs, i suspect most would just stop.

That is interesting, and id say correct - bad ones are the problem. I dont think you'll convince every person that trains/lifts of that however. Just like after 9/11 all muslims are terrorists or anyone wearing a turban (for real lol), or that chinese people are dangerous because of covid. There is a perception that PTs are not worth $ etc, or scum of the earth.

This is fair but two things.

1- I think its a tiny minority of muslims/arabs/middle easterners (no more than the rest of the races of the world) whereas i think the majority of PTs are bad/in it for a quick buck/insta types. Finding the good ones is rare. Finding ones who wont rob you blind for next to to return.

2- Money is all relative too. If youre wealthy and it helps to motivate you or whatever and you can comfortably afford a PT every second day to your house on some wild hourly rate, more power to you. If youre not flush then there are better ways to spend your money on health and fitness.

 

[CaptchaProofBot]

If I was a PT with an absolute newbie, teach them how to warm up and how to cool down afterwards. Then I would do is teach them the 6-8 compound lifts and how do them with either barbells or dumbbells in every workout. In fact, I would just begin with them using a wooden stick to do all those exercises with perfect technique and progress slowly from there.

You do this and you lay a strong foundation for the rest of their lives.

The problem is, is that sounds boring as f**k, is "too easy" and feels like your being robbed of your money.

Given the primary reason why most clients see PT is to lose weight and look better, most PT's would never tell clients it really begins and ends with your diet, exercise plays a role in helping facilitate that, but unless your diet is in check, no matter what you do in the gym your not going to lose weight or look better.

sounds like kung fu.

 

[CaptchaProofBot]

this guy but he can annoy me as much as he wants... he does a hopoate too

 

[mcgarnacle]

* I don’t count pro athletes with trainers or like Hemsworth bulking for Thor

The point you make is interesting. So these guys who most likely have a better idea how to train, need a trainer, but the bulk of gen pop who have no clue what they're doing don't?

Yes, I was a trainer so I am a little biased.

I liken it to a music teacher. I play guitar and I've picked up lots of things from the web which have been helpful, but there's a s**t tonne of things that I do that the guy posting a clip of youtube doesn't know I do and it hampers my playing. That's where the music teacher helps! Likewise, I've seen plenty of folks, both gen pop and high level sport which is where I ply my trade now, do stuff they saw on the net, or have seen the bloke across the room do, and butcher it completely.

* me! Kirk Hammett of Metallica has a music teacher!

Trainers will always be in a gym. If what they do upsets you, complain to reception or work out at 10pm.

My suggestion though is focus on what you can control and ignore the noise.

 

[phantom13]

The point you make is interesting. So these guys who most likely have a better idea how to train, need a trainer, but the bulk of gen pop who have no clue what they're doing don't?

Yes, I was a trainer so I am a little biased.

I liken it to a music teacher. I play guitar and I've picked up lots of things from the web which have been helpful, but there's a s**t tonne of things that I do that the guy posting a clip of youtube doesn't know I do and it hampers my playing. That's where the music teacher helps! Likewise, I've seen plenty of folks, both gen pop and high level sport which is where I ply my trade now, do stuff they saw on the net, or have seen the bloke across the room do, and butcher it completely.

* me! Kirk Hammett of Metallica has a music teacher!

Trainers will always be in a gym. If what they do upsets you, complain to reception or work out at 10pm.

My suggestion though is focus on what you can control and ignore the noise.

I mean, i havent written a complaint from my gym time in this thread for months or years, i train at home now so i couldnt gaf what you do and where,

I dont think Hemsworth or pro athletes "need" a trainer but for them they are looking for elite results, not the stuff that your standard gym goer is searching for.

Again, people can do as they please, im not criticizing all trainers and people who use them, in my experience (which is pretty vast) most trainers arent helping anyone do much. If youve never been in a gym, have no idea what youre doing, sure get a PT for a while until you feel confident, if you want the motivation of paying someone to get up and go, sure get a PT. If you have money to burn and like working with a PT, fill your boots but lets not pretend that Dick and Jane who are paying $100 a month for the Goodlife membership NEED a trainer for optimal results. Frankly theyd be better off paying a dietician.

PTs in gyms are annoying as *, the entitlement of grabbing 40 bits of equipment and basically acting like the own the place is a shitty way to behave. As for your suggestions, fine, not everyone can work out at 10pm so * them i guess? Youre more important.

My suggestion to you would be to not take a general comment about PTs being mostly pointless for people outside of motivation so personally. If youre one of the few good ones then its not directed at you.

 

[Kram]

100% agree.

In regards to saying that the person is "cooked", I would take it a step further and say that the PT is also 100% "cooked" as well. I mean if you cant train a client to have the capacity to train successfully on their own say after a maximum of say 10 sessions (by success I mean, reasonably good and safe form) thats a very very poor reflection of the quality of training that the PT is imparting.

A PT will never say this to a client, but ideally if you are watching youtube videos of how to lift, coupled with one on one training, a month (three times a week) is all you need of PT training if you are complete newbie.

I wouldn't mind someone to have a look at stuff like basic form and some broad training methods or ideas a few times but beyond that..

 

[go you pups]

My (completely uneducated and unwarranted) opinion woukd be that 85-90% of people using a pt (especially ones that operate out of a gym) do it for “motivation” as in “I’ve paid for these session upfront and if I don’t go I lose the cash” and that is totally fine, whatever works for you.

If you’ve been training for any reasonable length of time and still have PTs I’d say your cooked and you’ll never establish an intrinsic desire to workout yourself.

Of the remaining 10% I’d say it’s fear of a gym or got bullied into getting sessions when they signed up

* I don’t count pro athletes with trainers or like Hemsworth bulking for Thor

Yep

There's nothing wrong with having a trainer write up maintenance programs to stick to for a macrocycle, then have a weigh in/measurements done etc every 2-3 months and make adjustments to suit or just rock up to group training sessions/bootcamp etc, but for the average person who's experienced around the weights to rely on PTs every single session then you'd have to question their commitment to the cause.

 

[go you pups]

PT's aren't the issue....Bad ones are.

Getting your Cert 3 and 4 quals was the "In" thing to do 10 years ago. Everyone got them and there was a million different courses to get them, a majority of them were online.

Too many 18-24year olds found the cheapest online course to quickly get there quals, to quickly get a job. They then flooded the workforce and gyms were in-turn flooded with poorly trained instructors.

Then instagram blew up, and anyone could stick a needle in there arse, look good in there underwear, gain a bunch of followers and profit from being good at looking good, but having NFI how to properly train the general population and your average punter.

PT's are definitely needed. and you can call this personal bias, as i've been one for over 15 years now and manage a small gym.

There is that much misinformation out there, that your average punter for example actually has no idea how to safely lose weight and maintain a healthy weight range. There are dozens, if not hundreds of fads out there which "guarantee" weight loss for instance which can be confusing and daunting all at the same time.

When i client comes to see me, 95% of the time i teach them how to put themselves in a 15-20% calorie defecit before even picking up a weight, to start there weight loss "Journey" (hate that word lol)


For sure, a vast majority have the mindset "If i pay the extra, then it will force me to go" but most people are just lost, and actually have no idea where to start. Hence the PT. You'd be surprised how many people have never used a gym in there life.

I was part of that be a PT trend, be it a little earlier on, did my quals in 2006, found other work as I was too young at 18, then was encouraged to try again 4 years later, so did a refresher and finally got in the door for a period of time in 2010-11 at 22-23, but my flaws at the time ensured it was only a temporary phase.

From what I knew back then and the dumb gym bro mindset I had back then to what I experienced battling injuries and adversity over the years throughout my mid 20s and gradually becoming very unfit as I did not know how to manage the injuries or the mindset, then finally managing to find a new way after a few hard conversations to begin changing my mindset in 2016 at 28 and begin searching for answers on dealing with the injuries and getting somewhat fit again, to what I've understood now after years of self-observation on my fitness behaviour/methods and observing the way how the commercial gyms I've been part of (mainly as a member) operate plus finding good quality content from good trainers on YouTube and stuff over the last 3-4 years, watching 100s, probably thousands of hours of content over that time has been far more valuable compared to whatever I learnt doing my cert 3s and 4s back then.

I would say to anyone who genuinely wants to become a good PT and help people successfully in some sort of facility, then having a high level of education like an exercise science degree (or doing a heap of cert 4/diploma level courses covering as many bases as possible be it fitness, diet/nutrition, massage/injury prevention, psychology, business/marketing etc) along with taking a client centred, 0-ego mindset is pretty much a must. A bit of sales/marketing/networking knowledge helps too, finding the right people/environment to learn from a big plus also.

 

[go you pups]

Yep

There's nothing wrong with having a trainer write up maintenance programs to stick to for a macrocycle, then have a weigh in/measurements done etc every 2-3 months and make adjustments to suit or just rock up to group training sessions/bootcamp etc, but for the average person who's experienced around the weights to rely on PTs every single session then you'd have to question their commitment to the cause.

I think coming back to this

Your F45 or crossfit gym type workouts are very good in helping beginners/intermediates with direction/motivation to get the workouts in.

You'll have someone wandering around helping out/overseeing the gym floor, but there'll be a whole exercise routine written up on a whiteboard to follow, likely you'll be training in a small group, so others can help out or you can get cues from the more experienced trainers in the group on what to do.

The old gym bro self would've sfellowed at it, but that type of training obviously works for certain individuals, or is what they enjoy doing.

 

[GROTTO]

watching 100s, probably thousands of hours of content over that time has been far more valuable compared to whatever I learnt doing my cert 3s and 4s back then.

Agree.

If the majority of people that sought PT did this, you wouldnt need a PT.

You wouldnt need 1000hrs either.

For the majority of people, plenty of decent content by "fitness experts" on youtube, if you watched just two of them, it would be more than enough and better advice than any PT could ever give you.

Athlean X and Jeff Nippard content is IMO on par and better than most PT's at any gym. Its free and easily available.

 

[GROTTO]

Your F45 or crossfit gym type workouts are very good in helping beginners/intermediates with direction/motivation to get the workouts in

My biggest issues with these and I have seen/watched closely what they do, is that technique is hard to learn and master in short time frame as you move from one exercise to the next.

However, direction and motivation, yes 100% agree.

 

[EasternTiger]

For those of you watching fitness videos, please don't come near me on Monday and hog the chest press machine with these sideways chest presses because you saw Jeff X do them on his channel.

You're not activating s**t doing that and you look like a moron.

Go bury your face in the hack squat machine and do your back to front whatever instead.

 

[go you pups]

My biggest issues with these and I have seen/watched closely what they do, is that technique is hard to learn and master in short time frame as you move from one exercise to the next.

However, direction and motivation, yes 100% agree.

That's one of crossfits main criticisms

The amount of reps you can do in the shortest amount of time = average form at best sometimes, I think what needs to be reinforced here to the novice lifter who is interested in crossfit is that these girls and guys are experienced lifters and have performed thousands of these "poor form" movement patterns over the years, their bodies have adapted to it, newbies just have to get the correct form downpat first before ramping up their game if that's what they want to do.

Anyways, said in the weight training thread, but I'm getting right into kettlebell training last few months, I'm doing one full lower body workout a week now with just the kettlebells (goblet/rack position squats, swings, 1 arm deadlift, cleans etc) and 2 other days on deadlift day and OHP day I will use them as my main accessory movements, heaps of 2 hand swings for deadlift accessories, even upgraded to alternating swings last few weeks and I do kettlebell presses as my main OHP accessory, kettlebell presses gives ya a mad shoulder pump too, don't need to go too heavy, I only use a 12kg competition kettlebell for that, will be a while before I go up to the 16kg for presses, occasionally I'll do a swing clean to a press also if I'm feeling ambitious, will probably try snatches eventually once I feel I've got a good enough swing clean movement pattern downpat, then Turkish get ups might need to buy a pink 8kg bell for that seeing it's a very technical pattern to do. But yeah, it's a pretty humbling piece of equipment.

Now there are some similarities in kettlebell sport to crossfit as you want to get in as many reps in a period of time (long cycle kettlebell sport is how many reps you can do of one particular movement in 10 minutes), however I've noticed the truly elite kettlebell sporters generally have excellent form all the way through and work the leverages better, Denis Vasilev a good example here, that guy is beast.



But yeah, got myself 12s, 16s and 20s, paid a premium and went with Kettlebell Kings as their Australian chain runs out of Albury it looks like and they're far superior to the ones at gym, the gym ones are way too sleek and slippery and have fill inside them, on a muggy/hot day they'd be hard to grip, these Kettlebell Kings ones are hollow one cast and are very accurate, plus the grip is better, so will work my way up the weights over time as I'm fairly new to that game still, though I think anything more than a 32kg bell is pretty excessive. Good fun however, bit of cardio too those long sets.

 

[go you pups]

For those of you watching fitness videos, please don't come near me on Monday and hog the chest press machine with these sideways chest presses because you saw Jeff X do them on his channel.

You're not activating s**t doing that and you look like a moron.

Go bury your face in the hack squat machine and do your back to front whatever instead.

Yeah a bit silly on a chest press that

Something you can do on a functional trainer instead

 

[GROTTO]

For those of you watching fitness videos, please don't come near me on Monday and hog the chest press machine with these sideways chest presses because you saw Jeff X do them on his channel.

You're not activating s**t doing that and you look like a moron.

Go bury your face in the hack squat machine and do your back to front whatever instead.

You want to know the bigger problem with this and what PT's do with newbie clients.

They teach them when on the machines to do one arm/leg at the time, so in reality what this does, is just increase the amount of time each dropkick spends on a machine.

Nothing shits me more than these kind of exercises.

FFS if youre so worried about development not being equal use dumbbells for your exercises.

 

[go you pups]

You want to know the bigger problem with this and what PT's do with newbie clients.

They teach them when on the machines to do one arm/leg at the time, so in reality what this does, is just increase the amount of time each dropkick spends on a machine.

Nothing shits me more than these kind of exercises.

FFS if youre so worried about development not being equal use dumbbells for your exercises.

Yep kettlebells too

I'd say kettlebells are probably best tbf for 1 handed movements