Is Heath Shaw Elite?

[Cousin of Daicos]

Every second kick going out on the full says no.

 

[Slattery_20]

Your best backman IMHO. Elite/A grade etc is hard to judge (moreso for defenders) but I can't remember Shaw's man taking a game apart nor can I remember too many 'down' games in the last 3 or 4 years.

On Mcleod v Enright. Enright's had 3 or 4 gun years. McLeod about 10.

 

[mdc]

On Mcleod v Enright. Enright's had 3 or 4 gun years. McLeod about 10.

McLeod did not have anywhere near 10 gun years as a HBFer, which is what the discussion is about.

 

[The Get Up Kid]

I wouldn't call him elite, no. To be fair I wouldn't call Enright elite either. Goddard is the only current similar player who I would call elite. Perhaps if you were just talking about rebounding defenders he'd be right up there, but even still he's not the clear stand out.

If Enright isn't elite then what is? I wondered what all the hype on him was and the last few years I have watched how damaging he is. I honestly believe he has had 2 best on's so far and maybe a second or third best on but probably won't have polled many votes. He was the key to them winning round 1 against St Kilda.

When you're in a superstar team it's easy to go a little unnoticed.

I think the same with Heath. I have been wondering for a while if we underrate him. Elite is a hard word to define. He does make an unexplainable mistake or two every game but he breaks lines, shuts down opponents and takes marks from opposition kicks.

Call it what you will he is an outstanding player and will be for a few more years. I remember telling my Dad before he'd played a senior game, we've got a guy who could win a brownlow just waiting for a chance. His first game against hawthorn was a ridiculously good effort considering he'd played the day before.

 

[Markfs]

Markfs, I'm gonna be a pain in the arse again, and ask you, as the OP, to define elite, so we are all talking the same stuff.

Otherwise discussion is comparing apples to oranges.

The average definition on the other recent thread re Daisy was probably around top 25 in the AFL.

You happy to go with this?...you say, it's your thread

Swoop, you might have noticed that I posted this after all that crap about Thomas being "elite". Personally, I dont give a rat's arse if he is or not, as long as he maintains his great form. Maybe I should have asked whether he was an "A" grader or a 5th grader?

 

[Ed D]

Every second kick going out on the full says no.

His kicking efficiency is actually quite high. He does seem to kick it out on the full more than others but other than those 1-2 kicks the rest of his disposal is usually really good.

If Enright isn't elite then what is?

You quoted my answer! I already said the only player I would call elite that does/has played a similar position recently is Goddard. Shaw is a gun player but is he a consistent stand out player of the competition?

 

[lozza63]

The thing I think we all love about Heater is that he really turns it on for the "big games"!

 

[Swooop]

Well I'm unable to answer the OP's question because I don't have a working guideline to the definition.

The truism thread did my head in sorry, no more guessing at the intended meaning for me

The thing i most admire about Heath Shaw as a player is that he epitomises everything that I love about Collingwwod, probably more than any other player.

I think Thomas, Maxy, Luke Ball and Harry probably come next.

Every minute he's on the field he gives his absolute all, in a hard working and unpretentious way.

As others have implied, the majority of his work is top class, some ridiculously so, though there's pretty much always one mega-clanger per game to show he's human.

As some would say, ''He bleeds black and white" and that's true.

He's probably top 40 in the AFL, top 5-6 at Collingwood.

Think also he's a great character to have around the club, and besides whatever he does or doesn't do on the field, to have characters like him, on and off the track, just keeps everyone in good humour, not take things too seriously, is invaluable.

 

[Thommo 42]

Not sure if he's elite, but he is the best footballer in Collingwood's defensive half of the ground and has been criminally underrated for years now.

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

I guess we fundamentally disagree then. McLeod was a terrific midfielder in his heyday, but Enright's the better HBFer, and pretty clearly for me. If McLeod played as well against other teams as he did against Collingwood, then it'd be a closer race.

McLeod was a CLEARLY better player than Enright or Shaw in any position. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. We're talking about one of the really good players in his position over the last decade versus one of the best players in any position over that decade. McLeod was a genuine superstar, Enright is not.

That he's quicker and more explosive is nice, but Enright is perfectly good defensively without these advantages. As for the bolded bit, I've never understood this at all. I think people confuse yelling a lot and being aggressive with leadership.

Being more explosive or quicker is "nice?" So Enright's better attributes make him a better player and Shaw's better attributes are "nice?" Also, Shaw is a leader and if you think he is not you should watch him closer. He leads by the example of effort and application he sets, as well as giving excellent direction on the field to the other players.

For example, watch his third quarter in the drawn Grand Final and tell me he is not a leader.

Silly analogies, we were comparing like with like. Is Drummond a better player than Ben Johnson? Is Didak better than Kade Simpson? Is Ablett better than Judd?

It's not a silly analogy at all. It was suggested that because Enright was the best kick in the most skillful team in the league that it was a no contest. My analogy shows that being a better kick does not make you a better player, necessarily.

Positionally for instance. Drummond is a better kick than Enright or Shaw but they are both clearly better players.

Burgoyne is a better kick than Dane Swan, is he a better player?

 

[Snag Breac]

Yes, he's elite. Settled.

 

[jmac70]

Ask Nick Riewoldt.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm a massive fan of Heater and the way he goes about his footy but when rating him across the league in his position it goes Enright then daylight then Shaw and probably daylight to the next best small/ medium rebounding defender. Does that make Shaw elite? Well in his position yes, but in the overall scheme of things probably not because he'd be anywhere from 30-60 when it comes to building a list of best players in the league.

Also Rusler your more than entitled to your opinion but I think your underrating Enright a little. Enright is a triple AA, most likely 4 by the end of 2011, and won a B&F in 2009 (tied with Ablett) playing for a team in the middle of the most dominant 100 game era in AFL history plus he is easily one of the best 10 kicks in the league.

It's no slight to be rated below the guy because he is a deadset gun and probably the best in that specific role since Guy Mckenna.