Is the game too long?

[Kangapirate]

2020 was bad because of the amount of games in Queensland in humid conditions and the ball being a cake of soap.

 

[Roobs321]

I still prefer bo5 tennis, 4 round golf, 5 day test, etc. so I’ll cop that I’m probably not the right person to answer this. Games fly by for me and I have an endurance sporting background.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You just need to look at the tv ratings to see how many AFL fans switch off and don't consume whole games compared to other sports/shows (reach v averages differential).

Simply put, anybody with a wife and family that aren't fully into the game would struggle to consume more than 1 full game per weekend with the length of games these days. It's basically the equivalent of watching a full movie and then slapping on a one hour episode of something straight after, without getting up off the couch for 2.5 hours.

Respectfully, this just reads like you've thrown down some very specific opinions or experiences as factual for everybody.

Where are you getting the ratings breakdown from?

Also, I have a wife who hates footy and 2 kids too young to understand it, but if you have more than 1 television in your house or a smartphone you can consume as much as you want without impacting your family. I would assume 99% of people have that capability, if they choose to utilise it.

The other interesting thing that gets ignored in the 'short attention span' argument is that television programs and movies are seemingly getting longer, not shorter.
3 hour blockbuster movies are common place.
People are binge watching seasons of television programs with individual episodes clocking in over 1 hour.
It's actually at odds with the common belief that everything needs to be shortened to cater to a younger audience.

Music and content from social media creators are certainly becoming more compact, but it doesn't necessarily cross over to sport and other mediums.

 

[Blue1980]

Respectfully, this just reads like you've thrown down some very specific opinions or experiences as factual for everybody.

Where are you getting the ratings breakdown from?

Also, I have a wife who hates footy and 2 kids too young to understand it, but if you have more than 1 television in your house or a smartphone you can consume as much as you want without impacting your family. I would assume 99% of people have that capability, if they choose to utilise it.

The other interesting thing that gets ignored in the 'short attention span' argument is that television programs and movies are seemingly getting longer, not shorter.
3 hour blockbuster movies are common place.
People are binge watching seasons of television programs with individual episodes clocking in over 1 hour.
It's actually at odds with the common belief that everything needs to be shortened to cater to a younger audience.

Music and content from social media creators are certainly becoming more compact, but it doesn't necessarily cross over to sport and other mediums.

And as I said American sports are generally longer than an AFL game and apparently they are the kings of rampant consumerism and fast food as sport mentality.

 

[Bjo187]

Respectfully, this just reads like you've thrown down some very specific opinions or experiences as factual for everybody.

Where are you getting the ratings breakdown from?

Also, I have a wife who hates footy and 2 kids too young to understand it, but if you have more than 1 television in your house or a smartphone you can consume as much as you want without impacting your family. I would assume 99% of people have that capability, if they choose to utilise it.

The other interesting thing that gets ignored in the 'short attention span' argument is that television programs and movies are seemingly getting longer, not shorter.
3 hour blockbuster movies are common place.
People are binge watching seasons of television programs with individual episodes clocking in over 1 hour.
It's actually at odds with the common belief that everything needs to be shortened to cater to a younger audience.

Music and content from social media creators are certainly becoming more compact, but it doesn't necessarily cross over to sport and other mediums.

There is a tv ratings thread on this board, but also, I'll just use last night as an example (below), the AFL generally have the biggest discrepancy between people that tune in (column 1 reach) and people that tune out (column 2 average), of any weekly tv program.

This data helps validate that yes in my own personal experience of friends, family and colleagues at work that have families, that most footy fans typically watch bits and pieces and not full games (other than their own teams game), because it's too time consuming.

I watch full games myself on replay about an hour after it starts, so I can fast forward through all the breaks and dead time, but my mrs is happy doing other stuff. Most guys I know don't have that luxury, so they just watch snippets, maybe the start and end of neutral games.

 

[Blackhawk42]

There is a tv ratings thread on this board, but also, I'll just use last night as an example (below), the AFL generally have the biggest discrepancy between people that tune in (column 1 reach) and people that tune out (column 2 average), of any weekly tv program.

This data helps validate that yes in my own personal experience of friends, family and colleagues at work that have families, that most footy fans typically watch bits and pieces and not full games (other than their own teams game), because it's too time consuming.

I watch full games myself on replay about an hour after it starts, so I can fast forward through all the breaks and dead time, but my mrs is happy doing other stuff. Most guys I know don't have that luxury, so they just watch snippets, maybe the start and end of neutral games.

View attachment 1998880

Thank you for providing the evidence.

I may have a theory, because I'm realising it's what I do myself.

Once I'm on the couch for the night and the kids are in bed I'll usually ensure I have the Kayo stream on, so I'm not seeing commercials.
The channel 7 pre-game is usually a more entertaining watch than the Footy Fox one. Could the switch off be from people converting to Foxtel/Kayo?

Regardless, the broadcasters keep paying up big for the rights, so I'm not sure how concerned they are.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

I don't think the games are too long for the players after increasing the players on the bench from 2 to 4 and now a sub.
As a WCE fan I have found that in the last few years the games seem to have been incredibly long and it would have been so good to have stopped them at half time when we're only 50pts down.

 

[Bjo187]

Thank you for providing the evidence.

I may have a theory, because I'm realising it's what I do myself.

Once I'm on the couch for the night and the kids are in bed I'll usually ensure I have the Kayo stream on, so I'm not seeing commercials.
The channel 7 pre-game is usually a more entertaining watch than the Footy Fox one. Could the switch off be from people converting to Foxtel/Kayo?

Regardless, the broadcasters keep paying up big for the rights, so I'm not sure how concerned they are.

I think that would be very marginal coz foxtel provide their own ratings through set top box, kayo and fox streaming numbers. The longer games are fine for footy heads like you and I, it's the other 75 percent of the audience and potential new fans that find the games too long.

On the American comparison, I've lived in the u.s, with the NFL it's like the cricket, on in the background, but I think these days states only get their own team on fta tv, the rest is paid for cable etc. Oh I dunno, everybody had cable when I lived there anyway, but overall I don't think the length affects people watching their own teams games, it definitely affects people watching neutral games in full though.

 

[Blue1980]

I think that would be very marginal coz foxtel provide their own ratings through set top box, kayo and fox streaming numbers. The longer games are fine for footy heads like you and I, it's the other 75 percent of the audience and potential new fans that find the games too long.

On the American comparison, I've lived in the u.s, with the NFL it's like the cricket, on in the background, but I think these days states only get their own team on fta tv, the rest is paid for cable etc. Oh I dunno, everybody had cable when I lived there anyway, but overall I don't think the length affects people watching their own teams games, it definitely affects people watching neutral games in full though.

For comparisons sake, how different is it for rugby and soccer re people dropping in and out of watching matches

 

[Bjo187]

For comparisons sake, how different is it for rugby and soccer re people dropping in and out of watching matches

Dunno about soccer it doesn't get in the top 30 ratings so no data, but AFL typically has approximately a 75 percent drop off, NRL a much shorter watch, has about a 50 percent drop off.

The AFL typically has 500k or more people tune in on both Thursday and Friday nights though compared to 4 tackles and a kick, despite the b.s outta Sydney about nrl being 'the most watched sport', it doesn't even come close when it's head to head.

 

[Blue1980]

Dunno about soccer it doesn't get in the top 30 ratings so no data, but AFL typically has approximately a 75 percent drop off, NRL a much shorter watch, has about a 50 percent drop off.

The AFL typically has 500k or more people tune in on both Thursday and Friday nights though compared to 4 tackles and a kick, despite the b.s outta Sydney about nrl being 'the most watched sport', it doesn't even come close when it's head to head.

Did we get less drop off in the shortened games? Also are there differences between night games and afternoon games.

Also even with a drop off you’d still have more people watching an afl game than something else.

NRL is a shorter game which is fine but I don’t think we need to follow suit, no one is converting to NRL over AFL based on it being shorter.

NRL way less ratings as no one watches it outside of NSW and QLD.

Storm games may rate ok here but that’s about it.

 

[Bjo187]

Did we get less drop off in the shortened games? Also are there differences between night games and afternoon games.

Also even with a drop off you’d still have more people watching an afl game than something else.

NRL is a shorter game which is fine but I don’t think we need to follow suit, no one is converting to NRL over AFL based on it being shorter.

NRL way less ratings as no one watches it outside of NSW and QLD.

Storm games may rate ok here but that’s about it.

Yes in 2020 the 'average ratings' were the best they've ever been. A combination though of 16 min quarters and lockdowns I assume.

Storm rate terribly in Melbourne too.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Dunno about soccer it doesn't get in the top 30 ratings so no data, but AFL typically has approximately a 75 percent drop off, NRL a much shorter watch, has about a 50 percent drop off.

The AFL typically has 500k or more people tune in on both Thursday and Friday nights though compared to 4 tackles and a kick, despite the b.s outta Sydney about nrl being 'the most watched sport', it doesn't even come close when it's head to head.

How much of that is length of game, that blowouts occur more in Australian Football, or other factors?
If it is finishing related, is that start time or duration?

If the duration needs reducing, get rid of the dead time not the playing time which is the current proposal (by keeping the clock running in dead time like out of bounds, as used to happen with 25 minute quarters).

 

[Bjo187]

How much of that is length of game, that blowouts occur more in Australian Football, or other factors?
If it is finishing related, is that start time or duration?

If the duration needs reducing, get rid of the dead time not the playing time which is the current proposal (by keeping the clock running in dead time like out of bounds, as used to happen with 25 minute quarters).

I have thought that's a possibility, but could never find the statistics on how many boundary throw ins there are per quarter/game on average. I did take note of how long each boundary throw in takes a couple of years ago, it's on average around 15 seconds.

I wouldn't like to see a game like last night decided on by the ball going outta bounds and running down the clock though, so I'd like to see them blow time on in the last 10 min of close games when it goes out, if your suggested rule change was made (like they do in the general field of play).

 

[wilsonmatic]

Slightly too long imo. 18-minute quarters with full time on, and half-time cut to 12 minutes, would take a typical game from about 156 minutes down to 135.

That would be my preference in combination with a number of changes to timeslots enabled by shorter matches.

If I supported North I'd want the game shortened too. Great call.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

I'm not suggesting it, iirc that's part of the AFLPA suggestion; keep the clock running on boundary throw-ins. Which used to happen back with 25 minutes quarters.
The reduction to 20 minute quarters (around 1990 maybe) included adding time on more often, and reduced elapsed quarter length by a couple of minutes at the time. That reduction is presumably gone now; as since then blood rule stoppages, concussion stoppages, score reviews, etc have been added.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm not suggesting it, iirc that's part of the AFLPA suggestion; keep the clock running on boundary throw-ins. Which used to happen back with 25 minutes quarters.
The reduction to 20 minute quarters (around 1990 maybe) included adding time on more often, and reduced elapsed quarter length by a couple of minutes at the time. That reduction is presumably gone now; as since then blood rule stoppages, concussion stoppages, score reviews, etc have been added.

It came in 1994, quarter lengths and scoring went down immediately.

I think around early 2000s they begun blowing time on whenever there was a ball up as opposed to just umpire discretion.

I think that made quarter length comparable from then on minus the time wasting tactics you could do pre 1994.

Scoring lower now than pre 1994 now mainly due to better defensive systems.

 

[hawkman]

If they paid more free kicks especially with holding and HTB around stoppages it would reduce game length. Repeat stoppages are one of the main causes of extended quarters.
Our last quarter last week we played for stoppages for the whole quarter so saw the quarter go nearly 35 minutes despite only 4 goals scored

 

[Cleavy]

the game is clearly too long for Norf. 2nd half fadeouts galore.

 

[caveman72]

Are injuries happening more often in games where they are having to stand around and listen to pre game activities? They warm up in the rooms have a bit of a run then that all goes to waste while the body cools down

 

[situationz]

No. Just no. I don't want glorified AFLX.

If players are really too tired, there's an easy fix. Just remove the interchange cap and/or increase the size of the bench.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I put it to you, that an AFL game should be 4 quarters of 15 minutes (plus time on).

5 on the bench - as many interchanges as you want.

34 game season (ie. Play each other twice both at home and away).

Season length stays the same.

But....the AFL must tighten the rules on HTB, High Contact, Holding the Man and In The Back. The awful modern interpretations of these rules, combined with the strength and speed of the players is what causes injuries.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Are injuries happening more often in games where they are having to stand around and listen to pre game activities? They warm up in the rooms have a bit of a run then that all goes to waste while the body cools down

No, they're happening mostly because of the duress put on the body from the collisions. IMO.

No athletes in the world needs to be both elite at speed and endurance, and also be able to get pummeled over and over again for 2 hours.

Simply - something has to give.


I also chortle to myself when the footy media start scratching their heads every single year as to why there are so many injuries.

 

[Smithdogmaddog]

AFL Tables - 2020 Season Scores

Have a look through some of those scores.
Do we want the game to look like that permanently?

I want the interchange cap slashed drastically and the only way players will agree to it is shorter quarters and then finally players will go back to playing positions and not interchanging all the time to run defensively.

 

[swingdog]

The arguments against cutting don't really stack up.

Shortening it for TV is probably less about the quality of the game and the fact that we consume entertainment differently (e.g. on phone while watching show) and have less time - previously I would have watched neutral games but just don't have time now so just restrict myself to Eagles games. Obviously, in the past two years I've been switching off after 15 minutes.

Shortening it for injuries would only be applicable if you could prove direct correlation. Given that a lot of the cited injuries happen in pre-season, maybe it's more to do with training loads and techniques?