Is the gap too big?

[amer]

Last nights game really was a beauty. It was a tough, aggressive game. I know my fellow Crows supporters and the club don't really like aggressive players but I would love to see a few Adelaide players play "unsociable" football for a change.

For mine it's not a dislike of aggressive players; I love aggressive players, and would hope that we look to bring them in; but there's a difference between hard, uncompromising football and dirty football. Geelong doesn't play dirty football, but their players are uncompromising at the contest and have unrelenting belief in each other. That's the key to success - footballers who don't back off physically or mentally when the pace steps up.

We have a lot of good, hard footballers in our team. But when you chuck a side into a pressure cooker environment against quality opposition, the handful of soft footballers start to stand out and make the overall 22 look more brittle than it is. We saw it last year in the semi final, plenty of blokes up to it, but a core two or three shirked the issue when we needed them to put their hands up and be counted. You just can't have that. The way to move forward is to weed out the shirkers; this means being proactive and putting the likes of Petrenko into a finals series ahead of someone who doesn't want it enough.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

For mine it's not a dislike of aggressive players; I love aggressive players, and would hope that we look to bring them in; but there's a difference between hard, uncompromising football and dirty football. Geelong doesn't play dirty football, but their players are uncompromising at the contest and have unrelenting belief in each other. That's the key to success - footballers who don't back off physically or mentally when the pace steps up.

We have a lot of good, hard footballers in our team. But when you chuck a side into a pressure cooker environment against quality opposition, the handful of soft footballers start to stand out and make the overall 22 look more brittle than it is. We saw it last year in the semi final, plenty of blokes up to it, but a core two or three shirked the issue when we needed them to put their hands up and be counted. You just can't have that. The way to move forward is to weed out the shirkers; this means being proactive and putting the likes of Petrenko into a finals series ahead of someone who doesn't want it enough.

Have we weeded out those shirkers yet? I agree with what you say, especially re Petrenko. He was inspirational last week, alot to work with there.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I really was - and probably still am to a certain extent - a believer too! Like I said in my post: easy first half draw, promising youngsters in Tippett, Walker, Dangerfield, Vince, Mackay; seniors that look like they could still contribute. I thought Geelong might drop back to the field given their personnel loss and perhaps a lack of drive seeing as they've won 2 premierships in 3 years. St Kilda are a funny team... full of potential, but never quite delivering. Thought that might continue (no logic, just a "feeling"). I saw Collingwood as improvers with some clever trading (that elusive ruckman for example); the Bulldogs would have one final tilt after grabbing BBBBazza and Brisbane would either give it a real crack with their bizarre mature aged trading antics pre-season, or fall in a hole. (Looks like the former at this stage, but it's only round 3!).

We lost early games last year, but I could see what Craig was trying to achieve. In fact, I was one of the few that insisted that our main problem was that our players just weren't executing the plan well. When we seemingly changed tack after 8 or so rounds, and looked invincible, the media were all over "Craig's new game plan" when the fact was, it wasn't new, it was finally being executed well.

This year, there's no clear evidence that we are in the same boat as last year. In fact, quite the contrary, we've been flogged and shown absolutely nothing! So it's very hard to get enthusiastic. Like I said though, you hold on to the fact that we've had a horror pre-season injury run and that we are playing severely under-done players - and hope that the season will turn around just as quickly as it looked like disappearing.

Yeah good points. I know they are everyones love child but I just can't see a team with the abysmal Zac Dawson in a key position winning a premiership.

 

[amer]

I really was - and probably still am to a certain extent - a believer too! Like I said in my post: easy first half draw, promising youngsters in Tippett, Walker, Dangerfield, Vince, Mackay; seniors that look like they could still contribute. I thought Geelong might drop back to the field given their personnel loss and perhaps a lack of drive seeing as they've won 2 premierships in 3 years. St Kilda are a funny team... full of potential, but never quite delivering. Thought that might continue (no logic, just a "feeling"). I saw Collingwood as improvers with some clever trading (that elusive ruckman for example); the Bulldogs would have one final tilt after grabbing BBBBazza and Brisbane would either give it a real crack with their bizarre mature aged trading antics pre-season, or fall in a hole. (Looks like the former at this stage, but it's only round 3!).

We lost early games last year, but I could see what Craig was trying to achieve. In fact, I was one of the few that insisted that our main problem was that our players just weren't executing the plan well. When we seemingly changed tack after 8 or so rounds, and looked invincible, the media were all over "Craig's new game plan" when the fact was, it wasn't new, it was finally being executed well.

This year, there's no clear evidence that we are in the same boat as last year. In fact, quite the contrary, we've been flogged and shown absolutely nothing! So it's very hard to get enthusiastic. Like I said though, you hold on to the fact that we've had a horror pre-season injury run and that we are playing severely under-done players - and hope that the season will turn around just as quickly as it looked like disappearing.

We're not that far off at all Jenny, current rubbish form be damned.

We have the best front six in the competition. Tippett, Porplyzia, Knights, Burton, Walker, Dangerfield/take your pick of the resting midfielders and super Pets. There are sides with better individuals, better FF/CHF combos, but no side has as imposing an all-round front six.

All-Australian FB/CHB duo, with our CHB being the best rebounder in his position going around, Johncock is one of the best back pockets in the game, we've got McLeod and Goodwin as multi-AA 300+ gamers spending time in there, that's a good defensive core.

The question hanging over our midfield at present is where the ceiling will be. No doubt there is impressive talent in there - Thompson, Vince, Edwards, Dangerfield, Mackay, Goodwin, VB - but what we're looking for is for someone like Dangerfield, or Mackay; preferably both; to take a step and announce themselves as high quality contributors here and now. We need to find out if that's in them. They deliver, and we have an imposing rotation. Chuck in Symes with his hardness and competitiveness, Petrenko to me looks the goods for a bit-part role in 2010....if we can get that step up from Danger/D-Mac (who for mine look set to provide that), it'll have us around the mark.

Our weakness is the ruck division without question. Maric is solid, hell as a second ruck he's actually pretty decent. But he needs a partner. Our ruck department looked its most convincing when he and Moran had settled as a tandem last year, but Bob is off the selection table until the second half of proceedings in '10. It's probably going to be Sellar who gets the nod when he gets over the hammy, but McKernan has a leap on him. Hawthorn makes do with a working class ruck division, we'll have to do the same.

We shouldn't undersell ourselves, we have a chance this year and unlike our patchwork 07/08 campaigns we have an array of big time talent. There are question marks, but every side has them before they win the damn thing. Geelong had the weight of the world on its shoulders heading into the 07 season, "no real stars through the midfield", "too slow", but stars emerged and they took all before them. No one saw the near all-conquering season coming from St Kilda when they put their 2009 predictions on the table. People asked questions of Sydney in 2005 with their "negative game plan that won't stand up in a finals environment" and "lack of star power", but they answered their critics. No side starts a successful campaign without question marks, many of them significant, unless the proven track record is there. Question marks =/= not good enough.

I get the sense that a few of us take the "miles off the pace" line because we find it easier to stomach the idea that we're not inherently good enough, than to think we're pissing a serious opportunity away. Neil Craig has said, and knows, that we have the talent. I've seen enough to confirm in my mind that we have the talent. Not a question of talent anymore imo, it's quite simply whether our squad is going to step up and make this its year.

 

[Crow-mo]

We have the best front six in the competition. Tippett, Porplyzia, Knights, Burton, Walker, Dangerfield/take your pick of the resting midfielders and super Pets. There are sides with better individuals, better FF/CHF combos, but no side has as imposing an all-round front six.

that is fairly wild and fantastic view. that's nothing like the best six in the league, and its not really very imposing. there's no CHF, no speedy crumbing forward, not enough defensice pressure, unproven talent, some nice small/mid talent, and not enough threat in the air.

Burton has been a fine player, and if fit, still in our best team but he's a 3rd tall/medium marking option.
Porps & Knights are very nice players
Tippett is a good option at FF
Danger 7 Walker are still ultimately unproven, so there outputs aren't there.


suggesting that is the best 6, just ignores what other teams have.

in form, that forward line works. with fast ball movement, and a midfield breaking from the stoppage it can be effective but that's not the same as league best.

All-Australian FB/CHB duo, with our CHB being the best rebounder in his position going around, Johncock is one of the best back pockets in the game, we've got McLeod and Goodwin as multi-AA 300+ gamers spending time in there, that's a good defensive core.

The question hanging over our midfield at present is where the ceiling will be. No doubt there is impressive talent in there - Thompson, Vince, Edwards, Dangerfield, Mackay, Goodwin, VB - but what we're looking for is for someone like Dangerfield, or Mackay; preferably both; to take a step and announce themselves as high quality contributors here and now. We need to find out if that's in them. They deliver, and we have an imposing rotation. Chuck in Symes with his hardness and competitiveness, Petrenko to me looks the goods for a bit-part role in 2010....if we can get that step up from Danger/D-Mac (who for mine look set to provide that), it'll have us around the mark.

Our weakness is the ruck division without question. Maric is solid, hell as a second ruck he's actually pretty decent. But he needs a partner. Our ruck department looked its most convincing when he and Moran had settled as a tandem last year, but Bob is off the selection table until the second half of proceedings in '10. It's probably going to be Sellar who gets the nod when he gets over the hammy, but McKernan has a leap on him. Hawthorn makes do with a working class ruck division, we'll have to do the same.

We shouldn't undersell ourselves, we have a chance this year and unlike our patchwork 07/08 campaigns we have an array of big time talent. There are question marks, but every side has them before they win the damn thing. Geelong had the weight of the world on its shoulders heading into the 07 season, "no real stars through the midfield", "too slow", but stars emerged and they took all before them. No one saw the near all-conquering season coming from St Kilda when they put their 2009 predictions on the table. People asked questions of Sydney in 2005 with their "negative game plan that won't stand up in a finals environment" and "lack of star power", but they answered their critics. No side starts a successful campaign without question marks, many of them significant, unless the proven track record is there. Question marks =/= not good enough.

I get the sense that a few of us take the "miles off the pace" line because we find it easier to stomach the idea that we're not inherently good enough, than to think we're pissing a serious opportunity away. Neil Craig has said, and knows, that we have the talent. I've seen enough to confirm in my mind that we have the talent. Not a question of talent anymore imo, it's quite simply whether our squad is going to step up and make this its year.

this is just an elongated post, that covers all bases. i.e. "all our players are the best because I think so, and if we don't win its because they under performed not because I misjudged them".

a no lose situation surely? they're the most talented, and nothing can prove otherwise because you've setup the underperformed or misused card.

I don't see the point of it.

 

[amer]

this is just an elongated post, that covers all bases. i.e. "all our players are the best because I think so, and if we don't win its because they under performed not because I misjudged them".

a no lose situation surely? they're the most talented, and nothing can prove otherwise because you've setup the underperformed or misused card.

I don't see the point of it.

If you were a wicketkeeper you'd best be checking your gloves, and in turn hands, for holes in them. All our players are the best? Hardly. We house flaws, as do our competitors. Underperformed or misused card? No lose situation? I sincerely hope you've had a skin full of grog. Get your spectacles out, read again, come back wielding comment demonstrative of understanding.

No lose situation...gee whiz. Never has *whoosh* been put to more appropriate use.

 

[Crow-mo]

If you were a wicketkeeper you'd best be checking your gloves, and in turn hands, for holes in them. All our players are the best? Hardly. We house flaws, as do our competitors. Underperformed or misused card? No lose situation? I sincerely hope you've had a skin full of grog. Get your spectacles out, read again, come back wielding comment demonstrative of understanding.

No lose situation...gee whiz. Never has *whoosh* been put to more appropriate use.

my comments stand.

 

[jenny61_99]

We're not that far off at all Jenny, current rubbish form be damned.

We have the best front six in the competition. Tippett, Porplyzia, Knights, Burton, Walker, Dangerfield/take your pick of the resting midfielders and super Pets. There are sides with better individuals, better FF/CHF combos, but no side has as imposing an all-round front six.

I don't think you can say we have the best front six in the competition. We have "potentially" the best six, but it's yet to be proven. Tippy can't seem to hit the side of a barn at the moment, Walker and Dangerfield show promise but are still being inconsistant, we can't get Knights on the park - and when we do, has his stress fracture been fixed or is he playing through it? Will he play a game or two and then drop out (ala VB)? Burton and Porplyzia have certainly shown us nothing at the moment to say they are going to do anything special. They all have potential, but it is yet to be realised at the same time. Of course there's also the small fact that you can have 6 of the best but it means diddly squat if you can't get the ball to them!

All-Australian FB/CHB duo, with our CHB being the best rebounder in his position going around, Johncock is one of the best back pockets in the game, we've got McLeod and Goodwin as multi-AA 300+ gamers spending time in there, that's a good defensive core.

I've been a Rutten detractor for the last few years believing that the loss of Torney and Bassett has exposed him dreadfully. Otten was working brilliantly in that role and then disaster struck. Rutten has one or two good games, however I think he shines when our midfield has control of the game. His game against Bradshaw was lauded as a great game, but in my opinion, the ball just wasn't sent Bradshaw's way a whole lot.

Bock was missing for a long time last year and I haven't seen enough of him this year to conclude whether he is back to his AA best form. Our defence has looked very brittle so far this season and certainly couldn't be classed as one of the best.

The question hanging over our midfield at present is where the ceiling will be. No doubt there is impressive talent in there - Thompson, Vince, Edwards, Dangerfield, Mackay, Goodwin, VB - but what we're looking for is for someone like Dangerfield, or Mackay; preferably both; to take a step and announce themselves as high quality contributors here and now. We need to find out if that's in them. They deliver, and we have an imposing rotation. Chuck in Symes with his hardness and competitiveness, Petrenko to me looks the goods for a bit-part role in 2010....if we can get that step up from Danger/D-Mac (who for mine look set to provide that), it'll have us around the mark.

There's a lot of "ifs" in this paragraph. Our midfield is nothing short of a rabble at the moment - so much so you could almost wonder if Rucci is right. None of them seem terribly interested at the moment, perhaps they are ALL heading to the Gold Coast?? Again, there is a lot of potential - yet to be realised.

Our weakness is the ruck division without question. Maric is solid, hell as a second ruck he's actually pretty decent. But he needs a partner. Our ruck department looked its most convincing when he and Moran had settled as a tandem last year, but Bob is off the selection table until the second half of proceedings in '10. It's probably going to be Sellar who gets the nod when he gets over the hammy, but McKernan has a leap on him. Hawthorn makes do with a working class ruck division, we'll have to do the same.

We've really only had two exceptional ruckmen in our history - Rehn and to a lesser degree, Hudson. All of our other ruckmen have been "working class" - except for maybe Clarke who was best tap ruckman but offered little around the ground. We've managed to be competitive for most of the time despite this fact. I'm not convinced that a world class ruckman will solve all our problems - look at Fremantle with Sandilands.

We shouldn't undersell ourselves, we have a chance this year and unlike our patchwork 07/08 campaigns we have an array of big time talent. There are question marks, but every side has them before they win the damn thing. Geelong had the weight of the world on its shoulders heading into the 07 season, "no real stars through the midfield", "too slow", but stars emerged and they took all before them. No one saw the near all-conquering season coming from St Kilda when they put their 2009 predictions on the table. People asked questions of Sydney in 2005 with their "negative game plan that won't stand up in a finals environment" and "lack of star power", but they answered their critics. No side starts a successful campaign without question marks, many of them significant, unless the proven track record is there. Question marks =/= not good enough.

I get the sense that a few of us take the "miles off the pace" line because we find it easier to stomach the idea that we're not inherently good enough, than to think we're pissing a serious opportunity away. Neil Craig has said, and knows, that we have the talent. I've seen enough to confirm in my mind that we have the talent. Not a question of talent anymore imo, it's quite simply whether our squad is going to step up and make this its year.

I don't think I'm underselling us. I think, given the facts before me, I am being a realist. We have promise - but we aren't showing it at the moment. It could all turn around and pleasantly surprise us, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[kulak]

Have we weeded out those shirkers yet? I agree with what you say, especially re Petrenko. He was inspirational last week, alot to work with there.

We have one as captain, IMO.

 

[amer]

There's a lot of "ifs" in this paragraph. Our midfield is nothing short of a rabble at the moment - so much so you could almost wonder if Rucci is right. None of them seem terribly interested at the moment, perhaps they are ALL heading to the Gold Coast?? Again, there is a lot of potential - yet to be realised.


I don't think I'm underselling us. I think, given the facts before me, I am being a realist. We have promise - but we aren't showing it at the moment. It could all turn around and pleasantly surprise us, we'll just have to wait and see.

Playing like a rabble. Talent-wise, they're right up there. This cannot be denied, and the club should be torn to pieces if they don't get up and perform to standard for the majority of the year.

As far as underselling us goes, realism = acknowledging that we are performing well below the standard we've set. It's not imaginary promise, it's very real performance, real precedent, that has deserted us.

 

[amer]

my comments stand.

Your comments regarding our front six represent difference in opinion, we take that on board and that's fine.

Your other comments? Meaningless; majority of the post flew right over your head.

 

[Crow-mo]

Your comments regarding our front six represent difference in opinion, we take that on board and that's fine.

we?

Your other comments? Meaningless; majority of the post flew right over your head.

lol. sure thing

 

[Crow-mo]

Playing like a rabble. Talent-wise, they're right up there. This cannot be denied

why can it not be denied? because you think so?