Jack Watts

[melbournemartin]

I think that VFL clubs can select 1 affiliated TAC cup player each game or something like that. I can't recall it happening much with any big name draftees recently though. Watts had his Brighton Grammar footy to deal with as well.

 

[Deefolt]

The thing about lack of intensity work ethic etc etc may explain what the footy club has said about him. Not to the extent I don't think but saying he is not going to be an immediate in if he has a good game.

Cheney had an insane game from all reports (mainly cam schwabs Twitter) but none the less. Years past it had been higher pick/stronger performed player gets in teams with average to good game yet lower pick/ lesser well known player has to fight harder for
their spot.

It is either melbourne is changing to be more fair orrr watts has certain needs to train harder etc.

Just a thought

 

[puckled]

Rich and Naita start in WAFL colts and when they were good enough, progessed to the reserves and seniors. Can players in the TAC cup (VFL colts) not do that? Even Trengove was playing in the Sturt 1's.

Exactly, Trengove played SANFL 1sts and is quite clearly playing better games than Scully at the mo'. Players in TAC cup can go no where but the TAC cup.

I'm just going out on a limb here, but seriously what is the point? play the Vic boys in the VFL straight away, like every other state, and the majority will be better for it

 

[Ando727]

Dont get me wrong, I love the Dees and hope he is a star.

I can assure you the information is accurate. I dont sit on here like some and write 20 posts a day talking b.s

Every single person wants to know why Jack Watts isnt playing along side all the other young players in our team all with similar young bodies as him.

The issue is a training issue.

Anyway time will tell hey. As I said, I want him to be a star!

I do worry about the private school types in the AFL. They generally don't have the same level of mongrel in them to intimidate and compete. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but most private school kids have an easier time of it than public school kids or those from blue collar backgrounds. They've generally had people praising them all their lives and had things easier in a material sense.

I hope Jack is not a victim of the upper class lifestyle and that he does have a burning desire to succeed. I won't be convinced until I see him dominate a game and bowl some people over.

 

[omit]

I do worry about the private school types in the AFL. They generally don't have the same level of mongrel in them to intimidate and compete. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but most private school kids have an easier time of it than public school kids or those from blue collar backgrounds. They've generally had people praising them all their lives and had things easier in a material sense.

I hope Jack is not a victim of the upper class lifestyle and that he does have a burning desire to succeed. I won't be convinced until I see him dominate a game and bowl some people over.

Judd
Cotchin
Ablett jr (pretty sure he went to Geelong Grammar, but could be wrong)
Rioli
campbell brown
Scott West
Dustin Fletcher
Vince

Trengove
Tapscott
Strauss

that's just off the top of my head

 

[Demon Revival]

You can add to the list, David Schwarz, Billy Picken, Scully...

Private school upbringing has nothing to do with a players inner desires to achieve on the field, it only allows them a better chance to achieve off the field later in life...

 

[demonfan9]

Exactly, Trengove played SANFL 1sts and is quite clearly playing better games than Scully at the mo'. Players in TAC cup can go no where but the TAC cup.

I'm just going out on a limb here, but seriously what is the point? play the Vic boys in the VFL straight away, like every other state, and the majority will be better for it

I think the draft age should be raised one year. As it currently stands, 18 year old kids have to focus on their VCE studies, TAC Cup and preparing for the draft. They are spoon-fed everything at school and at footy.

However, if they got drafted at 19 then they would have the opportunity to experience the real world a little bit more. Get a job, go to uni, play senior VFL football, and so on.

 

[Ando727]

Judd
Cotchin
Ablett jr (pretty sure he went to Geelong Grammar, but could be wrong)
Rioli
campbell brown
Scott West
Dustin Fletcher
Vince

Trengove
Tapscott
Strauss

that's just off the top of my head

Ok, I'll try to be a bit more precise. I wasn't trying to say just the act of going to a private school is the problem, but what often comes with it. Having a lot of money, doing a lot of other off-field activities, being generally treated like a prince like a lot of people can't be helpful.

If you look at the list above, a lot of those players might have been at a private school, but they were still from more working class stock - especially in terms of mindset. ie. not geniuses anywhere but on the football field. These guys:

Ablett jr
Rioli
campbell brown
Scott West
Dustin Fletcher
Vince

(can't speak for the other guys on that list)

They probably all knew that footy is their best chance of making a go at life. That single mindedness can only help in getting a footballer on the right track.

I think having more options and being undecided about them is one of the things that can derail a promising talent. I'm not just talking about players in the AFL, but many of the more talented school students don't even make it to the draft camp because they aren't sure they want it enough.

By the way, I'm not just making this up. I work at private schools as a teacher and I see it all the time. Some of the very best football players at school don't pursue their gift because they don't know what they want, or they have parents telling them to aim for something more upper-class. Or it can go the other way - everybody wants them to do it except the player himself.

There are a few high achiever types that have a drive to be good at whatever they do, like James Hird, probably Judd. But that is a rare type of person.

It's a complex thing and probably hard to make general rules about, but I have seen one side of it by working in private schools myself. I'm sure there are plenty of things that can derail a talent no matter where you came from though.

 

[master bate]

Ando you are sprouting a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff.

Yes I'm sure it all can be true.

But Watts' parents look to me to not be upper class at all. They look to me to be hard working middle class people who got to were able to afford (although I bet via a sport scholarship they could get their money back in Jack's case) and justify sending their kids to a school that will give them a better chance at getting into the vocation they desired and hopefully make them more hard working and respectful people. That said I really don't want to get into a public v private debate because their is no right answer really.

But I think this is where you went really wrong.

"They probably all knew that footy is their best chance of making a go at life. That single mindedness can only help in getting a footballer on the right track."

I think that is pure bs (like more than BigSexc bs). I think that attitude will get them into football, but at the end of the day every player has to be professional in football. You have to do every training session, eat right, not go out on the piss, study the tapes etc. Personally I think this really benefits footballers with hard working professional parents (who just so happen to send their kids to private schools).

Look at the bad boy list of footballer this year - Matty Stokes (Darwin), Brendan Fevola (Beaconsfield), Troy Taylor, Dan Connors (Echuca).

If Watts has an ego problem, then really its come from him being the big fish in a small pond. He's been an incredibly talented junior athlete and maybe he can't yet cope with really having to work to succeed. But how many small country town "freaks" haven't been able to cope with needing to step up to the big league. A private school up bringing can't be blamed here.

You may be able to say he's not the hardest 19 year old around and that may be due to playing private school footy, but then again their are plenty who did play private school footy and are as hard as nails.

 

[Ando727]

Thanks for all the "bs" compliments, "master bate", appreciated those. You get a friendlier reception on the Adelaide board criticising them!

Anyway, I hope you are right about Jack, time will tell. I used to tutor a young guy who played full back against Jack Watts several times in school football. He told me that Jack was so much taller and more naturally talented than everybody else on the ground, that it all came incredibly easy for him. It was normal for him to kick 10+ goals in a match. He suggested Jack may have created an ago problem in highschool, but I think that would have well and truly been knocked out of him by now. I think he's probably had a big wake up call about how tough it is to make it at the top level. Bailey is giving him an extended run at Casey to see if he can discover his confidence and desire to dominate. Hope he does.

 

[melbournemartin]

I doubt you could blame private schools for the mentality of players. Watson, Judd and Ball are all tough as nails and went to private schools. The only issue I could see would be if APS football prevented players from playing TAC football, with TAC cup football obviously being a higher level.

 

[Pjkimber]

Get him in a boxing with Johno Brown for a couple of months...that will teach him a few lessons.

 

[melbournemartin]

Or McLean

 

[BrownSugar]

You can add to the list, David Schwarz, Billy Picken, Scully...

Private school upbringing has nothing to do with a players inner desires to achieve on the field, it only allows them a better chance to achieve off the field later in life...

It's not the school that gives them a better chance in life, it's their parents' money.

 

[Supermercado]

I never thought I'd see a Melbourne Football Club related board erupting into class warfare against the rich.

 

[JoondalupJ]

How is young Jack Fitzpatrick going. I know his grandad. Well done Dees too .Geez I wish you guys had have beaten those Pies ,well you were the best team on the day.

 

[saj_21]

Thanks for all the "bs" compliments, "master bate", appreciated those. You get a friendlier reception on the Adelaide board criticising them!

Anyway, I hope you are right about Jack, time will tell. I used to tutor a young guy who played full back against Jack Watts several times in school football. He told me that Jack was so much taller and more naturally talented than everybody else on the ground, that it all came incredibly easy for him. It was normal for him to kick 10+ goals in a match. He suggested Jack may have created an ago problem in highschool, but I think that would have well and truly been knocked out of him by now. I think he's probably had a big wake up call about how tough it is to make it at the top level. Bailey is giving him an extended run at Casey to see if he can discover his confidence and desire to dominate. Hope he does.

This the exact reason why KPF players and ruckmen take longer to develop in AFL, as opposed to mid fielders who mostly have an impact early in their careers. The reason being is players like Jack Watts are bigger than their junior opponents and dominating them mainly due to size as opposed to out and out skill.

Now that Jack has stepped up to senior footy whether it be VFL or AFL, there are bigger stronger opponents, he simply cant physically dominate his opponents as he did in juniors, he needs to learn new ways to play good games of footy.

Now on the flip side, takes someone like Jack Grimes, who has probably been the same size since he was 15 or 16. The way he has based his game tyle is not purely on his size, mostly on skill and smarts so even when stepping up to senor footy he can still play the same style of footy at any level and be sucessful.

 

[gbatman]

You guys must be getting annoyed that Watts is playing reserves. Wouldn't it be better for him to develop in the AFL on a half back flank or pocket? For mine, when your side is down the most exciting part is watching new players come through and develop.

I just think there is a place in your side for him on a flank or a pocket. I recon he's better off learning his trade in the big time and giving you guys something more to be excited about.

 

[Major Colvin]

When people speak of Watts "dominating" at under-age level with unbelievable skills are you not reminded of an occasion about 12 years back when we selected Travis Johnstone #1 on the same premise??

 

[Crimson Azure]

When people speak of Watts "dominating" at under-age level with unbelievable skills are you not reminded of an occasion about 12 years back when we selected Travis Johnstone #1 on the same premise??

Who?

That name is not familiar, I do however know of a Grizzly Adams who we traded to the Lions for the soon to be legend Frank Grimes.

 

[Major Colvin]

Who?

That name is not familiar, I do however know of a Grizzly Adams who we traded to the Lions for the soon to be legend Frank Grimes.

True, nothing that landed us the Grimey could be considered a mistake

 

[stiza_007]

Jack Watts News

I was at the game on on Sunday and overheard some girls talking behind me. Young age, and i heard Jack Watts so i listened in. They proceeded to say that when he hurt his back it was quite a pain and so he got on the piss 3-4 times a week and apparently wasn't interested in football anymore.

But then again, shove him into the side and we'll go from there

 

[Rojik of the Arctic]

You guys must be getting annoyed that Watts is playing reserves. Wouldn't it be better for him to develop in the AFL on a half back flank or pocket? For mine, when your side is down the most exciting part is watching new players come through and develop.

I just think there is a place in your side for him on a flank or a pocket. I recon he's better off learning his trade in the big time and giving you guys something more to be excited about.

Normally I would be pretty abrupt with oppositions supporters joining the convos on this board but I think it is a good question that deserves a good answer.

1/ Jack spent last year as a schoolboy footballer who was given a taste of the game last year to show him what he was up against.

2/ Jack is only (iirc) 2 months older than Scully. Fine if you are a mid but not if you are a still building KPF

3/ We are no where near challenging for a serious finals berth so throwing in the deep end right now would help neither him or the club.

4/ We have no forward line in the real sense. He would get a big, tough back every week whereas if he was at Brisbane he would have the third defender. See point 3.

5/ Looking back at point 1 and realising he has had about half of pre-season, and is still growing into his body time is needed.

6/ He is looked at as being a 10+ year player. A couple more months or even the whole year of development is small beer for the potential gain.

7/ He has class enough. He just needs to find out how to use it against men instead of boys.

We picked the kid on the basis that he will be a good - very good - great CHF / FF for us and we won't really know that answer for 2 or so years when he has the muscle to back the talent. But I do know that Jack as the #1 target in the magoos will get more attention at the moment than Jack the third or forth forward in the firsts. He just needs to learn how to play against men and Bails is doing the right thing by forcing him to learn it.

Will he be a Hart, Dermie or Carey? Probably not but if he can - 5 years from now - take the best defender and kick one or two and hand of a couple more each game then I will give him a big tick. If he is better than that then every MFC supporter will talk about him for years.

 

[Rojik of the Arctic]

When people speak of Watts "dominating" at under-age level with unbelievable skills are you not reminded of an occasion about 12 years back when we selected Travis Johnstone #1 on the same premise??

Trapper has more talent in his little toe than most of the guys running around. His problem is in his head. If he played to his ability 18 games out of 22 rather than 3 out of 22 he would have given the Chas a real shake on more than one occasion. Fellas like Woey and Jmac would kill for TJ's skill but they are much better players for using what they have.

 

[Ausyid]

Re: Jack Watts News

I was at the game on on Sunday and overheard some girls talking behind me. Young age, and i heard Jack Watts so i listened in. They proceeded to say that when he hurt his back it was quite a pain and so he got on the piss 3-4 times a week and apparently wasn't interested in football anymore.

But then again, shove him into the side and we'll go from there

1234 the attention you seek