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Jake Carlisle Updates

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Holy crap, that is a savage swipe by Eddie.
 
The AFLPA exist to protect AFL players and AFL players interests.

Look - I fully understand why many supporters are upset about this, but what would you have the AFLPA do?

Come and tell the club he wants to go to about the video, likely nixing a deal between the clubs and ending with the player they exist to represent being stuck at a cesspool of a club, one that he clearly wants out of, likely on lower wages? That would be doing the wrong thing by the player - that, again, they exist to represent - whilst also seriously damaging his future career!

We can be upset by this, but to expect the AFLPA to have come to us and caused serious harm to one of their members is just ludicrous.
 

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SainterHank said:
The AFLPA exist to protect AFL players and AFL players interests.

Look - I fully understand why many supporters are upset about this, but what would you have the AFLPA do?

Come and tell the club he wants to go to about the video, likely nixing a deal between the clubs and ending with the player they exist to represent being stuck at a cesspool of a club, one that he clearly wants out of, likely on lower wages? That would be doing the wrong thing by the player - that, again, they exist to represent - whilst also seriously damaging his future career!

We can be upset by this, but to expect the AFLPA to have come to us and caused serious harm to one of their members is just ludicrous.
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The AFLPA has contributed to Carlilse's reduction in contract amount and public image. I would think this would consist or directly causing harm to one of their members anyway.
 
That is a good spray by Eddie, gave them a fair whack, but I still wish we could get some kind of compo.
It would suck if he cops a ban and at the same time the supporters know we won't get any compo
 
Nutsngum said:
The AFLPA has contributed to Carlilse's reduction in contract amount and public image. I would think this would consist or directly causing harm to one of their members anyway.
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As opposed to letting him rot an Essendon. They were never going to get him off scot-free, but clearly they got him the best deal they could considering the video.
 
SainterHank said:
The AFLPA exist to protect AFL players and AFL players interests.

Look - I fully understand why many supporters are upset about this, but what would you have the AFLPA do?
...
We can be upset by this, but to expect the AFLPA to have come to us and caused serious harm to one of their members is just ludicrous.
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I respect your view on this but disagree. To quote from just about my favourite all time movie, Rounders - 'You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once'.

I agree that the AFLPA is there with the sole purpose to protect player interests. But I'd contend that their duty is to 'players' as a collective. Not every individual player in every individual circumstance. My view is that decisions by AFLPA should be informed by an expectation that they are an 'honest broker' towards other stakeholders (i.e. clubs).

I would have expected the AFLPA to advise McConville that the story / request from ACA was material to trade negotiations and needed to be disclosed. That is all.
 
TheEnsign said:
I respect your view on this but disagree. To quote from just about my favourite all time movie, Rounders - 'You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once'.

I agree that the AFLPA is there with the sole purpose to protect player interests. But I'd contend that their duty is to 'players' as a collective. Not every individual player in every individual circumstance. My view is that decisions by AFLPA should be informed by an expectation that they are an 'honest broker' towards other stakeholders (i.e. clubs).

I would have expected the AFLPA to advise McConville that the story / request from ACA was material to trade negotiations and needed to be disclosed. That is all.
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If players can't feel like they can go to the AFLPA in confidence and get representation and advice that is in their best interest then what's the point in having a Players Association?
 
SainterHank said:
The AFLPA exist to protect AFL players and AFL players interests.

Look - I fully understand why many supporters are upset about this, but what would you have the AFLPA do?

Come and tell the club he wants to go to about the video, likely nixing a deal between the clubs and ending with the player they exist to represent being stuck at a cesspool of a club, one that he clearly wants out of, likely on lower wages? That would be doing the wrong thing by the player - that, again, they exist to represent - whilst also seriously damaging his future career!

We can be upset by this, but to expect the AFLPA to have come to us and caused serious harm to one of their members is just ludicrous.
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But what if by keeping quiet Carlisle signs a contract that is then torn up? How does that help him?

Maybe the AFLPA could've got together with Carlisle, McConville, St Kilda & Essendon; laid everything on the table and allowed a fair and reasonable trade to be made (one where JC earns a bit less and Essendon receives a bit less from St Kilda) Where an amount of damage control can be put into place to assist all parties.

Yes by keeping quiet Jakey gets to agree to a great big shiny pay cheque. But he's not really sitting all that pretty now is he?

And player, manager & union all come out of it looking BAD.


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The AFLPA isn't there to protect the players broader on field interests. It doesn't care if a player plays for a shit team.
 

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SainterHank said:
If players can't feel like they can go to the AFLPA in confidence and get representation and advice that is in their best interest then what's the point in having a Players Association?
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I get what you're saying, I just think this should be tempered by a broader duty to AFL clubs. In this _specific_ case, that broader duty may have led to advising McConville to disclose the ACA approach. We can disagree about it.

It's sort of like, lawyers should absolutely be a tenacious and even fierce advocate for their clients. But they _do_ have broader duties to the court which will sometimes come into conflict with their duty to their clients. Not often, I grant you.
 
I hope Carlisle is penalised contract wise by the club but what ever is taken away from him I would like them to give him the ability to earn them back in stage by stage terms . That gives him the incentive to not be a dick and have something to strive for and not drop his bundle . More carrot less stick maybe ?
 
TheEnsign said:
I get what you're saying, I just think this should be tempered by a broader duty to AFL clubs. In this _specific_ case, that broader duty may have led to advising McConville to disclose the ACA approach. We can disagree about it.

It's sort of like, lawyers should absolutely be a tenacious and even fierce advocate for their clients. But they _do_ have broader duties to the court which will sometimes come into conflict with their duty to their clients. Not often, I grant you.
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The CBA mandates that once appointed by a player the club must deal with the manager in any contract negotiation. Must. No question at all. None.

This being the case, clubs are hamstrung in negotiations as they have no third party advocate, the issue isn't with the AFLPA in this sense, it is with the player manager.

AFLPA advised caution, which is fine, totally expected and no harm no foul because the information was not concrete, it had not broken and it was the manager who approached them so we have no idea what information was supplied to them at the time. As an advocate, the manager acted in poor faith in the negotiations by withholding potentially dangerous information, for his client, for the club, for the industry. I agree with Gil in this sense, crime of conscience.

Strictly speaking, if I am Carlisle, if I have just had my face on national television snorting coke, I'm shaking the hand of my manager and saying "thank you for fine service, unfortunately you are fired" to distance myself from him and "start fresh" from this, after copping whatever whacks we want to do to him to say it's now even and you've got the last chance saloon. Then who knows, 2 years in re-hire him, continue to consult, continue an association. That he hasn't, slightly worrying, apologies are hollow words without sincerity and/or action, and it's such a small thing to change player managers in the context of things.
 
Look, it's pretty bloody simple. The AFL funds and controls every vested interest, even the managers licenses. A gross injustice has happened under the market they control. We paid well over the odds in terms of draft picks traded. So it's up to the AFL whether or not they compensate us for their systems **** up or just leave it. They can do whatever They want with draft picks. Hell, they even banned Sydney from participating for FOLLOWING THE RULES. They can compensate us, they just have to be driven to the point they can't refuse. The big clubs would achieve that, why can't we?
 

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sauce_head said:
The big clubs even got non playing players to be allowed to take to the field at the resumption of a power delay match. Don't be niaeve.
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Then why didn't Carlton get a PP this year? I mean big clubs have all this power so it would make sense they could get a simple PP.
 
SainterHank said:
The AFLPA exist to protect AFL players and AFL players interests.

Look - I fully understand why many supporters are upset about this, but what would you have the AFLPA do?

Come and tell the club he wants to go to about the video, likely nixing a deal between the clubs and ending with the player they exist to represent being stuck at a cesspool of a club, one that he clearly wants out of, likely on lower wages? That would be doing the wrong thing by the player - that, again, they exist to represent - whilst also seriously damaging his future career!

We can be upset by this, but to expect the AFLPA to have come to us and caused serious harm to one of their members is just ludicrous.
Click to expand...

How pissed must Finnis be that there wasn't the sneaky heads up from his old crew. The new guy ( I can't even remember his shit name) is a **** stick of the highest order and is a grand standing do nothing with little credibility.
 
sauce_head said:
Look, it's pretty bloody simple. The AFL funds and controls every vested interest, even the managers licenses. A gross injustice has happened under the market they control. We paid well over the odds in terms of draft picks traded. So it's up to the AFL whether or not they compensate us for their systems **** up or just leave it. They can do whatever They want with draft picks. Hell, they even banned Sydney from participating for FOLLOWING THE RULES. They can compensate us, they just have to be driven to the point they can't refuse. The big clubs would achieve that, why can't we?
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I have heard plenty of calls for the AFL to come in over our heads and give JC a lengthy spell as it's not our place to do it. They are probably letting us handle it as compo for stuffing it up. Someone there would have known something and they covered it up too. We were a sacrificial lamb to help build Essendon. Finnis is a plant by the AFL -we have an insider who will follow the script. It's not necessarily a bad thing because when we choose our own team they **** everything up. We just aren't going to have anyone rock the AFL boat too much. We will accept it in our stride and pretend we don't care because we love Jake.
 

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