Jimmy Bartel - An All Time Great.

[Jhye Clark 13]

Missing games is obviously a factor in determining how valuable a player is. You can't be the most valuable player in the comp if you're sitting in the coaches box.

That's all well and good if the player in question missed the majority of the season. Like I said missing 6 matches, is neither a large portion of the season, or a pre-requisite for nomination. The fact is, his peers currently don't rate him.

Keep trying.

The coaches and players seem to be in agreement on Bartel, they just don't rate him.

Nor do Franklin's peers. I'll ask again, which slice of the cake to you wish to eat?

On Franklin and Hawkins, well the coaches and players again seem to concur here too. Franklin has been nominated as the superior player across their careers.

Again you refuse to listen to the question at hand, conveniently to I might add. Either that or your not educated enough to know what the word current means. What happened 5 years ago is irrelevant in the current scheme of the ratings system, otherwise Hodge would still be AA captain. As it stands, Hawkins is rated by his peers as a better player than Franklin.

Hawkins was deemed more valuable last year, but that would obviously be because Franklin missed more than a quarter of the season . . . so I really don't see what point you think you've made here,

The point i made, and you just agreed, is that Hawkins is currently a better player than Franklin based on their peers estimations. You know 740 sets of eyes overrule 18.

because it looks pretty obvious that the coaches AND players agree with me on both these points.

No mate, the players agree with my logic, hence Franklin not deemed worthy enough in the most recent season.

Twist what around? You haven't provided anything here to give me even a moment's pause. Missing games doesn't become a non-factor just because you want to assume it is.

Exactly what you're doing now and have forever done to prove your fictional statements as fact.

Franklin missing 6 games at the AFL's discretion can't hold Hawkins accountable. 16 Home and Away matches and 3 finals is deemed sufficient enough to win the award, but I won't let facts interfere with your story, so thanks for clarifying. Yes Franklin only played 3 less matches than Hawkins in 2012.

I'll take Hawkins being a superior player to Franklin if you think Bartel's overrated.

You've just been bent over and rammed into obscurity. Thanks for playing.

No further response from me required.

 

[Hodgepodge]

That's all well and good if the player in question missed the majority of the season. Like I said missing 6 matches, is neither a large portion of the season, or a pre-requisite for nomination.

Yes it's a large part of the season, it's over a quarter of it. That won't change just because you want it to.

And why would missing 6 games be a prerequisite for nomination? That doesn't even make sense.

Nor do Franklin's peers.

Of course they do, that's why he had been voted 2nd best player in the competition by his peers.

Again you refuse to listen to the question at hand, conveniently to I might add. Either that or your not educated enough to know what the word current means. What happened 5 years ago is irrelevant in the current scheme of the ratings system

No, not at all. The rating of a player in any given year exists long after he's retired, let alone when he's still playing . . .

The point i made, and you just agreed, is that Hawkins is currently a better player than Franklin based on their peers estimations. You know 740 sets of eyes overrule 18.

No, the point is that Hawkins is only better than Franklin when Franklin isn't playing. That's the only conditions upon which Hawkins has been ahead so far, anyway.

Franklin missing 6 games at the AFL's discretion can't hold Hawkins accountable. 16 Home and Away matches and 3 finals is deemed sufficient enough to win the award, but I won't let facts interfere with your story, so thanks for clarifying. Yes Franklin only played 3 less matches than Hawkins in 2012.

The AFLCA and MVP are season awards, they don't take finals into account . . . you just haven't gotten your story straight here, MD.

I'll take Hawkins being a superior player to Franklin

I'm sure you would.

You've just been bent over and rammed into obscurity.

You're free to fantasise about me as you like, I suppose.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Current, but keep dodging.

Franklin/ Bartel both overrated or Hawkins>>>>>>Franklin.

Which is it, before you decide to eat a slice of cake.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Current, but keep dodging.

Current is 8 votes to 0 in favour of Franklin in the AFLCA award.

If you're referring to last year, that's already been explained by virtue of one player missing a large portion of the season.

Your position on Hawkins being rated on Franklin was already compromised when you didn't even realise the nature of the award and therefore the size of the gap in games played. So at this point you're just trying to back your preconceived opinion into these new set of numbers.

Franklin/ Bartel both overrated or Hawkins>>>>>>Franklin.

Bartel overrated. Hawkins mediocre. Franklin bloody good. MD idiot.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Which is it, answer the question and refrain from deflecting.

MVP is the current indicator, and the obvious one I'm referring to, unless your English skills have conveniently disappeared.......again.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Which is it, answer the question and refrain from deflecting.

How ironic. You're too shellshocked to even quote my posts directly anymore in hope that I will simply drop this argument and you can slink away unnoticed, and I'm the one who's deflecting? It's not going to happen.

Now, which is what? Quote the appropriate sentence so I know what you're referring to. Stop deflecting.

MVP is the current indicator, and the obvious one I'm referring to, unless your English skills have conveniently disappeared.......again.

Wrong again, you said the estimation of their peers, which includes coaches. And you also said CURRENT, which means current.

If you want to talk about last year, well that was already explained by

1. A sizeable difference in games played during the relevant game period.
2. Franklin's superior showing in peer estimation across their respective careers.

Your continual denial of Point 1 shows to me that you're just determined not to evaluate these two forwards on a level playing field. And it's obvious why that is. When assessed over a similar time period, Franklin wins every time.

You also won't address the other point, claiming it's in the past. Well, Tony Lockett is in the past too, it doesn't mean that current players rate Hawkins ahead of Tony Lockett. Past feats are completely relevant in rating any player.

So really it's pretty clear that you are not addressing these two points, and even worse it's pretty clear why. You're not fooling anyone, MD, not even yourself.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Answer the original question and stop your bullshitting and deflection.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Answer the original question and stop your bullshitting and deflection.

I answered your questions mate, you need to answer mine now. That's how dialogue works.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Answer the question without deflection.

Which is it?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Answer the question without deflection.

Which is it?

It's neither. You presented a false dichotomy, which is cute, but I'm way above your cheap fallacies.

Your turn.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I didn't think you could.

Deflection at it's finest.

You see I'm well aware of your turning of the wheel so to speak, and I backed you into a corner with no way to go.

Bad luck mate, you lose.

 

[Mr Magic]

Hi Bay

As you know the greats are judged on finals performances, and more in particular Grand Final performances. Based on Bartel’s Grand Finals it’s safe to say he will go down as one of the all time greats alongside Carey, Ablett Snr & Brereton. Bartel is not only a 3 time premiership player, he is the main reason why Geelong won them. He should have two Norm Smith’s (was robbed in 2009) He's an elite kick, an elite overhead mark, an elite 'thinker' and a wonderful kick for goal and the man you go to in a crisis.

Let's have a quick look at this modern day freak :

2007 – Premium Midfielder of the competition and put out a 28 disposal, 5 tackle and 2 goal game. 145 Supercoach points – The highest on the ground. Freak.


2009 - Received votes in the Norm Smith voting with his 19 posession and get this…16 TACKLE game. Huge influence on the result and can’t be judged by his 19 posessions alone. His defensive role was HUGE. Freak.

2011 - The MAN finally gets his long deserved Norm Smith Medal. Collecting a massive 13 or a possible 15 votes. His 26 disposals and three goals was clearly BOG in an awe inspiring performance which didn’t surprise anyone. Freak.

As you can see James Bartel is indeed one of the all time greats of our great game.That's not for debate but feel free to add your own.

6 years on from his first grand final heroics he is now leading the Inside Footy Votes so far in 2013 after 7 rounds, again not surprising is it?He’s an all time great afterall.

I will bump in September when he wins his 3rd Moral Norm Smith

better than J Selwood at least

 

[Hodgepodge]

I didn't think you could.

Deflection at it's finest.

You see I'm well aware of your turning of the wheel so to speak, and I backed you into a corner with no way to go.

Bad luck mate, you lose.

All you've done is deny yourself into oblivion and refuse to answer questions.

It's a well known defense mechanism, although one of the lesser known.

Fight, Flight, Freeze.

 

[Interceptional]

Geelong Hawthorn.. the minnows rivalry

 

[Cat A]

Does anyone ever wonder where all this gets us?

 

[Interceptional]

Does anyone ever wonder where all this gets us?

Away from the pr0n for a little while

 

[bartel magic]

Does anyone ever wonder where all this gets us?

Whenever I see anyone trying to argue with Hodge Flog, I'm always reminded of the saying : "never get into an argument with an idiot, he'll only drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience"

 

[KardiniaPark]

If shit was music, Podgey would be an orchestra.

 

[11sjw]

If shit was music, Podgey would be an orchestra.

Pretty sure MD would be the wind section in this performance.