JLT Round 2 vs Western Bulldogs

[dlanod]

My argument was changed I was saying that's where I rate him now. It's not wrong it's an opinion.

You might want to go back and re-read the post that was replied to. What has been changed about your argument?

You said you thought we felt obligated to take him, that the Bulldogs forced us took take him earlier than we should have, and that if he wasn't in the academy he would've been a rookie pick. All those can be demonstrated to be incorrect.

A discussion forum is probably not the best place to post if you don't want people to analyse and disagree comments.

 

[pulpdriver]

My argument was changed I was saying that's where I rate him now. It's not wrong it's an opinion.

Since when are opinions infallible from being wrong?

 

[jonnobackpocket]

You might want to go back and re-read the post that was replied to. What has been changed about your argument?

You said you thought we felt obligated to take him, that the Bulldogs forced us took take him earlier than we should have, and that if he wasn't in the academy he would've been a rookie pick. All those can be demonstrated to be incorrect.

A discussion forum is probably not the best place to post if you don't want people to analyse and disagree comments.

I was asked what the relevance of him being in the academy was in relation to him not being on a rookie list. I gave my opinion that I believe he might have ended up a rookie if not in the academy. My original argument was I only rated him above the rookies but not Barrett. I don't think it can be demonstrated to be incorrect the draft has been completed and he got picked up. You can give examples with other players but I was talking about Keayes. I know probably everyone will disagree and that's fine. I am more than happy for people to disagree and analyse my comments. I don't tell people they are wrong, I give an opinion which may contradict what they think. Massive difference.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Since when are opinions infallible from being wrong?

What someone thinks about a player or situation is their personal take on it. It can be disagreed with but it's not wrong.

 

[pulpdriver]

What someone thinks about a player or situation is their personal take on it. It can be disagreed with but it's not wrong.

How about when their personal take is contradicted by a plethora of well informed opinions and facts? Does that opinion still carry equal merit?

 

[Viceregal]

Just finished watching the match - was certainly a different feel to last year!

As others have mentioned I liked Berwick and really hope he has picked up some consistency ... and loved the dumping tackle from Taylor

And that was one of the longest 'not 15's ' I have ever seen!!!

 

[Gadzorks]

Just finished watching the match - was certainly a different feel to last year!

As others have mentioned I liked Berwick and really hope he has picked up some consistency ... and loved the dumping tackle from Taylor

And that was one of the longest 'not 15's ' I have ever seen!!!

watched it this afternoon as well. What I liked in the first half was the quick moving on of the ball at times - super fast handball or ball on the foot. To me that speaks of confidence. It went missing in the 3rd when we fell apart but were a couple that stood out in the 4th.
The pace of the game means that we need the composure and confidence of our seniors so that we have that fast movement. Hope the injury gods are kind this year.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

How about when their personal take is contradicted by a plethora of well informed opinions and facts? Does that opinion still carry equal merit?

It's an opinion mate I don't believe I stated any facts did I? There certainly has not been a plethora of anything involved with this just people with different opinions which I accept. Anyway I have much better ways to spend the rest of my night so you can sleep well knowing "you won" if that's what your chasing.

 

[pulpdriver]

It's an opinion mate I don't believe I stated any facts did I? There certainly has not been a plethora of anything involved with this just people with different opinions which I accept. Anyway I have much better ways to spend the rest of my night so you can sleep well knowing "you won" if that's what your chasing.

I didn't say you stated facts, but many of the posters retorting to you certainly did. You might say there was a plethora of them.

 

[Skoob]

I was asked what the relevance of him being in the academy was in relation to him not being on a rookie list. I gave my opinion that I believe he might have ended up a rookie if not in the academy. My original argument was I only rated him above the rookies but not Barrett. I don't think it can be demonstrated to be incorrect the draft has been completed and he got picked up. You can give examples with other players but I was talking about Keayes. I know probably everyone will disagree and that's fine. I am more than happy for people to disagree and analyse my comments. I don't tell people they are wrong, I give an opinion which may contradict what they think. Massive difference.

No;

If he was not in the academy would be a rookie at best. 2nd year no excuse for dropping chest marks.

Pretty adamant statement right there.
We paid pick 24 for him after the Bulldogs made a bid. For us to match in the 20s, it seems very, very unlikely that A) The Bulldogs would risk taking him just to force us to use 24, and B) That we would waste 24 on what we thought was a rookie option.
To be drafted in the 20s is pretty evident that he would not have slipped through to the rookie draft.
As to your "opinion"; Maybe don't present your opinions as such definitive statements. Given the counter arguments of the last couple of pages, I'd say your opinion on this has most definitely been shown to be wrong. Don't hide behind the "Opinions can't be wrong" rhetoric; They certainly can be.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

If a lot of people rated him higher why did they not pick him? It may be of benefit as it's more likely a player they want will still be there at their pick.

Twomey, Quayle and Landsberger all have decent mail about these type of things, they all had him going slightly prior to where he went. Twomey had a countdown to draft article, where he expected a bid around pick 15.

We were very tactful in that draft, we positioned ourselves in the draft with a bunch of later picks to maximise return, expecting early bid for both Keays and Hipwood. We traded out picks ~17 and 21, if we rated him later, we would have kept those picks, matched Hipwoods bid with 17 and used 21 on another non - acadmey prospect.

There was no benefit to the Bulldogs at all, after picking Schache we owned 5 consecutive picks At the end of the second round/ start of the 3rd round, they had 3 picks prior to our next pick.

I do agree that he needs to be played in the NEAFL and given a good run at playing his preferred role, as in inside Midfield. He may not be the quickest or the greatest of kicks, but the same could be said about Rockliff, Neale, Priddis, even if he doesn't develop like those, plenty of other look like having solid careers Matt Crouch, Armitage, Miles etc

 

[Quigley]

I think after putting so much time into him we feel obligated to take him. If he was playing for a TAC cup side I think we would have held off longer before picking him hopeing he would get through to the rookie draft. The world knew we would take him and the Bulldogs forced our hand.

Keays dominated against TAC opposition.

The Bulldogs rated him in the teens and were surprised he was there. They were sure we would match but they were very happy to take him if we did not.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

My point I may not have made very well was I believe if he was playing TAC cup and not in our academy he would not have stood out and would have went a lot later in the draft. Rookie was prob an exaggeration but too me not incomprehensible. Thanks for the measured response and you make a good point. Much better than you are wrong and don't argue with me because everyone knows my opinion is much more important that yours. In fact I can't even hear you on top of my massive horse I have earnt by being on big footy for so long. Anyway prob time we all moved on.

 

[jonnobackpocket]

Keays dominated against TAC opposition.

The Bulldogs rated him in the teens and were surprised he was there. They were sure we would match but they were very happy to take him if we did not.

Well there you go. Looking at the Vic country and Vic metro midfields that draft year I don't believe he would have started on ball for either of those teams. I will stress my opinion before the pack jumps on and shouts me down. If not playing midfield would he have been selected in those teams at all.? If not he would have gone much later in the draft. The opportunity given by being in our academy distorted his worth in the draft that's what I was trying too get across. I would be interested too see if they would do the same if given the choice again. I just very very underwhelmed given the wraps on him.

 

[chopperduck]

What does the Vic teams have to do with Keays? Players get scouted and drafted on their ability, not the position they play. Keays had exposed form going into his draft year. Being in our academy doesnt make the difference between a rookie pick and a pick in the 20s.

Keays has been developing his game as a defensive forward since being drafted. He is much more of a genuine mid. I have no conerns with his form to date as he is playing a role in the team.

I just dont get how you think 1 specific player can get so over valued by many clubs just from being in our academy. Especially when what normally happens is our players end up dropping down the draft order.

 

[Len S]

What does the Vic teams have to do with Keays? Players get scouted and drafted on their ability, not the position they play. Keays had exposed form going into his draft year. Being in our academy doesnt make the difference between a rookie pick and a pick in the 20s.

Keays has been developing his game as a defensive forward since being drafted. He is much more of a genuine mid. I have no conerns with his form to date as he is playing a role in the team.

I just dont get how you think 1 specific player can get so over valued by many clubs just from being in our academy. Especially when what normally happens is our players end up dropping down the draft order.

My impression of him in the Nationals,was very favourable. He displayed leadership and made good choices.He is not a small forward,and until now,has suffered,,as have all of our young talent , from being in the diabolical situation of the last 3 seasons.Confidence, is going to be the catalyst for their development, and we saw that over recent days.Tom Mitchell ran around in the reserves for a couple of seasons,and had great coaching and mentoring along the way.That helps you'd think.

 

[Nunez]

I don't think anyone would disagree with the statement of: Keays needs time to develop his confidence and inside game in the NEAFL in 2017.

His tackling and pressure around contests is quality - he just needs to develop in the right area whilst building his confidence up. Given who our mids are, he won't get that chance in the firsts.

 

[Caiphus]

Keays is a 2nd year player in a bottom 2 team. He's shown signs and he may even get worse this year. But sure, go ahead and make a call that he will be s**t. Statistically you probably won't be wrong, as a pick 20 he's more likely than not to play less than 100 games. I can only speak for myself but I would prefer a nuanced discussion in his second year rather than hearing your bullshit justifying a pre existing bias.

 

[chopperduck]

I actually think he has done pretty well defensively up forward. Think he goes hard and seems more than happy to sacrifice his own game to do the defensive stuff. He has a good feel for the game so i think hustles well. The experience will only help his game when he transitions into the midfield.

 

[Skoob]

Compared to every other rookie (no I didn't bother checking every other rookie), I'd say a 2 time All Australian under 18 player and champion state div 2 captain, has a better chance than most. If he doesn't improve enough to validate a spot, there is no doubt he was worth a ND pick.

 

[pOleK]

Nice write up by Peter Ryan on Harris Andrews on his match against the Bulldogs

Harris Andrews (Brisbane Lions)
The 20-year-old gangly defender looks to have all the tools to turn into a quality key defender. On Thursday night he gathered 24 possessions, intercepted the opposition on six occasions and used his long arms to spoil the ball 11 times. He has drawn inevitable comparison to Essendon great Dustin Fletcher in the way he plays and he certainly carries the same calmness under pressure that the 400-game champion showed. The most impressive part was the manner in which Andrews fought to address a mistake he made late in the final quarter when it looked as though he had turned the ball over. It showed his competitiveness and poise.

Reading something like this from the point of an outsider fills me with so much hope for the future

 

[lionshine]

 

[royboy2]

Lots of blue and red there

2016

2015

2014

Neither red nor clash being worn this weekend, more consistency from the afl

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Neither red nor clash being worn this weekend, more consistency from the afl

Home kit in Melbourne ?

 

[royboy2]

Home kit in Melbourne ?

Yeah, with an Anzac design