Joe Daniher

[BlueWorld]

Yes, I'm sure they thought no one would notice.

So intra club competitive work is out too?



Doesn't matter where he was, it shows how seriously all clubs take the NAB challenge. The fact that you all have your panties in a bunch over a game that no one has ever given a **** about is hilarious.

Yet your club are organizing non competitive non practice matches for players with a vfl club. If they couldn't care less about pre season games why bother?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The code itself states who it applies to.

http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Respect and Responsibility/AFL Anti-Doping Code 2014.pdf

3. Application of Code

(a) This Code applies to:
(i) Players, whether in or out of competition;
(ii) Clubs and their Officers;
(iii) Officials; and
(iv) any other Person who is required to comply with this Code from time to time.

Given the definition of Players, Clubs and Officers and Person in the code, there is no way it applies to competitions as stated on the webpage you've quoted.

So yes, it's still bullshit. Though bullshit was a tad harsh.

The webpage I have quoted is a pdf that you can download from the AFL itself.

Its title just happens to be called the "National Anti-Doping Code".

So when you say the code does not apply to the competitions as stated, are you telling me the NAD code is wrong?

 

[Magruder]

The number the AFL allowed you too, same as Essendon.

Disingenous answer David. If you have top ups they should be as a direct swap for a specified player and for the duration of the suspension, provisional or otherwise.

 

[Hot tigers]

As someone else said earlier, theres a very good chance that he doesnt have a IN, but thats only a small % of what they took (and EFC do not dispute they took a heap of needles...) He could have had other injections that dont get him an IN that the Dons are wanting to surpress...

 

[BlueWorld]

Agreed, no issue with that. It's just funny that until now clubs have rested who ever they please from pre season games, and no one would has blinked twice about what sort of training they performed.

They didn't raid other leagues for top ups, then leave eligible players out.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

They didn't raid other leagues for top ups, then leave eligible players out.

I guess this is the main gripe here Dave.

Imagine if you were a VFL team and had a player taken out to play for Essendon. He maybe a good player for your team but the 22nd player that was selected for Essendon and he then does an ACL playing for them. Then you found out he didn't really have to play because they had a number of available players they didn't play because they wanted to play them in the simulation game. You'd be very angry, since you now have lost a good player and you also have to pay him for being out for the year.
Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Dave]

The webpage I have quoted is a pdf that you can download from the AFL itself.

Its title just happens to be called the "National Anti-Doping Code".

So when you say the code does not apply to the competitions as stated, are you telling me the NAD code is wrong?

I'm telling you what the AFL anti doping code says. Do you have a link for the pdf, I'd be interested to see it. I'd be more than a little surprised to find the AFL anti doping code applies to the local U9's. I've been a coach for over a decade, and I know none of our clubs players, other than those playing with the Stingrays, have ever complied with section 7 for example, I guess that means we're in breach and liable for bans.

 

[Dave]

Disingenous answer David. If you have top ups they should be as a direct swap for a specified player and for the duration of the suspension, provisional or otherwise.

Take that up with the AFL. We (ie everyone) can only deal with what is, not with what others think it should be.

 

[Dave]

I guess this is the main gripe here Dave.

Imagine if you were a VFL team and had a player taken out to play for Essendon. He maybe a good player for your team but the 22nd player that was selected for Essendon and he then does an ACL playing for them. Then you found out he didn't really have to play because they had a number of available players they didn't play because they wanted to play them in the simulation game. You'd be very angry, since you now have lost a good player and you also have to pay him for being out for the year.
Does that sound reasonable?

Anyone would be pissed off in that situation, but as that hasn't happened yet lets not go all asterix and obelix about the sky falling eh? No one twisted these guys arms and said "You have to go play with Essendon", they all had a choice. And, as pointed out in another thread, and not by an Essendon supporter, VFL clubs raid metro and country clubs for more players than they need and cull them during theIR pre season. I guess the clubs these players get poached from would be pissed off if their players were injured and then cut too, where does it end?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I'm telling you what the AFL anti doping code says. Do you have a link for the pdf, I'd be interested to see it. I'd be more than a little surprised to find the AFL anti doping code applies to the local U9's. I've been a coach for over a decade, and I know none of our clubs players, other than those playing with the Stingrays, have ever complied with section 7 for example, I guess that means we're in breach and liable for bans.

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Schedule 6 - National Anti-Doping Code.pdf

Page 2.

 

[Dave]

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Schedule 6 - National Anti-Doping Code.pdf

Page 2.

That's an older document - not saying you are wrong about it, but if the code does apply to all competitions, then most junior players and clubs are in breach of it, given the following, wouldn't you agree?


(f) Each Club must:
(i) notify its Players that they are liable for selection to provide Samples for
Testing of Doping whether In-Competition or Out-of-Competition;
(ii) educate its Players, Officers and Officials in respect of:
(iii) the dangers and consequences of the use of performance enhancing
substances and to this end will ensure that all such persons attend all drug
awareness or education lectures given by the AFL in conjunction with
ASADA to the Club and will maintain and keep a written record of all such
attendees which will be signed by all attendees and certified by the Club’s
Chief Executive Officer. This record will be provided upon request to the
AFL;
(iv) their respective obligations under this Code; and
(v) the sanctions which are applicable for a breach of this Code.

(g) advise the AFL in writing of all steps, actions and other matters undertaken by it
pursuant to clause 7(f)


6 Note 1: A player is unavailable for Out-of-Competition Testing if and only if the player for a period of 72 hours is not with his team,
not at any of the places specified in the Whereabouts Form previously provided to the Club and does not answer the telephone
when called on the current telephone number specified in the Whereabouts Form previously provided to the Club or respond to any
message from the relevant Anti-Doping Organisation with respect to availability for Out-of-Competition Testing.

Better not go on holiday then ;-)

(o) appoint a Club Liaison Officer whose responsibilities are described in this Code;
(p) ensure that its Players and Club Medical Officers comply with their obligations
under clauses 5(b), 7(d) and 7(e);
(q) upon request, promptly provide to ASADA the names, addresses and telephone
numbers of the Players listed on its Lists;

Not sure we could even do that based on privacy laws.

 

[davis_756]

WTF

why would they specifically single JD out as someone who must not play in the Williamstown hitout because he was eligible for the NAB?

The AFL says Brendon Goddard, Joe Daniher and James Gwilt are not permitted to take part in match simulation today.

“We’ve made it very, very clear for the players who weren’t at Essendon in 2012, they can’t participate in that activity,” AFL football operations manager Mark Evans told the the AFL website on Friday.

“It wasn’t agreed to under those principles. We would have thought if Brendon Goddard was to play any competitive football, then that would be in Morwell.”

Can you please find me where they said Daniher specifically because I can only find mention of Goddard in the quote from the AFL, the afl also said "weren't at Essendon" not "listed players in 2012" Unless there is another article stating specific players names I am taking this as Essendon withdrew Daniher to protect his identity, not the AFL prohibiting him from playing.

 

[The_Wookie]

Yes, I'm sure they thought no one would notice.

So intra club competitive work is out too?

Which part of the Williamstown Football Club is part of the Essendon Football Club?

Doesn't matter where he was, it shows how seriously all clubs take the NAB challenge. The fact that you all have your panties in a bunch over a game that no one has ever given a **** about is hilarious.

The fact that you believe that this is what this is about is a joke.

 

[DapperJong]

Is doesn't mean either. He may be, he may not be.

SCHRODINGAZ ****IN INFRACTION NOTICE

 

[SterlingArcher]

We all agree that JD didn't get an infraction, yeah? Plenty of evidence to suggest he didn't. Some conjecture and guesswork to suggest he did.

So we can move on to the other conversations and topics that have come up in this thread, ok thanks.

 

[Dave]

Which part of the Williamstown Football Club is part of the Essendon Football Club?

What difference does it make who a player trains against? A competitive hit out is a competitive hit out. If it's not ok to train against players from another club, why is ok to train against players from your own club?

The fact that you believe that this is what this is about is a joke.

The faux outage is the joke.

 

[The_Wookie]

Yet your club are organizing non competitive non practice matches for players with a vfl club. If they couldn't care less about pre season games why bother?

What makes this even odder is a scheduled practice match between Essendon (VFL) and Williamstown was cancelled this coming weekend due to a shortage of available Essendon players.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-match-with-williamstown-20150304-13v292.html

 

[Ancient Tiger]

That's an older document - not saying you are wrong about it, but if the code does apply to all competitions, then most junior players and clubs are in breach of it, given the following, wouldn't you agree?


(f) Each Club must:
(i) notify its Players that they are liable for selection to provide Samples for
Testing of Doping whether In-Competition or Out-of-Competition;
(ii) educate its Players, Officers and Officials in respect of:
(iii) the dangers and consequences of the use of performance enhancing
substances and to this end will ensure that all such persons attend all drug
awareness or education lectures given by the AFL in conjunction with
ASADA to the Club and will maintain and keep a written record of all such
attendees which will be signed by all attendees and certified by the Club’s
Chief Executive Officer. This record will be provided upon request to the
AFL;
(iv) their respective obligations under this Code; and
(v) the sanctions which are applicable for a breach of this Code.

(g) advise the AFL in writing of all steps, actions and other matters undertaken by it
pursuant to clause 7(f)


6 Note 1: A player is unavailable for Out-of-Competition Testing if and only if the player for a period of 72 hours is not with his team,
not at any of the places specified in the Whereabouts Form previously provided to the Club and does not answer the telephone
when called on the current telephone number specified in the Whereabouts Form previously provided to the Club or respond to any
message from the relevant Anti-Doping Organisation with respect to availability for Out-of-Competition Testing.

Better not go on holiday then ;-)

(o) appoint a Club Liaison Officer whose responsibilities are described in this Code;
(p) ensure that its Players and Club Medical Officers comply with their obligations
under clauses 5(b), 7(d) and 7(e);
(q) upon request, promptly provide to ASADA the names, addresses and telephone
numbers of the Players listed on its Lists;

Not sure we could even do that based on privacy laws.

Look, I agree that the code does not cater well for all competitions, especially junior ones. In fact, I would say it is impractical in many cases.

But going back to my original statement, I said that the AFL anti doping code covers all players playing Australian Rules Football, even minors. I said that because of page 2 of the code. You said bullshit. I can only reply with what the AFL has stated in their code. I don't think I was "shooting from the hip" with my original statement. Fair?

 

[The_Wookie]

What difference does it make who a player trains against? A competitive hit out is a competitive hit out. If it's not ok to train against players from another club, why is ok to train against players from your own club?

Really? Thats the line your going with? Theres internal trials, which are training sessions, and a world of difference to bringing in another club - that makes it a practice ma... I mean match simulation.

The faux outage is the joke.[/QUOTE]

The fact you think that the outrage is fake is the saddest part of all. Its almost like your club and its supporters have misread the rest of the australian football public for two years.

 

[Dave]

Look, I agree that the code does not cater well for all competitions, especially junior ones. In fact, I would say it is impractical in many cases.

But going back to my original statement, I said that the AFL anti doping code covers all players playing Australian Rules Football, even minors. I said that because of page 2 of the code. You said bullshit. I can only reply with what the AFL has stated in their code. I don't think I was "shooting from the hip" with my original statement. Fair?

Yes.

 

[Dave]

Really? Thats the line your going with? Theres internal trials, which are training sessions, and a world of difference to bringing in another club - that makes it a practice ma... I mean match simulation.

If it had been a full on practice match, fair enough. The fact that it was far more like an internal trial, I mean training session seems to have escaped a few.

The fact you think that the outrage is fake is the saddest part of all. Its almost like your club and its supporters have misread the rest of the australian football public for two years.

No, most of the rest of the "australian football public" couldn't 3/5 th's of SFA about this latest "outrage". It's only the tragics on the HTB who do.

 

[The_Wookie]

If it had been a full on practice match, fair enough. The fact that it was far more like an internal trial, I mean training session seems to have escaped a few.

Right. Of course it wasnt a practice match. It was a match simulation. We get it.

No, most of the rest of the "australian football public" couldn't 3/5 th's of SFA about this latest "outrage". It's only the tragics on the HTB who do.

Your so wrong, but hey why would you take your head out of the sand now.

 

[DapperDon]

Right. Of course it wasnt a practice match. It was a match simulation. We get it.



Your so wrong, but hey why would you take your head out of the sand now.

I love how you feel the HTB line of thinking is what the general public line of thinking is.

If you seriously think people give two 5ths that there was a "practice simulation grand final biggest training game ever known to man oh my god WHY ARE THEY KICKING A FOOTBALLL ARRRRGGGGGGGHHHH" against Willy then you need to stop reading this board and get out more.

 

[Percel]

I love how you feel the HTB line of thinking is what the general public line of thinking is.

If you seriously think people give two 5ths that there was a "practice simulation grand final biggest training game ever known to man oh my god WHY ARE THEY KICKING A FOOTBALLL ARRRRGGGGGGGHHHH" against Willy then you need to stop reading this board and get out more.

Your avatar looks like spaghetti matriciana....

 

[Ambrosia]

Your so wrong, but hey why would you take your head out of the sand now.

No he's not. You seriously think your average footy follower gives a shit about an Essendon & Williamstown training?