John Hinge

[WaynesWorld19]

Mattner is a good player. Not great, not crap but good. A good player doesn't neccessarily mean a good tagger. Massie is also not a tagger and he has been killed a number of times by a quality midfielder.

I mentioned Mattner and Massie because you previously mentioned them as possible taggers and in all honesty Shirley ********s all over them as far as tagging goes. Having said that both are better players than Shirley but not better taggers.

Now hang-on, you have not seen me mention once Mattner in a tagging role since that season where he was so bad in that capacity.

What I was saying was in response to Mattners inability to have a negating role which I took as him having no defensive side to game - this ability to negate or play defensively is part and parcel of any AFL player in todays game being successful.

Mattner has the ability to negate on a HBF where he could play some games this year, can he be a tagger - IMO no bloody way.

As far as Massie, I watched him play at FB on Hall from Sydney on Foxtel yesterday and aquit himself very well. There is absolutely no reason why he could not be a very good tagging option - his place in the team is on a par with Sydneys Kirk who could not get a consistent game for the Swans until given the tagging responsibility.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

A good player doesn't neccessarily mean a good tagger.

Exactly and vice a versa, a good tagger doesn't mean he's a good player.

This is the crux of my argument, this modern day role has been over complicated and hyped up to be more important and requiring greater skills than the reality of the situation.

As stated look at each clubs top 10 best & fairest lists and tell me how good the taggers are doing their job - FFS I could do it

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Shirley lacks a bit of class, he often gets pinged for pushing guys in the back and just doesnt seem to learn from it. Hope thats fixed this yr. he is probably our only option though these other types are either a youngster which i reckon is the way to go, or a mid-aged HBF which is a joke.

I will say right here and now Shirley will not be our full time tagger for the year, another will step up - bookmark it!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Now hang-on, you have not seen me mention once Mattner in a tagging role since that season where he was so bad in that capacity.

What I was saying was in response to Mattners inability to have a negating role which I took as him having no defensive side to game - this ability to negate or play defensively is part and parcel of any AFL player in todays game being successful.

Mattner has the ability to negate on a HBF where he could play some games this year, can he be a tagger - IMO no bloody way.

As far as Massie, I watched him play at FB on Hall from Sydney on Foxtel yesterday and aquit himself very well. There is absolutely no reason why he could not be a very good tagging option - his place in the team is on a par with Sydneys Kirk who could not get a consistent game for the Swans until given the tagging responsibility.

Fair enough RE Mattner

As for Massie, he also played well on Lucas when he was at Carlton BUT he gets beaten by midfielder types. We have tried him on Travi Johnstone in that final against Melbourne and he got murdered. We also tried him on other good midfielders and they had a field day. He lacks something as a tagger. He gets exposed and as such I don't think he is a genuine option.

Apart from Shirley, the only other reasonable option I can see is Torney and he is out until about round 3.

 

[crowsarethebest]

For those people who think we should try youngsters being taggers are stupid because you can't make them a tagger. They will naturally become one if they are taggers or they might be suited for another role. You don't draft taggers. In 2- 3 years time you will know if they will be an attacking midfielder or a defensive midfielder(taggers). Or we can have no taggers and just have attacking midfielders? No problem with that.

 

[macca23]

Fair enough RE Mattner

As for Massie, he also played well on Lucas when he was at Carlton BUT he gets beaten by midfielder types. We have tried him on Travi Johnstone in that final against Melbourne and he got murdered. We also tried him on other good midfielders and they had a field day. He lacks something as a tagger. He gets exposed and as such I don't think he is a genuine option.

Apart from Shirley, the only other reasonable option I can see is Torney and he is out until about round 3.

Correct. He has every other attribute bar one. The necessary pace to keep up with the man he is trying to cut out the game.

As for Torney - nope. He is a genuine traditional HBF.

WW, the very fact that the top line mid-fielders still win Brownlow medals and B&F's only testify how hard the job is, not how easy it is.

Why else would West Coast give a 1st round and 2nd round draft pick for a proven tagger in Stenglein if they were a dime a dozen and so easy to find as you suggest?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Correct. He has every other attribute bar one. The necessary pace to keep up with the man he is trying to cut out the game.

As for Torney - nope. He is a genuine traditional HBF.

WW, the very fact that the top line mid-fielders still win Brownlow medals and B&F's only testify how hard the job is, not how easy it is.

Why else would West Coast give a 1st round and 2nd round draft pick for a proven tagger in Stenglein if they were a dime a dozen and so easy to find as you suggest?

I don't think its pace because Shirley and Stenglein are not quick but they know how to position themselves so they don't allow their opponent to run away from them. Chris Judd would beat Shirley in every sprint by a fair margin but Shirley just sticks to him like a glue and doesn't allow him to run into space or simply doesn't allow him space to use his acceleration.

Brett Kirk is the best tagger IMHO but he lacks foot speed. Still a bloody good player though.

 

[outback jack]

he lacks a bit of class too, stenglein wasnt quick and neither is kirk, but its that class that he's missing. He doesnt have it.

and obviously torney would wouldnt make it as a tagger.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

WW, the very fact that the top line mid-fielders still win Brownlow medals and B&F's only testify how hard the job is, not how easy it is.

OR how successful the club taggers are and consequently how importnat they are to a team.

Put Shirley on Hird and I know who my moneyes on - fitter, faster, smarter, taller - and Shirley is our saviour to stop him

IMO any other option could not produce a worse result.

 

[johnnypanther]

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnypanther
Shirley may be our best established tagger but IMO he's not good enough and if we're aiming to build a premiership side then why waste 1 year of playing (by default!) a mediocre tagger
- i still think we would be better off from the start trying others in the role and finding one (even if it costs us a game or two)
- for example - my best bets are Nye & Hinge (but both are rookies therefore can only develop in the SANFL) but meanwhile I would try anyone! (i'm desperate ) eg Jericho,Schuback,Begley,Van Berlo

The players you mentioned there that are on the senior list are not that good in some of the areas that taggers have to be good at.

I would cringe if we played Schuback or Jericho as taggers. They would get murdered by quarter time.

you're probably correct but the point i was trying to make was - why waste a year of experience using Shirley when we can try somebody else - maybe Schuback & Jericho & whoever else we try will get murdered but until we try them we wont know - to persist playing Shirley IMO is just a continuation of playing mediocrity

i still think myself that Schuback (if he is going to make it) is better suited to a back pocket/tagger role and i think Jericho is better suited to a half back flank/wing role