Coach John Longmire - Part II

What should we do about the coaching situation?


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bungee

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Was at the game. I am generally very cynical of anyone talking about umpiring bias but that was pretty ridiculous.

I don't claim to be any tactical genius, but there was a 10 minute patch in the 1st quarter where we were dominant in the contest. That is obv what Horse prides himself on so I have to give him credit for that. The issue was that as we moved the ball forward of centre, there seemed to be no plan. The player with the ball typically looked hesitant, and ended up bombing it to a 2v2 or worse.

It feels like the sentiment of most Swans fans is that we continue to play a 2004-2012 defensive pressure game plan with players who aren't suited to it, in a league that has moved on and figured out that style. The counter argument is always that we continue to make finals and in fact should have won another flag since 2012.

I always give the professionals the benefit of the doubt. When BT is s**tting on complaining about De Goey going off after kicking a goal, I assume that he is wrong and the Pies coaching staff are right, because they are being paid a lot of money to do it full time, and he is just crapping on about what happened in his day.

So I am honestly loathe to criticise Longmire, given I have never even played AFL at any level. However being at the game, I just didn't understand wtf we were doing going forward. In some ways I hope we have a terrible season and some heat is put on us and Horse, because the way we play has been a true mystery to me the past few years, and I would like someone who knows what they are talking about to explain it to me.

That goal buddy kicked from the boundary was ridiculous. I was in the perfect spot and the moment he gathered it in everyone knew what was going to happen.

I though Blakey looked really good.
Our style has moved on and can be seen when we move the ball sharply and quickly. Unfortunately our players struggle to execute somre pretty basic skills under pressure. Believe me, they are not instructed to hesitate then bang it in long when going forward. Nor are they instructed to drop simple marks or miss goals from right in front.

Blakey needs to be consistently good but that's fine. He'll be up and down for a few more years yet.
 

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The King!

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Our style has moved on and can be seen when we move the ball sharply and quickly. Unfortunately our players struggle to execute somre pretty basic skills under pressure. Believe me, they are not instructed to hesitate then bang it in long when going forward. Nor are they instructed to drop simple marks or miss goals from right in front.

Blakey needs to be consistently good but that's fine. He'll be up and down for a few more years yet.

Bet if they do get it together you will give horse all the credit of course
 

wills2g

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The game plan is old, no doubt about that. But is it a bad game plan? Not sure about that one. I do believe it can still work despite other teams finding success with faster ways of playing the game. The problem: the personnel is all wrong to execute it.

I think game plan is not the problem at the moment. It's just basic playing skills. Dropped marks, missed handballs, missed kicks (but Sydney were never good kickers), and broken tackles. Maybe if those got fixed up, then the game plan can be a topic to be focused on.
 

Kirkswan

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I think you’ll find that it wasn’t only the club supporters but more so the playing group that spoke up in support of Paul Roos to coach our club. No greater example!
I agree with Bloodied52, much easier to stand for Roos as he was there and already employed. Most of these guys have known Horse since they started, he gave at least half of them their first start. Would be very hard to go against him to the board, as despite the rumours on here, everything coming out of the club from past and present players says he is loved.

Bloodied52, mark this day down... we agree, probably for different reasons lol, but we agree!
 

bedford

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No doubt in my mind he will see out his contact. So still next year to go.

Only thing is if crowd attendance goes down , plus memberships.

That’s when the club imo will s**t bricks
Still only get 30,000 first game on our ground , where are these people , if they're not going now they won't go to future games as they're obviously bandwagoners.
 

Opts

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Our style has moved on and can be seen when we move the ball sharply and quickly. Unfortunately our players struggle to execute somre pretty basic skills under pressure. Believe me, they are not instructed to hesitate then bang it in long when going forward. Nor are they instructed to drop simple marks or miss goals from right in front.

Blakey needs to be consistently good but that's fine. He'll be up and down for a few more years yet.
Horse is responsible for coaching those players who drop chest marks and hold up play. He also has the ability to reprimand them or drop them. He therefore takes responsibility for their actions if they are repeated.
 

S120

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Still only get 30,000 first game on our ground , where are these people , if they're not going now they won't go to future games as they're obviously bandwagoners.
The core crowds up here in Sydney have definitely improved over the last 4 or 5 years since Franklin arrived. My estimate prior to that was that you could always count on at least 17/18,000 to show up irrespective of how well the team was going. The real, rusted-on base. I reckon that's probably risen to 23/24,000 now after our good performances over the last handful of years plus the enormous addition of Bud. I think that'll be around about the worst crowds we might see this year if we keep playing this poorly.

There's just too much else on in Sydney. It's insanely competitive to get a crowd to do anything. And because there's so much else on and AFL isn't exactly a life-blood of the state, it breeds fickleness. The bandwagon want to see a winning team or have been encouraged to go on their way to a night out in Paddington or Darlinghurst.
 

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S120

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Yeh I think comparing our crowds to NRL crowds is largely pointless. It's like comparing Storm crowds to Melbourne-based AFL crowds. It's so context-dependent that it doesn't really tell you anything imo. Plus the Swans don't share common areas with most of the NRL clubs. The Swans are largely supported by the eastern suburbs, the city-adjacent inner west, and north shore. Most of the NRL clubs are in the GWS area and their attendances are far more in step with league crowds.

Footy is a sport which is much better viewed live at the ground. League is a sport which you can watch at home very easily and you don't lost much in the experience. Plus the membership tradition of AFL clubs is different to NRL's, historically has encouraged attendance rather than watching from afar.
 

RW

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That all good mate , but why do they sign up and we are not another code. Could it be that we're just plain boring to watch.
Every club has bandwagoners, Richmond has over 100,000 members, yet there were only 70,000 at the MCG on Thursday night. If you factor in Collingwood and MCC members, then half of their "Tiger Army" didn't turn up. If every member showed up to every game you'd need to double the size of the MCG!

And I'm a bit over this argument that we are so boring to watch. It's a outdated game plan but it's been made out of date by the AFL's obsession with making the game more free-flowing. Just about every rule change since we won the 2005 flag has been aimed at penalising defensive teams, with the absurd 100m penalty rule just the latest example. I can't think of any other sporting code in the world where the governing body has it in for one particular team. It's completely ridiculous and none of us should stand for it. Alistair Clarkson's comments about Rampe and coffee with Gil were symptomatic of how corrupt the AFL has become.

Our game style is messy, chaotic, and unpredictable. Yes, it has produced ugly football recently, as our midfield is weak compared to our flag years. You can't get effective inside 50s if your midfield can't win the ball. But it also produced the enthralling contests we saw when we came up against the star-studded West Coast midfields in 2005-06. Before the Roos era, we would never have been able to go head to head with a midfield containing the likes of Ben Cousins and Chris Judd and win. By making everything a contest, we gave ourselves a chance to win games that we otherwise had no right to. Possession counts used to actually mean something when teams played the Swans, as opposition midfielders had to work hard for every stat.

Go ahead and sack Horse, demand changes to the game plan. But if you do, we most likely won't be a contender for a very long time, and the game will be worse off as well, as the AFL will have won, and no-one will be able to stop them from changing the rules as they please.
 

Mick Oxlong

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I agree with Bloodied52, much easier to stand for Roos as he was there and already employed. Most of these guys have known Horse since they started, he gave at least half of them their first start. Would be very hard to go against him to the board, as despite the rumours on here, everything coming out of the club from past and present players says he is loved.

Bloodied52, mark this day down... we agree, probably for different reasons lol, but we agree!
And probably the first time you and I disagree kirky! Go back and read what he wrote, it was about organizational decisions...there was no for and against!
 

Mick Oxlong

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Every club has bandwagoners, Richmond has over 100,000 members, yet there were only 70,000 at the MCG on Thursday night. If you factor in Collingwood and MCC members, then half of their "Tiger Army" didn't turn up. If every member showed up to every game you'd need to double the size of the MCG!

And I'm a bit over this argument that we are so boring to watch. It's a outdated game plan but it's been made out of date by the AFL's obsession with making the game more free-flowing. Just about every rule change since we won the 2005 flag has been aimed at penalising defensive teams, with the absurd 100m penalty rule just the latest example. I can't think of any other sporting code in the world where the governing body has it in for one particular team. It's completely ridiculous and none of us should stand for it. Alistair Clarkson's comments about Rampe and coffee with Gil were symptomatic of how corrupt the AFL has become.

Our game style is messy, chaotic, and unpredictable. Yes, it has produced ugly football recently, as our midfield is weak compared to our flag years. You can't get effective inside 50s if your midfield can't win the ball. But it also produced the enthralling contests we saw when we came up against the star-studded West Coast midfields in 2005-06. Before the Roos era, we would never have been able to go head to head with a midfield containing the likes of Ben Cousins and Chris Judd and win. By making everything a contest, we gave ourselves a chance to win games that we otherwise had no right to. Possession counts used to actually mean something when teams played the Swans, as opposition midfielders had to work hard for every stat.

Go ahead and sack Horse, demand changes to the game plan. But if you do, we most likely won't be a contender for a very long time, and the game will be worse off as well, as the AFL will have won, and no-one will be able to stop them from changing the rules as they please.
And playing this way...we won’t be a contender either. Which direction do you want to go, into the known or the unknown?
 

Mick Oxlong

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Clearly. I'm working on the assumption that Horse is aware of what we need to do to improve.
I don’t think any of us see that. He says it but it doesn’t translate. You’ve seen all the discontent with the way we’ve played over the past years, as a former mod...now how many ‘years’ is that now?
 

Kirkswan

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Still only get 30,000 first game on our ground , where are these people , if they're not going now they won't go to future games as they're obviously bandwagoners.
No mate, they're Sydney-siders! There is no 150 year tradition of going to the game, it's not passed down through the generations, it's a completely new thing to us. And if you have a look around, you'll see that we're getting three to four times as many fans as any other sport in Sydney...
 

bedford

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No mate, they're Sydney-siders! There is no 150 year tradition of going to the game, it's not passed down through the generations, it's a completely new thing to us. And if you have a look around, you'll see that we're getting three to four times as many fans as any other sport in Sydney...
FCS 37 years is surely enough.
 

RW

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I don’t think any of us see that. He says it but it doesn’t translate. You’ve seen all the discontent with the way we’ve played over the past years, as a former mod...now how many ‘years’ is that now?
Well, it's certainly possible that his message is growing stale. I'm just not convinced that some posters' mental pictures of Horse as being stubborn, unable to adapt etc necessarily reflects reality. There is probably some truth behind the discontent with the way we've been playing though. I just think that whoever coaches us, we'll still be fundamentally a defensive team, but with a few changes. As someone posted a couple of pages back: you're never as good or as bad as everyone thinks.
 

Kirkswan

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Yeh I think comparing our crowds to NRL crowds is largely pointless. It's like comparing Storm crowds to Melbourne-based AFL crowds. It's so context-dependent that it doesn't really tell you anything imo. Plus the Swans don't share common areas with most of the NRL clubs. The Swans are largely supported by the eastern suburbs, the city-adjacent inner west, and north shore. Most of the NRL clubs are in the GWS area and their attendances are far more in step with league crowds.

Footy is a sport which is much better viewed live at the ground. League is a sport which you can watch at home very easily and you don't lost much in the experience. Plus the membership tradition of AFL clubs is different to NRL's, historically has encouraged attendance rather than watching from afar.
Where did that demographic come from? Because it doesn't match my lived experience at all...
 

Mick Oxlong

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Well, it's certainly possible that his message is growing stale. I'm just not convinced that some posters' mental pictures of Horse as being stubborn, unable to adapt etc necessarily reflects reality. There is probably some truth behind the discontent with the way we've been playing though. I just think that whoever coaches us, we'll still be fundamentally a defensive team, but with a few changes. As someone posted a couple of pages back: you're never as good or as bad as everyone thinks.
And they were quite right as we certainly have the cattle, in fact, I believe we have a very good list. Here in lies the problem with the subject topic and as a massive Cleveland Browns fan (yeah like Sth Melb and 80’s/90’s Sydney...I didn’t learn my lesson), the Sydney hierarchy could certainly take a leaf out of that organisations current playbook!
 

Mick Oxlong

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No mate, they're Sydney-siders! There is no 150 year tradition of going to the game, it's not passed down through the generations, it's a completely new thing to us. And if you have a look around, you'll see that we're getting three to four times as many fans as any other sport in Sydney...
We should be getting 40-45k to those but from arms length and a healthy conversation with a few last year, the scheduling doesn’t help!
 
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