I was, but couldn't find anything to hitch it to.
Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson
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- Feb 16, 2012
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I got to the bit where he supposedly claimed witches are real and that was enough. These hacks need to try harder.
Is that bad?
- Sep 21, 2004
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- #730
Where is the 730 post Peterson thread on the science board? It's fine if you agree with his political opinions, but let's not pretend he is coming from a place of scientific objectivity.
Science has informed political opinion since the enlightenment. They go hand in hand. So does arguing about th validity of the science.
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- #732
We could definitely do with a Witch-craft/ Wicker thread......Some very interesting history there.
No....He's coming from a placed that incorporates centuries of human self-knowledge & wisdom....Encompassing folklore, religion, philosophy, psychology etc.
Science is for the scientific bored!
- Sep 21, 2004
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- #733
#allegory #metaphorisitsimile
Will I have to watch a 14 hour lecture series to understand the hidden profoundness of this s**t?
"Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.
“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”
It’s a hard one.
“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”
But witches don’t exist, and they don’t live in swamps, I say.
“Yeah, they do. They do exist. They just don’t exist the way you think they exist. They certainly exist. You may say well dragons don’t exist. It’s, like, yes they do — the category predator and the category dragon are the same category. It absolutely exists. It’s a superordinate category. It exists absolutely more than anything else. In fact, it really exists. What exists is not obvious. You say, ‘Well, there’s no such thing as witches.’ Yeah, I know what you mean, but that isn’t what you think when you go see a movie about them. You can’t help but fall into these categories. There’s no escape from them.”
Will I have to watch a 14 hour lecture series to understand the hidden profoundness of this s**t?
"Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.
“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”
It’s a hard one.
“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”
But witches don’t exist, and they don’t live in swamps, I say.
“Yeah, they do. They do exist. They just don’t exist the way you think they exist. They certainly exist. You may say well dragons don’t exist. It’s, like, yes they do — the category predator and the category dragon are the same category. It absolutely exists. It’s a superordinate category. It exists absolutely more than anything else. In fact, it really exists. What exists is not obvious. You say, ‘Well, there’s no such thing as witches.’ Yeah, I know what you mean, but that isn’t what you think when you go see a movie about them. You can’t help but fall into these categories. There’s no escape from them.”
You're smarter than this.
- Feb 24, 2013
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- #735
He's referencing the world of the archetypes there, that informs our psychic make-up from birth.....Something an ancient Greek would know immediately.
All these stories are encapsulated in folk wisdom, that comes down to us via what we nowadays refer to as fairy-tales.
- Feb 6, 2013
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Thoughts on this article?: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Pseudoscience
A lot of the stuff he gets criticised on is incorrect, and motivated by pure partisan politics, but I think the guy is clearly not an infallible guru, and I don't really see any evidence to suggest he is even an extraordinarily informed guy outside of clinical psychology, which is fine, but it seems his 'followers' are similar to Noam Chomsky's devotees where they place him on this unassailable pedestal of intellectual fortitude which isn't really earned in all the fields he talks about (in Chomsky's case see his opinions on Pol Pot).
While oversimplifying philosophy down to "Postmodernism is what Marxists renamed Marxism to trick everybody" or saying "the bodily resurrection of Christ could have happened because who knows what is possible" or the kooky stuff detailed in that article doesn't debunk what he says about archetypes (something that is within his field of expertise), I think it does debunk his internet reputation as a polymath.
On a similar note, just because Linus Pauling was a genius doesn't mean Vitamin C cures cancer.
A lot of the stuff he gets criticised on is incorrect, and motivated by pure partisan politics, but I think the guy is clearly not an infallible guru, and I don't really see any evidence to suggest he is even an extraordinarily informed guy outside of clinical psychology, which is fine, but it seems his 'followers' are similar to Noam Chomsky's devotees where they place him on this unassailable pedestal of intellectual fortitude which isn't really earned in all the fields he talks about (in Chomsky's case see his opinions on Pol Pot).
While oversimplifying philosophy down to "Postmodernism is what Marxists renamed Marxism to trick everybody" or saying "the bodily resurrection of Christ could have happened because who knows what is possible" or the kooky stuff detailed in that article doesn't debunk what he says about archetypes (something that is within his field of expertise), I think it does debunk his internet reputation as a polymath.
On a similar note, just because Linus Pauling was a genius doesn't mean Vitamin C cures cancer.
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Pretty fair and close to how I see it.
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"I found a way to monetise social justice warriors."
Possibly the greatest 9 words a human being has ever spoken.
Not only has he ANNIHILATED HUMILIATED DESTROYED his opponents, he directly profits from their stupidity. The more desperate they get, the more money he makes.
I get a chubby just thinking about it.
How the * does one have the foresight to see a fork in the freedom of speech road, and drill it to the tune of a million books?
As for the rest of you, go clean your rooms.
Possibly the greatest 9 words a human being has ever spoken.
Not only has he ANNIHILATED HUMILIATED DESTROYED his opponents, he directly profits from their stupidity. The more desperate they get, the more money he makes.
I get a chubby just thinking about it.
How the * does one have the foresight to see a fork in the freedom of speech road, and drill it to the tune of a million books?
As for the rest of you, go clean your rooms.
Wow! What a telling riposte. Got a few more words to excoriate the biologist and neuroscientist in similar fashion too? P-P-P-Peterson would be oh-so-proud to have a like minded person on his team.
- Feb 24, 2013
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- #742
I'm not sure what science has to do with the structure of the human psyche & the archetypes.
Not sure that a ruler or a bunson-burner will do the trick there.
Not sure that a ruler or a bunson-burner will do the trick there.
Lol sexist and transphobic... You can't even parody this stuff.
Another searing riposte. I do appreciate the intensity of your defence though. When folk are in search of some meaning and come across a charismatic, persuasive character of unerring conviction he’s bound to gather followers along the way. Not just the ‘dill’ factor but often highly educated folk too. History is littered with ‘em.
I guess it brings into play the age old quandary of the difference between knowledge and wisdom.
Anyhow, I’ve moved from my earlier position of not giving the performer more oxygen. If he gives some meaning to peoples lives while in the process of lining his pockets so be it.
- Jun 30, 2014
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Snake_Baker
The one true King of the North
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I'm genuinely interested if you can produce empirical evidence to the contrary.
Peterson's traction is strengthened due to his opponents currently engaging in little more than hyperbole.
I find his conclusions to be a lot more rigorous than anything else that is on offer.
- Sep 21, 2004
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- #748
When he steps outside his field, he is ridden with hyperbole. I've read some of his stuff (primary), heard some of his stuff. It just strikes me as hokey. Part linguist, part historian, part sociologist, part historian, part theologian. Much of it is sloppy.
And he has genuinely developed a cult of personality around him. There is some weird hero worship going on.
Snake_Baker
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- #749
I'm very interested to see if you can discredit any opinions that he bases on empirical data.
As for the metaphors, they can be extrapolated in many ways.
Yes, but this is not of his doing.
- Sep 21, 2004
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- #750
Peterson is not a figure for debate based upon his use of empirical data. That's one of the hats he tries to wear, but none of it has come up in anything Ive seen or read other than his personality traits explanations. I'd like to see how he defines agreeability or the other ones, but that isn't why he is being debated.
