Recommitted Josh Kelly [re-signed]

[MaddAdam]

Jesus are you a flat earther as well? His management are most definitely speaking to other clubs, there is not a chance in the world you would know they aren't unless you are in fact Paul Connors.


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They may be "speaking" to other clubs. As in other clubs ring and propose talks etc.

But they are only negotiating with North. As in actual proper talks that result in a lengthy and detailed legally binding contract at the end.

 

[Roadto2018]

They may be "speaking" to other clubs. As in other clubs ring and propose talks etc.

But they are only negotiating with North. As in actual proper talks that result in a lengthy and detailed legally binding contract at the end.

Sorry but there is no way you can know that, it's a ridiculous notion and you're straight up daft if you honestly believe that.


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[gillo94]

Gillo you aren't getting a first round pick back with Josh Kelly especially when Carlton is only sending out one.

So Carlton will send out one first round pick for Josh Kelly yet Adelaide will cough up two slightly later first round picks for Bryce Gibbs?

Those upgrades and downgrades are meaningless.

When will you find reality?

You think upgrades not significant which I proposed,

2017 3rd Rd, Pick 60 turns to 40
2017 4th Rd, Pick 80 turns to 61

2018 2nd Rd, Pick 40 turns to 20
2018 3rd Rd, Again pick 60 turns to 40
2018 4th Rd, Again pick 80 turns to 61

On top of that Crows get Bryce Gibbs
Not fair?

Only reason it doesn't phase Blues too much is because of 4 father sons coming to Blues in next 2 seasons.

The pick Blues send out will be a top 3 pick in the draft opposed to a late first round.
Your telling me Blues trading

Top 3 pick and Pick 20 in 2018 draft for
Josh Kelly & Pick 40 in 2018 draft isn't also fair?

 

[MaddAdam]

Sorry but there is no way you can know that, it's a ridiculous notion and you're straight up daft if you honestly believe that.


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You seem to be having difficulty with this. I'm not sure why.

Lots of clubs have been and would still be approaching his management, yes, I agree, to claim otherwise would be stupid.

But AFL contracts, especially one of this nature, are very complex things and require intense negotiation, even when both parties want the same outcome. They take time and attention to detail.

Also, the negotiations often, indeed by definition almost always do, change the terms of any deal from initial proposals.

My understanding is that the negotiating between Kelly's people and North started about a month ago.

Since then we've seen the initial suggestion of 9m over nine years morph into 7.5m over five years. This indicates that 9 over 9 was a classic starting point and we are now willing to alter the deal ... shortening it ... to get it done. That's how negotiating works

I really don't understand why so many people are reacting so ... bizarrely ... to my posts.

Sure, disagree with me, or choose not to believe me, fine. But to so vehemently deny that shot I'm suggesting is even possible is odd.

I have never suggested anything but what would look to me, we're I an outsider looking in, eminently sane:

- North are offering Kelly top dollar, market rate and in reality beyond, to get the deal done. Any suggestion his BFNAAK means we get some sort of discount is utter bullshit.

- We will pay GWS a fair price. Obviously we will look to get the best possible outcome for ourselves, but we aren't trying any shenanigans. It'll be something like pick 3 and pick 21.

- I do not believe he will leave Richmond nor do I claim to have information about Martin coming to North.

- Kelly's management are only engaged in detailed negotiations with North. Of course other clubs will be contacting his management and making offers though.

 

[Dez!]

You think upgrades not significant which I proposed,

2017 3rd Rd, Pick 60 turns to 40
2017 4th Rd, Pick 80 turns to 61

2018 2nd Rd, Pick 40 turns to 20
2018 3rd Rd, Again pick 60 turns to 40
2018 4th Rd, Again pick 80 turns to 61

On top of that Crows get Bryce Gibbs
Not fair?

Only reason it doesn't phase Blues too much is because of 4 father sons coming to Blues in next 2 seasons.

The pick Blues send out will be a top 3 pick in the draft opposed to a late first round.
Your telling me Blues trading

Top 3 pick and Pick 20 in 2018 draft for
Josh Kelly & Pick 40 in 2018 draft isn't also fair?

The upgrades are meaningless.

You don't get a first round pick back if you're trading for Josh Kelly.

 

[Roadto2018]

You seem to be having difficulty with this. I'm not sure why.

Lots of clubs have been and would still be approaching his management, yes, I agree, to claim otherwise would be stupid.

But AFL contracts, especially one of this nature, are very complex things and require intense negotiation, even when both parties want the same outcome. They take time and attention to detail.

Also, the negotiations often, indeed by definition almost always do, change the terms of any deal from initial proposals.

My understanding is that the negotiating between Kelly's people and North started about a month ago.

Since then we've seen the initial suggestion of 9m over nine years morph into 7.5m over five years. This indicates that 9 over 9 was a classic starting point and we are now willing to alter the deal ... shortening it ... to get it done. That's how negotiating works

I really don't understand why so many people are reacting so ... bizarrely ... to my posts.

Sure, disagree with me, or choose not to believe me, fine. But to so vehemently deny that shot I'm suggesting is even possible is odd.

I have never suggested anything but what would look to me, we're I an outsider looking in, eminently sane:

- North are offering Kelly top dollar, market rate and in reality beyond, to get the deal done. Any suggestion his BFNAAK means we get some sort of discount is utter bullshit.

- We will pay GWS a fair price. Obviously we will look to get the best possible outcome for ourselves, but we aren't trying any shenanigans. It'll be something like pick 3 and pick 21.

- I do not believe he will leave Richmond nor do I claim to have information about Martin coming to North.

- Kelly's management are only engaged in detailed negotiations with North. Of course other clubs will be contacting his management and making offers though.

I understand what you're saying, I'm simply strongly denying its legitimacy as unless you are literally joint at the hip to Paul Connors or are actually Paul Connors, there is no way that you could know for a fact that he is only talking to North. Stop trying to sound like a legitimate source breaking news or whatever with this 'my understanding is' crap, you don't know. You simply cannot know what you're claiming to.

 

[tigerwill]

I understand what you're saying, I'm simply strongly denying its legitimacy as unless you are literally joint at the hip to Paul Connors or are actually Paul Connors, there is no way that you could know for a fact that he is only talking to North. Stop trying to sound like a legitimate source breaking news or whatever with this 'my understanding is' crap, you don't know. You simply cannot know what you're claiming to.

I agree. Other clubs have been linked to Kelly. The initial "starting point" of $9mill over 9 years soon reputedly went to $1.5mill per year over 5. A fairly hefty rise. It may suggest other suitors had meaningful talks with Kelly's management.
Any manager worth his salt would keep his players options open, unless there was only one club he wished to go to. Even so, Connors job is to get his client the best deal. If Kelly supposedly is open to returning to Victoria he'd weigh up his prospective club's prospects among other considerations.
Still plenty to play out here. If he stays, if he goes, north or elsewhere. Kelly and Connors probably the only 2 who know for certain, that's if he's actually made any decision

 

[Louis Slungpue]

its really hard to see why anyone would want to go to north melbourne, playing absolutely dreadful football theyll just have to settle for nick suban

 

[Roadto2018]

its really hard to see why anyone would want to go to north melbourne, playing absolutely dreadful football theyll just have to settle for nick suban

Even Suban has turned them down apparently, GMS looking to cash in now.

 

[Rich01]

Even Suban has turned them down apparently, GMS looking to cash in now.

Reckon Miles might go to them if they offered him a stack of cash. Would take their second rounder.

 

[BLERN]

its really hard to see why anyone would want to go to north melbourne, playing absolutely dreadful football theyll just have to settle for nick suban

As opposed to the saints who look just as shit even after several years of rebuilding?

I can see why its a hard decision weighing up good money at 3 terrible clubs. Instead of a pay cut for the chance of a premiership.

Good money at 3 irrelevant clubs vs pay cut for a good chance at a cup

 

[joop]

You think upgrades not significant which I proposed,

2017 3rd Rd, Pick 60 turns to 40
2017 4th Rd, Pick 80 turns to 61

2018 2nd Rd, Pick 40 turns to 20
2018 3rd Rd, Again pick 60 turns to 40
2018 4th Rd, Again pick 80 turns to 61

On top of that Crows get Bryce Gibbs
Not fair?

Only reason it doesn't phase Blues too much is because of 4 father sons coming to Blues in next 2 seasons.

The pick Blues send out will be a top 3 pick in the draft opposed to a late first round.
Your telling me Blues trading

Top 3 pick and Pick 20 in 2018 draft for
Josh Kelly & Pick 40 in 2018 draft isn't also fair?

Jesus Christ you're delusional

 

[Snake_Baker]

Reckon Miles might go to them if they offered him a stack of cash. Would take their second rounder.

You wouldn't have enough money left to match any offers.

3rd round compensation.

 

[joop]

Reckon Miles might go to them if they offered him a stack of cash. Would take their second rounder.

A 2nd rounder (pick 20ish) for Miles?!

 

[gillo94]

Jesus Christ you're delusional

Why?

No one has explained yet why Giants or Crows lose out on the trade

Crows get 5 upgrade picks which each is like a 20 spot difference. Giants get an early and late first round.

 

[Tigerssaints]

cannot see why Kelly or matter of fact Martin going to north or carlton when both of their teams will be playing finals for the next few years
Winning the big one is whats it about, both will be retired long before north/ carlton play in the grand final
look at the saints and richmond , we have build over the last 5 years, and we are attractive to the stars now
definitely a smoke screen from North hierarchy to deflect there poor performances .

 

[bmaurizio]

cannot see why Kelly or matter of fact Martin going to north or carlton when both of their teams will be playing finals for the next few years
Winning the big one is whats it about, both will be retired long before north/ carlton play in the grand final
look at the saints and richmond , we have build over the last 5 years, and we are attractive to the stars now
definitely a smoke screen from North hierarchy to deflect there poor performances .

CFC is a more attractive destination now, brand is being refreshed.
An iconic team with a proud and prominent historical importance , loaded with high draft picks and plenty of cash to splash, a good destination as any, one would think , elite talent will come to CFC I'm confident.

 

[Rich01]

You wouldn't have enough money left to match any offers.

3rd round compensation.

There's a few clubs interested. Sydney mentioned. At his age he will take the money and we will probably need to let him go.

Would be a good for north. Straight into their starting midfield.

Pick 20 probably too much. Norths third more likely.

 

[J_Rod]

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[joop]

Why?

No one has explained yet why Giants or Crows lose out on the trade

Crows get 5 upgrade picks which each is like a 20 spot difference. Giants get an early and late first round.

So Carlton give up Pick 3 and Gibbs, and get Josh Kelly, Pick 17/18 and GWS 2nd rounder?
Do you really struggle to see how idiotic that is?

Josh Kelly will cost you pick 3 and your first next year.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Josh Kelly will cost you pick 3 and your first next year.

Carltons lack of a decent second round pick would likely see that occur, in the event of a Kelly/Carlton trade.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Carltons lack of a decent second round pick would likely see that occur, in the event of a Kelly/Carlton trade.

No way is Carlton trading two top 3 picks even for Kelly. Would have to include Hopper or some hefty change.

It'll be our 2017 1st (~2) and the pick we trade Gibbs for (~16). Which is fair.

 

[tigerwill]

There is plenty to play out. Trade week hasn't started yet. Saying Carlton haven't too many options is manifestly premature.
Casboult could go via RFA, earning Carlton a afl compo pick, one of their young kpp may be sacrificed for at least a 2nd rounder if Kelly was the prize. They could bundle up the Casboult 2nd/3rd rounder and a young kpp to upgrade a pick.
If Gibbs is allowed to walk to the crows you'd expect carlton to get a decent pick for him.
Carlton have plenty of cap room, SOS still has the contacts at GWS and no doubt knows Kelly on a personal level. Plenty of ex GWS teammates at Carlton for him to make it an easier transition.
A young, promising list, history, tradition, facilities, big games, business opportunities post career etc.
A lot of things north lack.
There are other considerations, not just a massive contract. If north sell the farm pick wise for Kelly, where does their improvement come from?
I can see why Carlton would be a strong contender for Kelly's services.

 

[gillo94]

So Carlton give up Pick 3 and Gibbs, and get Josh Kelly, Pick 17/18 and GWS 2nd rounder?
Do you really struggle to see how idiotic that is?

Josh Kelly will cost you pick 3 and your first next year.

No obviously you didn't read what I had before, Blues give up more; lll put down what each time Gains and loses as it's a lot of picks involved;

CROWS RECIEVE;

Bryce Gibbs

Blues 2017 3rd Rd Pick (upgrade) [est 40]
Blues 2017 4th Rd Pick (upgrade) [est 60]

Blues 2018 2nd Rd Pick (upgrade) [est 20]
Blues 2018 3rd Rd Pick (upgrade) [est 40]
Blues 2018 4th Rd Pick (upgrade) [est 60]

GIANTS RECIEVE;

Blues 2017 First Rd Pick [estimate top 3 pick]
Adelaide 2018 First Rd Pick [est late teen pick]

BLUES RECIEVE;

Josh Kelly

Adelaide 2017 1st Rd Pick [est late teen pick]
Adelaide 2017 3rd Rd Pick (downgrade) [60]
Adelaide 2017 4th Rd Pick (downgrade) [80]

Adelaide 2018 2nd Rd Pick (downgrade) [40]
Adelaide 2018 3rd Rd Pick (downgrade) [60]
Adelaide 2018 4th Rd Pick (downgrade) [80]

GWS 2018 2nd Round Pick [est 40]


From above proposal

Blues gain still a late teen pick & get Josh Kelly
Blues downgrade big time on 5 picks included future second round. But as mentioned many times we have 4 father sons in next 2 drafts so both downgrades won't hurt
2017 Liam Hickmott son of Adrien
2018 Ben Silvagni son of Stephen
2018 Will Hickmott son of Adrien
2018 Oskar Manton son of Glenn

Crows lose 2 First round picks.
Crows gain Bryce Gibbs who is still contracted two years so need pay slight overs. Crows gain big time on upgrades 5 picks of 20 spot gains. If Crows get a late teen first round and Blues finish close to bottom not much of a downgrade is it for 2018 draft.

GWS lose Josh Kelly former pick 2 and would give up late pick in 40's but would get a future top 2-4 pick back and an early second round in the 20's. They would get what they paid in the draft back.

 

[Louis Slungpue]

As opposed to the saints who look just as shit even after several years of rebuilding?

I can see why its a hard decision weighing up good money at 3 terrible clubs. Instead of a pay cut for the chance of a premiership.

Good money at 3 irrelevant clubs vs pay cut for a good chance at a cup

did look shit when we gaped your plastic asses, 3 irrelevant clubs? you plastic campaigners have 5 fans lmao