Judd vs. Kouta

[TNBT]

This idea came to me yesterday when I was thinking about Carlton history, so I figured I would ask the question here and see what you guys (and girls) think. Compare Kouta in his prime to Chris Judd. How do the two compare? How do you rate the two of them?

 

[Tazwegian]

They don't compare. Judd is probably the best player in AFL history, Kouta was an outstanding player in his prime, but his prime was short, and his prime wasn't as good as Judd's.

 

[40yearBLUE]

They don't compare. Judd is probably the best player in AFL history, Kouta was an outstanding player in his prime, but his prime was short, and his prime wasn't as good as Judd's.

His prime may have been short but to claim it was not as good as Judds is a big call.

At his very best, Kouta had no peer. In the same game he would be extracting the pill from packs one handed and tearing off with it racking up a 30 plus game, taking big marks in the forward line and slotting a lazy 3 AND taking huge saving marks accross half back and turning back opposition attacks not once but many times, all in the same game. And a final at that.

No you cant compare them, but there is no way Kouta pales by comparison.

 

[Dramoth]

They don't compare. Judd is probably the best player in AFL history, Kouta was an outstanding player in his prime, but his prime was short, and his prime wasn't as good as Judd's.

Kouta was the prototype modern AFL player.

He could rip a game apart on his own from any position on the ground... including the ruck.

If Kouta hadnt been injured in 2000, we would probably had done better in the finals that year. He should have won the Brownlow in 2000

Judd is possibly the best ever midfielder to play the game, but he hasnt had the impact that Kouta had.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Yes I had forgotten that Kouta has also played ruck (and not just that he once contested a tap, he actually started ruck in the middle).

So here we have a player that could play, not just theoretically but actually, could play any position on the ground from genuine marking full forward to full back, Ruck, ruck-rover (midfield) or any position in between and not be out of place. Any position. And as you say Dram, rip the game apart from that spot.

How many players in the history of the game could you genuinely say that about?

 

[AlecDuncan]

Kouta's best was better than anyone's. Our streak in 2000 was primarily built on his utter domination that year.

 

[Sin City]

Kouta in 2000 is still the best footy I've seen anyone play. Had a few other great years too but outside of 2000 I'd say Judd has him covered.

 

[gbatman]

I'v never seen a player have dominance and influence over games as consistantly as Kouta in 2000. Hird, Carey and Judd come very close but this guy was not just beating teams but flogging them off his own boot and when he went down so did we.

 

[Tazwegian]

Hird, Carey and Judd come very close but this guy was not just beating teams but flogging them off his own boot and when he went down so did we.

Look at what happened to West Coast the year after they lost Judd! Fair enough, they also lost Cousins at the same time, but they went from GF favourites, to number-making minnows. A pretty big turnaround.

I think he has played his absolute best at West Coast, even though he has dominated for Carlton this year. I remember reading somewhere that in one of his West Coast years, he had an astoundingly high kicking efficiency that is unlikely to ever be beaten. I am trying to find the source.

But, he was a different kind of midfielder back then, more of an outside player, now he is Carlton's engine room, he finds his own ball, wins clearances, and kicks goals. I rate him as the best I have seen! Kouta may have been good in 2000, and he may have been versatile, but Judd is the best at what he does and has been for a very long time.

 

[Monkey King]

Ignoring season 2000, Judd's already got Kouta pretty easily covered.

Still, Kouta gets a rough deal from most with claims he only played one good season. Kouta had a great 95' season and 96' wasn't too bad either. Being played out of position by Parkin - who deserves a lot of criticism for that IMO - and caring for his dying father pretty much wiped out his 97-98' seasons.

In 99' he re-emerged with that stunning PF performance and then took footy by storm in 2000, better than anyone would have suspected. His games that year were among the most dominant I've seen, doing things I haven't seen any other player capable of.

After knee injuries that I believe involved ACL, PCL and medial and lateral ligament combos on both knees; he reinvented himself as one of the games best clearance players, which really does require champion qualities.

 

[wavefall21]

I would also have to say that Kouta's year in 2000 was close to the best I have ever seen by an individual player, he would do everything, take crucal marks, rack up the touches, kick vital goals, he was the complete player

The difference is Judd's best has been more consistent for longer, maybe that was due to the knee injuries Kouta copped late in his career

BOth are hard to separate at their absolute best

Juddy has the explosiveness and Kouta had the one handed take-away, both were/are freaks

 

[Sin City]

Kouta may have been good in 2000, and he may have been versatile, but Judd is the best at what he does and has been for a very long time.

Did you see Kouta play in 2000, Tazwegian?

 

[bluepride]

Kouta in 2000 was something special, shame injuries took him down and he was never the same.

When both Judds shoulder and groins were stuffed (I know its not the same as a knee), he managed to find a different way to dominate and win another Brownlow.

I have the question confused though, is it comparing both in their prime or both their careers.

Koutas spurt in 2000 to some extent nearly revolutionised the game, however Judd's prime went for a bit longer and will problaby edge him when we look back at the end of his career.

Judd by fingernail, but to say Kouta pales in comparison is wrong.

 

[Sin City]

Compare Kouta in his prime to Chris Judd.

I have the question confused though, is it comparing both in their prime or both their careers.

 

[bluepride]

I knew someone with not much to say would say this.

Just that others are talking about his career and I though he might be comparing both. Title is a bit misleading as well.

Carry on.

 

[Sin City]

I knew someone with not much to say would say this.

Feel free to read the OP in future, it's a dead giveaway.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Fair go Sin, he is on an iPhone.

 

[bluepride]

Feel free to read the OP in future, it's a dead giveaway.

Not really, I only like reading my opinions .



Judds prime > Koutas prime.

 

[Sin City]

Not really, I only like reading my opinions .

Ah you've mislead me again, I thought it was all straight from the mouths of Carlton legends.

 

[bluepride]

Ah you've mislead me again, I thought it was all straight from the mouths of Carlton legends.

They are, but sometimes I like passing them as my own.

We used to be friend Sin .

 

[The Toad]

I knew someone with not much to say would say this.

Just that others are talking about his career and I though he might be comparing both. Title is a bit misleading as well.

Carry on.

We used to be friend Sin .

Might want to stop with the smart arse comments then, hey.

 

[Sin City]

This thread's reminded me of that first game Kouta had in his run of outstanding form in 2000, against Richmond when he was reaching over the top of blokes to take the ball and race off on them. Unbelievable stuff.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Although Diesels 5 goals and undoubted brilliance and 30 odd touches, I had Kouta very close to bog on GF day 95. Its a big call but he was outstanding that day, but clearly for me the best quarter of individual football I have ever seen from any player was Kouta's last quarter of the 99 prelim. He had a blinder against WC at optus one day also but this for me was the stand out memory I have of him.

Of course many say his 2000 and 2001 form was stellar (all Australian and MVP) but after his 2001 knee he declined in his influence over games whilst still being a valuable contributor. So over a period of 8 years he was a champion of the game (although he won our b&f in 05 as captain but by 05 anyone could win our b&f as witnessed by McKernon and Teague winning it), so from 95 to 05 as our best or close to it, that is some longevity too.

But if asked to remember him, last quarter 99 prelim is what always springs to mind. Truly Awesome display.

 

[Blue since 72]

I started to write that I couldn't split the two but have changed my mind. Kouta at his best is ahead in my mind and for one reason only. His ability to play different positions on the ground at an elite standard.

Judd will be remembered as one of the greatest midfielders in the game but to be blunt that's all he is.

 

[The Toad]

Great question. I've been thinking about it for a while now. And taking my man love for judd out of it, I really dont think you can compare the 2.

Kouta is the player modern day football is modeled on. Completely changed the recruiting process for all football clubs.

Judd is the best midfielder of all time. Hard as nails, never stops trying, a brilliant on-field leader. The whole side just lifts when he takes the game on. He is the main reason we are playing finals at the moment.

Thats my take on it anyway.