Toast Julia Gillard

[JuddFevGoal]

And I guess the heads of IMF and the World Bank are also ALP / Union paid consultants when they approved Rudd's plan on the stimulus package?

The latest depression was made by economic rationalism come wild. You've studied and got an MBA, please tell me the prevention for depressions in the future? That's right, you can't. But you're quite happy to criticise governments for correcting the mistakes made by the private sector, then criticise the government again for spending money and going into deficit for correcting those mistakes


And champ, like JFG I'm a lawyer who runs my own business, and perhaps I'm not smart enough on economics etc cos I don't have a MBA, but I'm curious, can you explain the business plan for the following:

• The Pacific Solution - millions were spent on the Pacific Solution, involving deals with Pacific Islands, set up costs and maintenance costs. However, the asylum seeker problem really isn't that big an issue in the big scheme of things, we're not getting invaded and they represented about 4% of refugees who come into Australia each year. They could've been processed here at a far cheaper cost. Can you please explain why this was economically rational?
• Iraq - we spent millions / billions on going to Iraq, based on WMD & Iraq's perceived threat to world security. However, we commit then find WMD's don't exist? Where was the business case for that?
• tax payers paying mothers $150,000 parental leave, when they already earn $300,000 a year? What's the business case for that?

Perhaps $42 billion is too much to spend on broadband, but at least we all agree that it'll be a benefit to Australia / business, not throwing money down the toilet on some of the issues I've raised above.

Fine points, and let's not forget:

- Australia's highest interest rates on record are from Howard's turn as treasurer during the Fraser government.
- Costello (touted here as a responsible treasurer, and I would agree) clearly has no faith in the economic ability of Abbot. I'm not sure where you get this huge amount of faith in Abbot's & Co's ability to prudently assess any major economic issues whatsoever. The Howard regime certainly never entrusted economic policy to him.
- The expenditure on the Iraq war and the Pacific solution also create no income for Australia. The NBN has the very real capacity to create an entire future for most of our industries and generate an enormous amount domestic income. Further, it will safeguard against the equally real possibility of our IT sector being blitzed by China, the US and others. So where would you rather put the money?

 

[jono25]

Actually know the highest mortgage rates in Australian history were 17% with Keating as Treasurer.

For the record in terms of worst Federal Governments ever I say 1. Rudd/Gillard 2. Fraser and 3. Whitlam.

Anyway it seems your view is it doesn't matter what something costs lets just do it, whereas I care about fiscal responsibility.

Lets just agree to disagree - the one thing I think we can agree on is that JG will be PM this time tomorrow.

 

[The Exorcist]

Actually know the highest mortgage rates in Australian history were 17% with Keating as Treasurer.

For the record in terms of worst Federal Governments ever I say 1. Rudd/Gillard 2. Fraser and 3. Whitlam.

Anyway it seems your view is it doesn't matter what something costs lets just do it, whereas I care about fiscal responsibility.

Lets just agree to disagree - the one thing I think we can agree on is that JG will be PM this time tomorrow.

No, that was never said. But what you're inferring is that the ALP is the waster of public money, and somehow the Libs are the great accountants. Howard wasted money, a lot as indicated above, and I didn't even focus on some of the more unnecessary rebates / bonuses


At day's end, all governments waste money / adopted big expenditure at times in some way or another (just like many businesses do). For what it's worth I'm in favour of market forces, but with government playing a very watchful role and performing social / economic help were necessary.


As for Hawke / Keating, yes, we experienced an economic downturn under Hawke / Keating (mind you Australia wasn't alone), but the last three years of Keating there was economic growth, and there were a lot of positives under Hawke/ Keating:

• Deregulation of the economy
• Floating of the dollar
• Superannuation
• wage restraint
• lower levels of industrial activity, certainly compared to the Fraser years

In fact, it's largely accepted that Keating / Hawke laid the economic blueprint for the economy today. Howard / Costello didn't "save" the economy, they did pay off the debt & introduce a GST, which were strong positives. But a reformist government over a 12 year period that laid the blueprint economy? That's rewriting history

What i find annoying is arguments put by economic rationalists about how the market should be left open, yet when that some market collapses because of lack of regulation, it's suddenly, "we need government action and huge amounts of public money to keep the markets afloat," then a year later it's "the government has gone into huge debt, that's terrible."

Perhaps Rudd shouldn't have done a stimulus package and then Australia could've experienced the pain of other nations, then what would you say? That Rudd should've done a stimulus package?

 

[jono25]

Wage restraint? So real wage growth of 1.3% in 13 years versus 25% growth in 11.5 years under Howard. Yep the workers of Australia loved that.

Refer to my earlier post where I said the strength of our economy is a combination of the Hawke/Keating/Howard reforms. You might want to remember that the Hawke reforms you refer to were largely referred to in a report commissioned by Howard but blocked from implementation by Fraser. It took a lot of guts for Hawke/Keating to make those reforms but never forget they had the support of the opposition something Howard never had when contemplating reform.

Hilarious that you think the only Howard reforms were paying off debt and the GST. How about waterfront and IR reform until 2004? Nice that you ignore the introduction of ASIC and APRA and the regulations that made sure our banks and other institutions didn't take on the toxic debt of their European and US counterparts. The biggest strength Australia has is its well regulated financial system. Something Rudd hampered with a bank guarantee that froze up thousands of people's retirement funds and are still frozen.

I suggest you try and understand economics and then history before commenting again. It is very clear your analysis comes straight from the Labor handbook.

 

[ESKIE]

Going well this thread...

 

[Silvagnis]

I didn't vote in the House, but I voted in the Senate.

I couldn't resist putting one in the box for the Alpha1's Australian Sex Party.

I had a cute ranga ask my name, yet she kept getting the wrong page after I spelt my name out at least three times. Even though I was reading it upside down, I told her she was on the wrong page at least two times.

And this is why you shouldn't vote for redheads.

 

[parrot]

Kinda depressing watching the current batch of political incompetents on both sides. Even more depressing watching the mindless "been there way too long" media cheerleaders, and people who have been suckered into the propoganda fest, exchanging bendable "facts" that have actually been invented each day by the media-minders.

Could anything be more pointless and yawnsome?

One day a true leader will emerge from somewhere. In the meantime I'll just have a good laugh at this circus.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Actually know the highest mortgage rates in Australian history were 17% with Keating as Treasurer.

For the record in terms of worst Federal Governments ever I say 1. Rudd/Gillard 2. Fraser and 3. Whitlam.

Anyway it seems your view is it doesn't matter what something costs lets just do it, whereas I care about fiscal responsibility.

Lets just agree to disagree - the one thing I think we can agree on is that JG will be PM this time tomorrow.

Interest rates 22% in real terms under Fraser government with Howard as treasurer.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s2085320.htm

Read it and weep.

Oh, and don't forget to reference your *cough* "facts".

 

[daics_35]

Pretty calculated by-the-numbers populism by Julia.

A lot more people hate Collingwood than love them.

Yer but surely people arnt gonna vote for a pm based on footy, thats such a dumb comment to make.

 

[jono25]

Interest rates 22% in real terms under Fraser government with Howard as treasurer.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2007/s2085320.htm

Read it and weep.

Oh, and don't forget to reference your *cough* "facts".

Yep great "facts" *******. You reference an interview with Labor Federal Treasurer Wayne Swann arguing that although interest rates under Fraser reached 13.5%, because they were capped the real rate was 22%. And your source is an interview with the Labor Treasurer.

You said you are a lawyer. Did you learn to do source evaluation at university?

Facts - highest mortgage rates under Fraser 13.5% - under Keating it was 17%.

Now I think Fraser was the second worst PM ever.

But what you have shown here is your absolute lack of credibility because you quote a source as the basis of your argument that is so bias and unreliable it isn't funny.

I take back what I said about you being intelligent - that post is a disgrace.

 

[parrot]

The good ol' "interest rates were higher under your Party than ours" rhetoric has been going on for ages. Fact is the interest rates are almost entirely dependent on the global economy, not our little country or our incompetent politicians. So just quote an interest rate during a worldwide recession if you want to make the party you don't like look bad. Politicians and their propaganda machine ramble on about interest rates, even though they don't really influence them, because their polls show that it grabs the public's attention. It's really embarrassing how childish our political debate is in this country. Cringe-worthy. Can't wait until the current batch of politicians qualify for their massive super payouts and retire. Perhaps some more intelligent people will appear in the next batch.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Yep great "facts" *******. You reference an interview with Labor Federal Treasurer Wayne Swann arguing that although interest rates under Fraser reached 13.5%, because they were capped the real rate was 22%. And your source is an interview with the Labor Treasurer.

You said you are a lawyer. Did you learn to do source evaluation at university?

Facts - highest mortgage rates under Fraser 13.5% - under Keating it was 17%.

Now I think Fraser was the second worst PM ever.

But what you have shown here is your absolute lack of credibility because you quote a source as the basis of your argument that is so bias and unreliable it isn't funny.

I take back what I said about you being intelligent - that post is a disgrace.

You're not winning any friends by constantly hurling derogatory names at other posters Jono. Your arguments will be capable of doing the talking for you, surely?

You started by calling me sunshine before we hardly met, and now it's dip shit.

How about some common courtesy?

Did you actually read the article? Have you heard of this figure? It was much debated in the previous 2 elections, so if you follow economics as closely as you claim, then you must surely have heard this discussion.

The figure of 22% is one that has been associated with John Howard's treasury in the Fraser government by many analysts. The explanation given here by Swan is sound reasoning.

There are many other references if you'd like them, and I notice that you haven't referenced ANY of your facts and figures.

The over-riding point here is that the often spouted Liberal rhetoric that Labor is the 'high interest rate' party is simply not true. This rhetoric was also put forth by your good self earlier in this discussion. Now you are qualifying that observation by saying that you are disowning the Fraser government as a performer in this dynamic. Why? Because it runs against your mythical trend.

Whatever figure you attribute to Howard's interest rates as treasurer, they were certainly double figures and no support to your initial observation.

As another poster has mentioned here, interest rates are determined by many more factors globally than which party is in office. Clearly at the end of the Rudd/Howard election, Howard had to stand by helplessly while interest rates rose.

Anyway, let's wrap it up there before you throw another charming name my way.

Good luck in the election and Go Blue Boys.