Toast Julia Gillard

[mediumsizered]

every one who doesn't barrack for Collingwood hates Collingwood.

I don't hate Collingwood. I find them & their supporters to be a great source of amusement. So often the Magpies build up the hopes of their supporters only to come crashing down when it counts most. It is funny to watch & therefore we should thank Collingwood for being such a great source of humour.

 

[CarltonFan]

Just on politics... these posts are my fav BF Carlton board posts of all time. Still makes me laugh everytime I switch the radio to MTR.

Any risk we might make a quid from something other than these insidious, society, community and family destroying machines?

Hey champ on the high and mighty horse, who lives the life of an Australian citizen thanks to taxes that come from smoking gambling and prostitution. All the roads you drive down are paved with the blood of the week and addicted so before you judge me or my family i suggest you get back to reality slap ya self in the face wake the f#$k up and thank god that we live in a free society were you get to question the very system that feeds you.

Grow up it's time you bleeding harts remember that the only reason we can afford to help the hopeless is because of taxes that come from such disgusting things. Left wing self righteous pricks make me sick.

The avatar says it all. How's the hearing living with your head permanently stuffed up your arse? Easiest thing in the world to trot out the Steve Price line - it's the mindset of the coward, the selfish, the greedy, the ignorant, the pathetic. No doubt you're rubbing your hands in glee having your very own right-wing hate station on the radio now.

Tell your stricken family members and friends (as if) that you don't give a **** about their plight because you're okay and the streets are paved (whatever the hell that has to do with it). Careful you never fall on hard times or make a mistake in your self-centred bullying life - there'd be someone to reach down a hand to help you but you of course would have to refuse. ****wit.

 

[jono25]

Eddie McGuire who is Collingwood is a member of the ALP. She accepts Eddie but hates Collingwood?

On the NBN I have done my homework sunshine. As a 26 year old that pays $100 a month for ADSL 2 and has every electronic gizmo you could think of (including IPAD, 3d TV etc) I love the idea of fast internet. Only problem I have with it is the cost - $43 billion of taxpapers money is insane. Given how Labor has stuck to its budget on other programs this thing will cost $50 billion plus.

We also see today it will cost households 2-3k to install. I would pay it - I can't see the average household doing so. I.e. it is not commercially viable - hence why they have no business plan.

As for your comments on the US system, they don't use fibre to the home and the service you speak of is available to less than 20% of the population.

Your vote is a very important thing and how you cast it shapes the future of this country for both you and the next generation - please think closely about it. We can't affford Australia to be governed as NSW and QLD have been. We can't afford another $100 billion of debt. Very simply, we can't afford Labor.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

And people wonder why we spiral into debt every time Labor gain control...

This is hilarious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeNih2aRZes The look on Costello's face at the end is GOLD.

We have the lowest debt per capita in the western world, and that's after a GEC stimulus crisis that actually worked and kept us out of recession. Learn the facts before you throw out simplistic, meaningless rhetoric

 

[ESKIE]

This is hilarious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeNih2aRZes The look on Costello's face at the end is GOLD.

We have the lowest debt per capita in the western world, and that's after a GEC stimulus crisis that actually worked and kept us out of recession. Learn the facts before you throw out simplistic, meaningless rhetoric

Good points you raise there.

Dangerous thread this one

 

[jono25]

Good points you raise there.

Dangerous thread this one

No they aren't good points. They are absolute lies and distortion cooked up by ALP spin doctors.

I want to point out very clearly that I am not a member of any poliical party and never will be. But I vote on one issue - the economy. Having a first class honours degree and a Masters in economics I think I am well qualified to speak on the subject. It determines how I vote.

Australia has the lowest Federal Government debt in the Western World because we started with zero debt. All those other countries with higher debt (eg US, UK etc) had debt above 20% of GDP before the GFC. It is no coincidence that the countries with the highest government debt going into the GFC i.e. UK, Irleand and USA have suffered the worst. What the GFC shows is that government debt is bad for the national economy.

What saved Australia from recession was the demand from China and the monetary stimulus the Reserve Bank was able to apply by slashing interest rates. Recent reports have shown the government stimulus had a very minor impact. Look at comments from Warwick McGibbon of the RBA on this subject or the Professor in charge of Economics at Harvard who wrote on this 2 weeks ago in the press.

Our strength as an economy is a result of reforms from the Hawke, Keating and Howard Government. The current mob have done nothing but spend the hard work of previous governments.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Eddie McGuire who is Collingwood is a member of the ALP. She accepts Eddie but hates Collingwood?

On the NBN I have done my homework sunshine. As a 26 year old that pays $100 a month for ADSL 2 and has every electronic gizmo you could think of (including IPAD, 3d TV etc) I love the idea of fast internet. Only problem I have with it is the cost - $43 billion of taxpapers money is insane. Given how Labor has stuck to its budget on other programs this thing will cost $50 billion plus.

We also see today it will cost households 2-3k to install. I would pay it - I can't see the average household doing so. I.e. it is not commercially viable - hence why they have no business plan.

As for your comments on the US system, they don't use fibre to the home and the service you speak of is available to less than 20% of the population.

Your vote is a very important thing and how you cast it shapes the future of this country for both you and the next generation - please think closely about it. We can't affford Australia to be governed as NSW and QLD have been. We can't afford another $100 billion of debt. Very simply, we can't afford Labor.

With respect, you need to think about this issue much more broadly and from an industry point of view and not just an end user (who will benefit from strong industry activity).

In short, you have to spend money to make money. Any country that can't understand this will be seriously left behind in what's about to happen over the next 20 years.

I am a co-owner of an IT/Media company and what we are seeing in the global market-place is a massive transfer of economic activity to online services. It is quite simply, the future of our economy.

Anyone who thinks we're going to invest in that kind of infrastructure without investing a significant sum of money, is simply living in fantasy land.

BUT, the benefits outweigh the costs - significantly. If we can compete with the US, Europe, China and India in peak speeds and broadband infrastructure we can meaningfully participate in the future global economy. The profits of this activity is then passed onto/subsidizes the end user.

The alternative is seriously scary to contemplate. Abbot and co are clearly unaware of the huge significance of the issue (or are only just becoming aware of it because of polls) and have suffered much criticism from the normally Liberal friendly private sector because of how much it will hurt them in the global marketplace. Abbot himself has admitted to being IT illiterate along with, as Peter Costello has suggested economically illiterate.

 

[Sublime]

This is hilarious! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeNih2aRZes The look on Costello's face at the end is GOLD.

We have the lowest debt per capita in the western world, and that's after a GEC stimulus crisis that actually worked and kept us out of recession. Learn the facts before you throw out simplistic, meaningless rhetoric

Fishing with fresh political bait is just too easy...

 

[JuddFevGoal]

No they aren't good points. They are absolute lies and distortion cooked up by ALP spin doctors.

I want to point out very clearly that I am not a member of any poliical party and never will be. But I vote on one issue - the economy. Having a first class honours degree and a Masters in economics I think I am well qualified to speak on the subject. It determines how I vote.

Australia has the lowest Federal Government debt in the Western World because we started with zero debt. All those other countries with higher debt (eg US, UK etc) had debt above 20% of GDP before the GFC. It is no coincidence that the countries with the highest government debt going into the GFC i.e. UK, Irleand and USA have suffered the worst. What the GFC shows is that government debt is bad for the national economy.

What saved Australia from recession was the demand from China and the monetary stimulus the Reserve Bank was able to apply by slashing interest rates. Recent reports have shown the government stimulus had a very minor impact. Look at comments from Warwick McGibbon of the RBA on this subject or the Professor in charge of Economics at Harvard who wrote on this 2 weeks ago in the press.

Our strength as an economy is a result of reforms from the Hawke, Keating and Howard Government. The current mob have done nothing but spend the hard work of previous governments.

I have a law degree, am a small business owner and am not a member of any political party.

To answer your question above, read this http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/08/16/2984733.htm

A report from 50 reputable economists backing the stimulous package and its positive effects to diminish the impact of the GEC.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Fishing with fresh political bait is just too easy...

Good point.

Jono25, how about a truce? Let's call it a day and talk footy. What do ya say?

Bare in mind, if you offer a challenge, I may have to respond...

 

[GordonBlue]

Eddie McGuire who is Collingwood is a member of the ALP. She accepts Eddie but hates Collingwood?

On the NBN I have done my homework sunshine. As a 26 year old that pays $100 a month for ADSL 2 and has every electronic gizmo you could think of (including IPAD, 3d TV etc) I love the idea of fast internet. Only problem I have with it is the cost - $43 billion of taxpapers money is insane. Given how Labor has stuck to its budget on other programs this thing will cost $50 billion plus.

We also see today it will cost households 2-3k to install. I would pay it - I can't see the average household doing so. I.e. it is not commercially viable - hence why they have no business plan.

As for your comments on the US system, they don't use fibre to the home and the service you speak of is available to less than 20% of the population.

Your vote is a very important thing and how you cast it shapes the future of this country for both you and the next generation - please think closely about it. We can't affford Australia to be governed as NSW and QLD have been. We can't afford another $100 billion of debt. Very simply, we can't afford Labor.

Never intended this to become a political debate... I really don't care for Gillard or Abbott... meant to be a anti collingwood (hence footy related topic)... however some people are making things up...

I work in the industry that designs and documents underground services to homes and industries... mostly power but strong association with data...

If there is anything which is clear as daylight... is this big wide open land of our that is Australia should be the first country to adopt fibre... it is actually crazy the fact that out in the bush how limited people actually are...

Sure... we have "enough" in big cities if you live in the perfect area away from broadband towers.... and we have enough to cope with exactly what we have today... but you do realise that dialup was once acceptable... have a go at it now... then ADSL1 was acceptable... have a go at that now... and now we have got to the stage where we need to infrastructure to be able to "catch up" to the world...

Sure... the filtering is ridiculous... but don't kid yourself about that... it is quite easy to disable once new government is in power... and every person gets extremely high speed broadband... not just the one living in perfect proximity to the towers...

This is one reason where I fear the Liberals... I fear they are too stuck in the past...

I will be voting Greens because at least they can stand in the way of stupid backwards agendas that the coalition might come up with... and stupid union beneficial agendas that labour might come up with...

Anyways... back to topic... Rangas do have Souls

 

[Sublime]

Good point.

Jono25, how about a truce? Let's call it a day and talk footy. What do ya say?

Bare in mind, if you offer a challenge, I may have to respond...

Sorry i couldn't help but respond yesterday with that leading statement, politics brings out the worst in all of us. I just said it for a laugh

How about that local sporting team?

 

[The Exorcist]

No they aren't good points. They are absolute lies and distortion cooked up by ALP spin doctors.

I want to point out very clearly that I am not a member of any poliical party and never will be. But I vote on one issue - the economy. Having a first class honours degree and a Masters in economics I think I am well qualified to speak on the subject. It determines how I vote.

Australia has the lowest Federal Government debt in the Western World because we started with zero debt. All those other countries with higher debt (eg US, UK etc) had debt above 20% of GDP before the GFC. It is no coincidence that the countries with the highest government debt going into the GFC i.e. UK, Irleand and USA have suffered the worst. What the GFC shows is that government debt is bad for the national economy.

What saved Australia from recession was the demand from China and the monetary stimulus the Reserve Bank was able to apply by slashing interest rates. Recent reports have shown the government stimulus had a very minor impact. Look at comments from Warwick McGibbon of the RBA on this subject or the Professor in charge of Economics at Harvard who wrote on this 2 weeks ago in the press.

Our strength as an economy is a result of reforms from the Hawke, Keating and Howard Government. The current mob have done nothing but spend the hard work of previous governments.

Everyone is an expert after the fact.


The fact is, no one really knows what to do in such a depression otherwise we wouldn't have depressions to begin with. With respect, our economists haven't been able to cure this age old problem


If Rudd didn't do a stimulus package and the economy suffered, the same people who now criticise the stimulus package would've probably criticised Rudd if he didn't do a stimulus package.


I'm amazed that proponents of the free market economy (and let's face it the free market was what caused all the GFC mess) who ran off to Governments looking for help during the GFC are now bagging Governments for that help, ie. privatise the profits socialise the losses.


Yes, our position within Asia helped, but there was certainly a lack of confidence in the economy at the time


After the GFC was declared and before the stimulus package was introduced, the Australian dollar started to plummet compared to the already plummeting US dollar, and there was real talk that some of our financial institutions would go under (and let's face it, when one goes under ...).


There was a stimulus package and a guarantee for the financial institutions, and a degree of stability returned. Certainly there was waste, but the Government had to act fast.


Depressions are pretty much caused by a lack of confidence. The stimulus package was designed to maintain confidence in the economy which it did compared to many other nations.

 

[The Exorcist]

Don't stop the boats, but Stop the Yachts

 

[BeligerentBlue]

Saturday shall be my first time voting for a federal election.

I think Donkey will get my vote.

There might be a bit of confusion. A donkey vote is when you just tick the box of the party of your choice and therefore adopt all of that party's preferences. This is for people who follow a political party like a football team rather than think for themselves.

Correction: My wife just told me that a donkey vote is where you just number the boxes from top to bottom from 1 to whatever no matter what order the boxes are presented in which is even more scary.

 

[blues4flag]

There might be a bit of confusion. A donkey vote is when you just tick the box of the party of your choice and therefore adopt all of that party's preferences. This is for people who follow a political party like a football team rather than think for themselves.

Correction: My wife just told me that a donkey vote is where you just number the boxes from top to bottom from 1 to whatever no matter what order the boxes are presented in which is even more scary.

Nah, what I intend to do is write Donkey at the bottom of the ballet box and just tick that.

 

[krayfesh]

Dragon vote...

 

[jono25]

Good point.

Jono25, how about a truce? Let's call it a day and talk footy. What do ya say?

Bare in mind, if you offer a challenge, I may have to respond...

I am very happy for you to respond. Your responses don't bother me - so far you have simply quoted ALP spin merchants, including an advertisement that dishonestly distorts Peter Costello's view. I also have no problem discussing these issues with you, because at least you have clearly thought through a view and are intelligent. Smart people can disagree.

As for your comments on the NBN, if it is going to provide so much of a benefit for business in the next 20 years don't you think internet companies will build it? Can you provide me with a link to the business plan showing the projected use from business, projected cost to business and households, as well as a cost benefit analysis of the impact of the borrowings vs the revenue/opportunities flowing from the NBN? You can't because there isn't one. Labor (and clearly yourself) want to spend $43 billion of taxpayer funds without any detailed analysis. You say you have a law degree and as someone who is a solicitor in the top corporate law firm in the country, let me tell you if directors of a company signed off on that level of expenditure without doing proper due diligence they would face a shareholder class action.

Again I have no problem with the idea of building an NBN and even significantly contributing to the cost of it, but someone needs to do the hard yards first to prove the benefits and ultimate costs of such a policy. Anything less is negligence and by voting for this mob you endorse that negligence. Same as what happened when they rolled out the insulation scheme that killed people. Poor planning begets poor policy outcomes.

As for the 50 economists you quote, they are all university professors with grants linked to the ALP or paid consultants for unions. Again I agree some stimulus was needed (which the Coalition supported), but Labor panicked, raided the piggy bank and spent big (and are still spending despite the risk being over...well until the US tumbles next year) with limited effect.

I go back to the same people who have done such a great job of running the NSW Govt are now in charge of Federal Labor. Is that the sort of government you want for our nation?

 

[parrot]

Unfortunately there's a lack of list talent on both sides. Labour has become just as bad of the Libs unfortunately. I cringe when I hear an Australian Politician speak. The good news is incompetents are always indecisive, and won't do much damage. The country will just run on auto-pilot like it has been for the past 10 years, until the current batch of cronies retire and some semi-competent leader emerges over the next 5-10 years. In the meantime I'll just kick-back and laugh at their embarrassing media performances.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

I am very happy for you to respond. Your responses don't bother me - so far you have simply quoted ALP spin merchants, including an advertisement that dishonestly distorts Peter Costello's view. I also have no problem discussing these issues with you, because at least you have clearly thought through a view and are intelligent. Smart people can disagree.

As for your comments on the NBN, if it is going to provide so much of a benefit for business in the next 20 years don't you think internet companies will build it? Can you provide me with a link to the business plan showing the projected use from business, projected cost to business and households, as well as a cost benefit analysis of the impact of the borrowings vs the revenue/opportunities flowing from the NBN? You can't because there isn't one. Labor (and clearly yourself) want to spend $43 billion of taxpayer funds without any detailed analysis. You say you have a law degree and as someone who is a solicitor in the top corporate law firm in the country, let me tell you if directors of a company signed off on that level of expenditure without doing proper due diligence they would face a shareholder class action.

Again I have no problem with the idea of building an NBN and even significantly contributing to the cost of it, but someone needs to do the hard yards first to prove the benefits and ultimate costs of such a policy. Anything less is negligence and by voting for this mob you endorse that negligence. Same as what happened when they rolled out the insulation scheme that killed people. Poor planning begets poor policy outcomes.

As for the 50 economists you quote, they are all university professors with grants linked to the ALP or paid consultants for unions. Again I agree some stimulus was needed (which the Coalition supported), but Labor panicked, raided the piggy bank and spent big (and are still spending despite the risk being over...well until the US tumbles next year) with limited effect.

I go back to the same people who have done such a great job of running the NSW Govt are now in charge of Federal Labor. Is that the sort of government you want for our nation?

Hi, first of all, enough with the cheap personal attacks - you could equally be accused of spewing out shallow right wing hack propaganda, so let's just talk facts and do away with the undergraduate insults.

The 50 economists who put together the report sound like they're made up largely of the guys who are teaching you in your Masters of Economics which you've been badging around this site.

Are you seriously contending that the NBN will not be of benefit to the business community? How could it not if you read the facts? Read the report from the Australian Telecommunications Users Group as one example - a conglomerate focused on Australian business interests and technology and have no political affiliation except small and large business. They endorse the NBN unequivocally as the way forward for Australian business. http://www.atug.com.au/

The assertion that everything will be fine if we leave the future of Broadband to the private sector promotes only uncertainty. It's like the assertion that Wall Street should self regulate - which leads to the GEC of 2008 dragging the rest of the world into economic turmoil with it. Pretty soon, guess who has to bail out the unregulated market? - tax payers of course and to the tune of 10's of billions of dollars. If there's been a lesson in the last 15 years, it's that you can't leave everything to the private sector, without enormous risk. What's good for shareholders is not always good for the rest of the business sector or for the wider population.

Face it, the Coalition have no plan for the future of IT related business and they are feeling the uncertainty from that sector.

As I said, before before being accused of Labor party 'spin doctoring'. I am not a member of a party. I am a member of the IT/Media industry and I care about it's future. That is what drives me and the difference I can see between having a vision on the one hand and blindly hoping that the private sector will come to the rescue is an immense and immensely scary one.

 

[jono25]

Mate my old man is a former board member of ATUG. He is retired now but was a big wig in the industry for over 40 years. I understand the needs of the IT sector and don't question that the NBN would be of great benefit to the economy.

My point is simply is it worth $43 billion? Until someone can show me a business plan and a properly considered cost/benefit analysis I can't support spending $43 billion of taxpayer money, particularly when we have a $90 billion debt already.

The Labor plan is equivalent to saying I need a new car lets go and buy a Ferrari without thinking whether you need the Ferrari and whether you can afford it. If we had no debt and surpluses (i.e if we were still under Howard/Costello) then maybe we could be a bit less prudent with money. But after racking up so much debt on things like pink bats and school halls, I can't justify spending more $ without a proper business plan.

Are you a parent? Sometimes one of the hardest things for a parent to do is say NO. Labor is like a negligent parent - just says yes to everything. The Liberals are the responsible ones being prepared to say No when necessary.

The Libs do have a plan for the IT sector, it is premised on spending $6 billion to boost speeds where the private sector won't. Is it as good as the NBN? - no way. But it is what we can afford.

As for the 50 economists, it is like the 3000 scientists who signed a petitition saying global warming isn't human induced. Those 50 in particular have research grants linked to ALP think tanks and unions. Again I refer you to comments from the head of Ecoonomics at Harvard and the RBA board.

 

[The Exorcist]

My point is simply is it worth $43 billion? Until someone can show me a business plan and a properly considered cost/benefit analysis I can't support spending $43 billion of taxpayer money, particularly when we have a $90 billion debt already.

The Labor plan is equivalent to saying I need a new car lets go and buy a Ferrari without thinking whether you need the Ferrari and whether you can afford it. If we had no debt and surpluses (i.e if we were still under Howard/Costello) then maybe we could be a bit less prudent with money. But after racking up so much debt on things like pink bats and school halls, I can't justify spending more $ without a proper business plan.

Are you a parent? Sometimes one of the hardest things for a parent to do is say NO. Labor is like a negligent parent - just says yes to everything. The Liberals are the responsible ones being prepared to say No when necessary.

And I guess the heads of IMF and the World Bank are also ALP / Union paid consultants when they approved Rudd's plan on the stimulus package?

The latest depression was made by economic rationalism come wild. You've studied and got an MBA, please tell me the prevention for depressions in the future? That's right, you can't. But you're quite happy to criticise governments for correcting the mistakes made by the private sector, then criticise the government again for spending money and going into deficit for correcting those mistakes


And champ, like JFG I'm a lawyer who runs my own business, and perhaps I'm not smart enough on economics etc cos I don't have a MBA, but I'm curious, can you explain the business plan for the following:

• The Pacific Solution - millions were spent on the Pacific Solution, involving deals with Pacific Islands, set up costs and maintenance costs. However, the asylum seeker problem really isn't that big an issue in the big scheme of things, we're not getting invaded and they represented about 4% of refugees who come into Australia each year. They could've been processed here at a far cheaper cost. Can you please explain why this was economically rational?
• Iraq - we spent millions / billions on going to Iraq, based on WMD & Iraq's perceived threat to world security. However, we commit then find WMD's don't exist? Where was the business case for that?
• tax payers paying mothers $150,000 parental leave, when they already earn $300,000 a year? What's the business case for that?

Perhaps $42 billion is too much to spend on broadband, but at least we all agree that it'll be a benefit to Australia / business, not throwing money down the toilet on some of the issues I've raised above.

 

[ESKIE]

I am very happy for you to respond. Your responses don't bother me - so far you have simply quoted ALP spin merchants, including an advertisement that dishonestly distorts Peter Costello's view. I also have no problem discussing these issues with you, because at least you have clearly thought through a view and are intelligent. Smart people can disagree.

As for your comments on the NBN, if it is going to provide so much of a benefit for business in the next 20 years don't you think internet companies will build it? Can you provide me with a link to the business plan showing the projected use from business, projected cost to business and households, as well as a cost benefit analysis of the impact of the borrowings vs the revenue/opportunities flowing from the NBN? You can't because there isn't one. Labor (and clearly yourself) want to spend $43 billion of taxpayer funds without any detailed analysis. You say you have a law degree and as someone who is a solicitor in the top corporate law firm in the country, let me tell you if directors of a company signed off on that level of expenditure without doing proper due diligence they would face a shareholder class action.

Again I have no problem with the idea of building an NBN and even significantly contributing to the cost of it, but someone needs to do the hard yards first to prove the benefits and ultimate costs of such a policy. Anything less is negligence and by voting for this mob you endorse that negligence. Same as what happened when they rolled out the insulation scheme that killed people. Poor planning begets poor policy outcomes.

As for the 50 economists you quote, they are all university professors with grants linked to the ALP or paid consultants for unions. Again I agree some stimulus was needed (which the Coalition supported), but Labor panicked, raided the piggy bank and spent big (and are still spending despite the risk being over...well until the US tumbles next year) with limited effect.

I go back to the same people who have done such a great job of running the NSW Govt are now in charge of Federal Labor. Is that the sort of government you want for our nation?

Yeh and there;s reds under the bed

 

[jono25]

You mean the same IMF and World Bank that failed to predict the GFC? They have no credibility.

It wasn't a depression at all. I suggest you understand the concept of a depression - go study history and you would understand what a true depression is. The recession was caused by poor regulation simply.

As for the three points you raise - agree 2 was a waste of money.

3 is an important social reform to encourage female participation in the workforce but I wouldn't have the cap at 150k more like 100k max. Oh and the maximum payment a mother can receive is 75k (150k annual wage for 6 months).

1 is important to secure our borders and goes to the fundamental principle of fairness i.e. why should African refugees wait in camps of filth for 7+ years where other refugees can pay $10k plus to jump the queue. I would double the refugee intake if I was in charge but anyone that came by boat would go to the end of the queue.

It isn't 4% by the way. Our refugee intake is 13,500 per year and over 3000 have come by boat this year - more than 20% of our intake actually.

You aren't big on getting the facts right are you chump.

 

[jono25]

Oh and I see you also fail to mention things like pink batts and school halls. Bias much?

I am happy to admit Howard and Costello wasted tonnes of money on middle class welfare (again why I won't join a political party because I don't see why when I earn high 6 figure income taxpayers should pay for my health insurance) - but at least they delivered a surplus and got rid of the debt built up.

The current mob have wasted the surplus and wasted so much money. And want to spend $43 billion (not 42) with no business plan. Add the cost of the three things you quoted and its less than $10 billion (not accepting that all of those 3 are a waste of money) - compare that to $43 billion. Big difference!