Katich is God! Clarke a plod....

[BORK]

An analysis of how our batsmen cope when it counts most. When the conditions are tough and the pressure is on.

I have always held the belief that our annointed one is a downhill skier and wanted to compare him relative to other non captains in our current batting line up. I did not include Marcus North as we all know too well he will be stamped never to play for Australia again soon enough and are aware of his pityful average entering the crease with the team total below 150.

These stats are accurate to the 6/12/2010.

The criteria is runs per innings scored when the Australian total in their first batting innings of a test match is below 300,

Simon Katich: 16 innings, 7 scores above 40, average RPI 37.7

Michael Hussey: 16 innings, 5 scores above 40, average RPI 32.4

Shane Watson: 9 innings, 3 scores above 40, average RPI 28.1

Brad Haddin: 9 innings, 2 scores above 40, average RPI 21.3

MICHAEL CLARKE: 19 innings, 2 scores above 40, average RPI 20.26

Interestingly enough Michael Clarke has actually got worse in totals of under 300 in the last 2 years scoring just 116 runs in 9 innings at an average RPI of 12.9. Whilst Simon Katich has averaged 45.8 in the last 11 innings under 300 before yesterday.

Clarke has naturally inflated his career average by scoring 12 of his 14 test centuries in team totals of 445 and over. But whose runs have been more important for Australia over their careers???

A Clarke 118 in a team total of 563 or a Katich 88 in a team total of 231?

Captains should be able to lead by example in the tough conditions, and when the going is tough every other batsmen and even wicket keeper in the team seem to step to the plate better than our annointed one.
In the tough conditions Katich is God while Clarke tries to plod.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

An analysis of how our batsmen cope when it counts most. When the conditions are tough and the pressure is on.

I have always held the belief that our annointed one is a downhill skier and wanted to compare him relative to other non captains in our current batting line up. I did not include Marcus North as we all know too well he will be stamped never to play for Australia again soon enough and are aware of his pityful average entering the crease with the team total below 150.

These stats are accurate to the 6/12/2010.

The criteria is runs per innings scored when the Australian total in their first batting innings of a test match is below 300,

Simon Katich: 16 innings, 7 scores above 40, average RPI 37.7

Michael Hussey: 16 innings, 5 scores above 40, average RPI 32.4

Shane Watson: 9 innings, 3 scores above 40, average RPI 28.1

Brad Haddin: 9 innings, 2 scores above 40, average RPI 21.3

MICHAEL CLARKE: 19 innings, 2 scores above 40, average RPI 20.26

Interestingly enough Michael Clarke has actually got worse in totals of under 300 in the last 2 years scoring just 116 runs in 9 innings at an average RPI of 12.9. Whilst Simon Katich has averaged 45.8 in the last 11 innings under 300 before yesterday.

Clarke has naturally inflated his career average by scoring 12 of his 14 test centuries in team totals of 445 and over. But whose runs have been more important for Australia over their careers???

A Clarke 118 in a team total of 563 or a Katich 88 in a team total of 231?

Captains should be able to lead by example in the tough conditions, and when the going is tough every other batsmen and even wicket keeper in the team seem to step to the plate better than our annointed one.
In the tough conditions Katich is God while Clarke tries to plod.

Oh go on, include North. I could do with a laugh.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Meanwhile Katich is to dumb to run between wickets. TBH I think we have to come to terms with the fact we are the 5th best side in test cricket and are because we don't have the talent anymore and continue to stuff around with selections. What makes it worse is that it seems we don't think we need a rebuild.

 

[BORK]

Oh go on, include North. I could do with a laugh.

If I were to spreadsheet data on North I would have to group him with Hauritz, Lee, Warne, Gillespie ect for extra effect..

 

[dan warna]

If I were to spreadsheet data on North I would have to group him with Hauritz, Lee, Warne, Gillespie ect for extra effect..

Ouch...burn.

 

[Borisdog]

There seems to be a lot of analysis along these lines lately.

How did X go when we got under X.

Ever thought the reason we got to 400 was BECAUSE X got a hundred?

I would have thought that if a team scores under 300 then there's going to always be a big chance that the majority of the Batsmen have scored under their averages, for instance if your top 6 all average 45 then that's an automatic 270 isn't it. You'd have to think the keeper and the bowlers were good for 30 between them. The thing is not everyone performs on any given day.

Unfortunately at the moment we have a few too many batsmen under-performing combined with a few too many bowlers under-performing which means we're going to lose a few matches until people return to form. It's not the end of the world and I'm not sure ( with the exception of North ) that the guys in the side are worse than the guys they're keeping out.

 

[Goldencats]

You make a very good point, I think it goes to show why so many cricketing fans rate Clarke as the most overrated Australian cricketer, he's a front runner there's no doubt about that

 

[Fastback]

Can you do one for Mark Waugh also? - I'm tipping the results would be very similar.

 

[Selective Retention]

What's punters?

 

[Borisdog]

You make a very good point, I think it goes to show why so many cricketing fans rate Clarke as the most overrated Australian cricketer, he's a front runner there's no doubt about that

I must be one of the few that rate the guy. He IS out of form - no doubt, but he's a very good Batsman IMO.

I went for a bit of a look at his 100's, just out of curiosity.

He's made 11 at No 5 and 3 at No 6 - never made one at 4

11 of 14 in the first innings - of those he came in 6 times when I'd say we were doing OK, and 5 times when we weren't. For the sake of the argument I've called 3/150 or 4/200 OK. Hardly conclusive downhill skier status.

3 of 14 in the second dig - 2 when we're not doing OK and 1 when we were, same qualifiers.

On these stats you'd suggest he's batting too far up the order at the moment. Point being , selectively, stats aren't everything. They can be made to tell whichever story suits an agenda.

 

[BORK]

There seems to be a lot of analysis along these lines lately.

How did X go when we got under X.

Ever thought the reason we got to 400 was BECAUSE X got a hundred?

I would have thought that if a team scores under 300 then there's going to always be a big chance that the majority of the Batsmen have scored under their averages, for instance if your top 6 all average 45 then that's an automatic 270 isn't it. You'd have to think the keeper and the bowlers were good for 30 between them. The thing is not everyone performs on any given day.

Unfortunately at the moment we have a few too many batsmen under-performing combined with a few too many bowlers under-performing which means we're going to lose a few matches until people return to form. It's not the end of the world and I'm not sure ( with the exception of North ) that the guys in the side are worse than the guys they're keeping out.

10 of Clarke's 14 test centuries had 2,3 and even 4 century makers for the innings and one of his lone hands was in an innings of...

Austalia 577
Clarke 112
Ponting 87
Hayden 83
Katich 64

And this was in response to India's 7 dec for 613
Gambir 206
Laxman 200

It seems X is very good at joining the party rather than getting us there.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Ahh statistics
Meanwhile, some of Clarkes performances in pressure situations

4/149 Clarke made 151
4/128 Clarke made 141
3/137 Clarke made 103 not out
3/23 Clarke made 98
3/155 Clarke made 110
3/15 Clarke made 62
3/143 Clarke made 88 not out
3/109 Clarke made 138
3/38 Clarke made 68
3/71 Clarke made 166
3/115 Clarke made 168

The guy can bat. Back issues arent helping him at present but he's not a spud

 

[Borisdog]

quote=MUFCBLAFC;19717466]10 of Clarke's 14 test centuries had 2,3 and even 4 century makers for the innings and one of his lone hands was in an innings of...



Austalia 577

Clarke 112

Ponting 87

Hayden 83

Katich 64

Quote:

And this was in response to India's 7 dec for 613

Gambir 206

Laxman 200



It seems X is very good at joining the party rather than getting us there
End Quote


Go and have a look at what the score was when he came in. Not all of those hundreds were made by guys batting ahead of him.

Of note his average at 4 is 17.8, at 5 it's 56

 

[BORK]

I must be one of the few that rate the guy. He IS out of form - no doubt, but he's a very good Batsman IMO.

I went for a bit of a look at his 100's, just out of curiosity.

He's made 11 at No 5 and 3 at No 6 - never made one at 4

11 of 14 in the first innings - of those he came in 6 times when I'd say we were doing OK, and 5 times when we weren't. For the sake of the argument I've called 3/150 or 4/200 OK. Hardly conclusive downhill skier status.

3 of 14 in the second dig - 2 when we're not doing OK and 1 when we were, same qualifiers.



On these stats you'd suggest he's batting too far up the order at the moment. Point being , selectively, stats aren't everything. They can be made to tell whichever story suits an agenda.

10 of his 14 he is not the lone century maker. One of those lone centuries was a 112 in an innigs total of 577 and there had already been two double century makers that match.

Another of his lone hand centuries he scored 103 when North scored 96 and the team declared.

I have already shown 12 of his 14 test centuries to not match the idea of a captains knock,

His best ever innings was a 98 in tough conditions agaist New Zealand. And he still choked before his centure. That IF he got it would hae been the TRUE captains knock.

I take nothing away from his 138 against South Africa too.

BTW if you want typical Clarke try his 166 against New Zealand when Pontig made a double century.

And the sad thing is Clarke goes around knocking up his two highest test scores and meanwhile is failing worse in low scoring innings than at any other time in his career.

 

[dan warna]

Ahh statistics
Meanwhile, some of Clarkes performances in pressure situations

4/149 Clarke made 151
4/128 Clarke made 141
3/137 Clarke made 103 not out
3/23 Clarke made 98
3/155 Clarke made 110
3/15 Clarke made 62
3/143 Clarke made 88 not out
3/109 Clarke made 138
3/38 Clarke made 68
3/71 Clarke made 166
3/115 Clarke made 168

The guy can bat. Back issues arent helping him at present but he's not a spud

He's a good batsman but he's not a champion.

He's a solid contributor and international class batsman, but he's not the great some people make him out to be and he's not the spud that some people make him out to be.

 

[BORK]

quote=MUFCBLAFC;19717466]10 of Clarke's 14 test centuries had 2,3 and even 4 century makers for the innings and one of his lone hands was in an innings of...



Austalia 577

Clarke 112

Ponting 87

Hayden 83

Katich 64

Quote:

And this was in response to India's 7 dec for 613

Gambir 206

Laxman 200



It seems X is very good at joining the party rather than getting us there
End Quote


Go and have a look at what the score was when he came in. Not all of those hundreds were made by guys batting ahead of him.

Of note his average at 4 is 17.8, at 5 it's 56

GEES BORIS'

India declared over 600 and Australia got just under are you really gonna try and say that was not a FLAT TRACK?

 

[BORK]

Ahh statistics
Meanwhile, some of Clarkes performances in pressure situations

4/149 Clarke made 151
4/128 Clarke made 141
3/137 Clarke made 103 not out
3/23 Clarke made 98
3/155 Clarke made 110
3/15 Clarke made 62
3/143 Clarke made 88 not out
3/109 Clarke made 138
3/38 Clarke made 68
3/71 Clarke made 166
3/115 Clarke made 168

The guy can bat. Back issues arent helping him at present but he's not a spud

So the team can be 2/155 lose a wicket and that is a high pressure innings?
In most of those innings someone else was smashing a huge score with him. When the pins are falling around you as captain you need to stand up. He nearly always had a steadier at the other end such as Ponting who scored 203 when clarke got that 166.

His defining innings was the 98 where he batted with the tail like a leader but still choked when near.

The stats dont lie that when all the pins are falling (tough time calls for tough player like a Katich, Hussey, Warne, Border, S Waugh ect) he fails harder than anyone else secure in our batting lineup.

 

[BORK]

This thread aint about questioning Clarke's place in the team, it questions his lack of ability to produce a captains knock when needed and to show how underrated a Katich type player is.

 

[Borisdog]

Went back and had a look at my posts and can't see where I said he hasn't batted on a few flat ones.

As far as when he makes his runs;

Of those hundreds, the 3 he made at 6 also had 3 other guys make one. 2 of those guys came in at 7. Pretty handy player called Gilchrist - you may have heard of him. The other was made by #3 in Adelaide in a Test Match we did not deserve to win - and Clarke was there at the end, so I'd call those pretty valuable contributions.

The ones where he batted at 5, it's half and half people above him or none and below him.

Bearing in mind that over half the sides ''batsmen" are in before him I reckon that's a fair record.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I see nothing in your OP about ''Captain's knock'' but I do agree with you that in his current form he's not a great choice for Captain if the position arises.

 

[BORK]

Went back and had a look at my posts and can't see where I said he hasn't batted on a few flat ones.

As far as when he makes his runs;

Of those hundreds, the 3 he made at 6 also had 3 other guys make one. 2 of those guys came in at 7. Pretty handy player called Gilchrist - you may have heard of him. The other was made by #3 in Adelaide in a Test Match we did not deserve to win - and Clarke was there at the end, so I'd call those pretty valuable contributions.

The ones where he batted at 5, it's half and half people above him or none and below him.

Bearing in mind that over half the sides ''batsmen" are in before him I reckon that's a fair record.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

If we lose everyone and we are down to the tail with one fulltime batsman left and it is your captain you should feel most comfortable that this player can grind out a big score with the tail. A leader does that. Steve Waugh does that. Mike Hussey can.

Clarke struggles bigtime when we need that kind of saving. A more experienced player in his younger days scoring a century with him helped. Him left alone with the tail is another matter.

He lacks the captains knock but knows how to milk a flat pitch like no other.

Since he came back fom being dropped he scres centuries nearly everytime the team gets past 500.

Like I said before his best leaders innings to date was the 98 but its unfortunate he could not finish the job and even more unfortunate that since then even though he regularly knocks up 100s on flat wickets he has actually got worse in the tough conditions.

His last 9 innings where the team was under 300 have averaged 1 quarter what Katich does in the same conditions excluding yesterdays diamond duck.

Agree that this seems to be going in circles and there is cricket to watch now though.

 

[Northern_Swan]

Ahh statistics
Meanwhile, some of Clarkes performances in pressure situations

4/149 Clarke made 151
4/128 Clarke made 141
3/137 Clarke made 103 not out
3/23 Clarke made 98
3/155 Clarke made 110
3/15 Clarke made 62
3/143 Clarke made 88 not out
3/109 Clarke made 138
3/38 Clarke made 68
3/71 Clarke made 166
3/115 Clarke made 168

The guy can bat. Back issues arent helping him at present but he's not a spud

And here in lies the problem. He's not fit and therefore shouldn't be playing. His injury concerns are affecting his performance

 

[BORK]

And here in lies the problem. He's not fit and therefore shouldn't be playing. His injury concerns are affecting his performance

So everytime Australia has scored under 300 in his career he has been affected by injury even though he smashes a 100 on next weeks flat wicket.

Face it. Clarke is abysmal in tough conditions and elite in fhe friendly ones.

He also craps himself when needed to save the team without the help of another experienced campainer knocking up a big score aswell.

Leaders need to perform in these situations. Clarke's record is piss poor compared with his teamates.

Yes Clarke cam bat, he is just inferior to nearly everyone in the batting lineup when the team total is low and a legend on 500 pitches.

HENCE a huge downhill skier. You are blind if you cant see these blatent facts.

Let me ask you this. How confident are you that Clarke could produce the match saving innings that Ponting did at Old Trafford in 2995??

In that situation you should feel comfortable that youre captain will be the man to stand up and save the day. Most the guys in our lineup you would sense will do better than Clarkei in the same conditions.

Hence why can you have a dowcnhill skier for a captain who crumbles more often than his teamates in tough conditions.

There are not many people feeling the need to comment in support as my case is compelling enough.

 

[Northern_Swan]

Calm down mate i'm not arguing against your POV.

My point is, he's unfit, so shouldn't be selected. Wouldn't matter if he was averaging 60. Nothing else comes into it.

 

[swampy]

An analysis of how our batsmen cope when it counts most. When the conditions are tough and the pressure is on.
.

interesting post. have been looking for "runs made as a % of total" type statistics. what site do you use to generate the stats?

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Oh look it's popular to bash Clarke again.