Kim Hughes article

[unstable punt]

Interesting article comparing Pieterson with K. Hughes, the real interesting stuff is further on in the article about the way Lillee and Marsh treated Hughes. I know this is not new to most of us who follow cricket but apparently there's a new book which get's right into it and says that Lillee and Marsh should hang their heads in shame.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article6672911.ece

 

[Ghostwriter]

Apparently Hughes wasn't interviewed for the book but verified lots of the stories, not sure if that makes sense, funny thing as a kid when Hughes was captain I definitely got the impression Marsh and Lillee were undermining him, might be called bullying these days.
As much as we all loved Lillee, you only have to watch him in replays to see he intimidated umpires too, I can vividly remember my old man used to rubbish him all the time, I could never understand why until today.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Interesting that they're leaving Greg "I'll captain when I feel like it" Chappell out of it when he was arguably the biggest culprit of all.

I can understand that the ACB were terrified of Packer and "his boys" in the wake of WSC, but allowing Chappell to swan in and out of the side on a whim was utterly disgraceful.

 

[scottywiper]

Book is called "Golden Boy", reading it at the moment.
Doesn't paint a pretty picture of Lillee and Marsh, or even Greg Chappell, but mainly the first two.
I gather Kim didn't agree to be part of the book as he had made his peace with those guys and they are now friends.

 

[Respected Journo]

Denniss Lillee and Rod Marsh do seem to be a well and truly from that macho element, i can easily imagine them making life hell for anyone who they didn't think conformed with their drink and smoke and swear lifestyle.

 

[flight23]

any actual examples of the undermining?

 

[Respected Journo]

I guess you'd have to read the book, I don't think they'd go public with specific examples.

 

[scottywiper]

any actual examples of the undermining?

Plenty in the book, provided by blokes like Mike Whitney and Geoff Lawson and many others.
It's really quite amazing to read.

 

[flight23]

Plenty in the book, provided by blokes like Mike Whitney and Geoff Lawson and many others.
It's really quite amazing to read.

lol, cheers

 

[Wicked Lester]

Interesting that they're leaving Greg "I'll captain when I feel like it" Chappell out of it when he was arguably the biggest culprit of all.

I can understand that the ACB were terrified of Packer and "his boys" in the wake of WSC, but allowing Chappell to swan in and out of the side on a whim was utterly disgraceful.

You don't accept that chronic back problems, which almost ended his career and made flying long distances intolerable, may have played just a small part in Chappell's decision to miss several overseas tours in the latter part of his career?

Besides, missing tours wasn't exactly out of the ordinary during the period. Hughes himself opted Australia's maiden tour of Sri Laka in 1983 for personal reasons. Chappell had permanently retired from the captaincy following the preceding Ashes series, but decided to make the tour and captained in Hughes' absence.

The bizarre thing is, despite all the historical question marks about so-called undermining of Hughes' captaincy, Hughes by his own admission now counts Lillee, Marsh and Chappell amongst his closest friends. Apparently they see quite a lot of each other.

 

[KevinTaylor]

Plenty in the book, provided by blokes like Mike Whitney and Geoff Lawson and many others.
It's really quite amazing to read.

I only came across this book the other day. Great read.

Lillee and Marsh were my heroes growing up so not that nice to read.
Have either of them ever responded to the many allegations in "Golden Boy'

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I only came across this book the other day. Great read.

Lillee and Marsh were my heroes growing up so not that nice to read.
Have either of them ever responded to the many allegations in "Golden Boy'

Why should they? These allegations have been around for years, why bring them up again?

And so far as the captaincy issue is concerned, Greg Chappell has answered this many, many times. If he's not available to tour, he has every right to withdraw. Each time he made himself available to play, he never asked for the captaincy, but was asked by the ACB to do so. People carry on as though there is something sinister about the whole thing, but the ACB obviously considered Greg Chappell a better option as captain than Kim Hughes, and history would suggest this is a fair assessment.

To a degree, we are seeing the same bullshit with Clarke and Smith. There are people on this forum suggesting that because Clarke was injured and Smith captained the team in his absence, then Smith should now be the full time captain. Clarke is far away the best option to captain the team right now, so why shouldn't he resume as captain when available? It's all about picking the best available team.

 

[KevinTaylor]

Why should they? These allegations have been around for years, why bring them up again?

And so far as the captaincy issue is concerned, Greg Chappell has answered this many, many times. If he's not available to tour, he has every right to withdraw. Each time he made himself available to play, he never asked for the captaincy, but was asked by the ACB to do so. People carry on as though there is something sinister about the whole thing, but the ACB obviously considered Greg Chappell a better option as captain than Kim Hughes, and history would suggest this is a fair assessment.

To a degree, we are seeing the same bullshit with Clarke and Smith. There are people on this forum suggesting that because Clarke was injured and Smith captained the team in his absence, then Smith should now be the full time captain. Clarke is far away the best option to captain the team right now, so why shouldn't he resume as captain when available? It's all about picking the best available team.

Have you read it?
Of course Chappell was captain when he played. The drama was when he wasn't playing.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Have you read it?
Of course Chappell was captain when he played. The drama was when he wasn't playing.

I don't need to read it. I know what took place.
I'm not sure what your second sentence means.

 

[KevinTaylor]

I didnt realise how badly Marsh took not getting the captaincy and how much his best mate backed up his anger.

Yeah my English is very poor.
I meant if Chappell made himself available he was always Captain . He made himself unavailable a fair bit though. Apparently during the tours he didn't make himself available and after he retired, Marsh and Lillee were white anting the team.

 

[Hellgood]

'Golden Boy' is a great book.

It's good to hear that despite all their differences, that the parties concerned have buried the hatchet and can look each other in the eye these days.

 

[the_interloper]

Why should they? These allegations have been around for years, why bring them up again?

And so far as the captaincy issue is concerned, Greg Chappell has answered this many, many times. If he's not available to tour, he has every right to withdraw. Each time he made himself available to play, he never asked for the captaincy, but was asked by the ACB to do so. People carry on as though there is something sinister about the whole thing, but the ACB obviously considered Greg Chappell a better option as captain than Kim Hughes, and history would suggest this is a fair assessment.

To a degree, we are seeing the same bullshit with Clarke and Smith. There are people on this forum suggesting that because Clarke was injured and Smith captained the team in his absence, then Smith should now be the full time captain. Clarke is far away the best option to captain the team right now, so why shouldn't he resume as captain when available? It's all about picking the best available team.

I don't know about that. Seems he and the selectors aren't getting along, and same seems to go with the coach and players. His batting ability and on field tactics have always been his strength but with Smith's form this summer and winning all the Tests, well, we certainly have a more viable alternative who seems to agree more with the powers that be.

 

[little graham]

Apparently Hughes wasn't interviewed for the book but verified lots of the stories, not sure if that makes sense, funny thing as a kid when Hughes was captain I definitely got the impression Marsh and Lillee were undermining him, might be called bullying these days.
As much as we all loved Lillee, you only have to watch him in replays to see he intimidated umpires too, I can vividly remember my old man used to rubbish him all the time, I could never understand why until today.

My English parents held similar views. Dad respected his abilities on the field, but not the man. Mum thought he was a nasty man, told him to his face one day.

 

[western royboy]

In summary - at that time - you were either of the Ian Chappell school of you were not. Most disputes / disagreements are along those lines. It's not that dissimilar from today.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

A few years ago I read a great book by Gideon Haigh about Jack Iverson which I then lent to my brother to read. In return he gave me the Kim Hughes book to read. I returned it to him within a week having only read the first few chapters, the sheer nastiness that was going on at the time was too much for this delicate petal and I couldn't stomach reading the whole book. Might try it again sometime when I am feeling a little more robust! (That reminds me, don't think I ever got my Gideon Haigh book back either ).

 

[Hellgood]

A few years ago I read a great book by Gideon Haigh about Jack Iverson which I then lent to my brother to read. In return he gave me the Kim Hughes book to read. I returned it to him within a week having only read the first few chapters, the sheer nastiness that was going on at the time was too much for this delicate petal and I couldn't stomach reading the whole book. Might try it again sometime when I am feeling a little more robust! (That reminds me, don't think I ever got my Gideon Haigh book back either ).

Really? The whole thing was grown men with enormous egos refusing to concede. Certainly hold a fair bit of sympathy for Hughes who had to put up with a lot of shit from the clique in Chappell, Lillee and Marsh but his ego was just as big as each of theirs was just that there was more of them! I suppose that's why they got so aggressive towards him.

 

[western royboy]

Really? The whole thing was grown men with enormous egos refusing to concede. Certainly hold a fair bit of sympathy for Hughes who had to put up with a lot of shit from the clique in Chappell, Lillee and Marsh but his ego was just as big as each of theirs was just that there was more of them! I suppose that's why they got so aggressive towards him.

The best innings in a Test Match that I've ever seen live was Kim Hughes v the Windies on Boxing Day 1981, it had everything. That said Hughes never appeared to push back against the power bloc, when other players queried why DK went after him in the nets, he just shook it off. It no doubt made him a better player but it also finished him a lot earlier than it should have. The Windies knew there was something in him that they could target and they targeted him like no one else. I often wonder if stuff from WSC colleagues was passed along which helped the Windies - but that's just thinking aloud.

 

[footyfan1978]

Kim Hughes certainly lived a full on cricket career. Some of his innings stick in mind as very special.
The Centenary Test from Lord's on our tv at night would have been remembered only as a boring draw if it was not for the great stroke making of Kim Hughes. Those innings and the one at the MCG versus West Indies were very very special.
He played at a real interesting time in world cricket and Australian cricket.
World Series Cricket was on, South Africa was out of the world cricket community for a long time and when the WSC players came back to the ACB he was part of the players that had to join back in the mix with the WSC Australians which in reality was the better players. Only really Allan Border, Rodney Hogg. Terry Alderman and Kim Hughes could easily retain a spot in the Australian Test side when that happened. With Lillee, Marsh and Chappell's back along with Hookesy. Bruce Laird, Doug Walters, Ray Bright, Len Pascoe and Rick McCosker there was bound to be a bit of weird feeling in the team getting back to a normal Test Aussie team. It was probably 60% WSC players in team straight after and a few years later South Africa were trying to organise teams to come to their country and play "Rebel Tours". This ended up happening. Kim Hughes was part of it a little while after he resigned as Australia Test captain when we were murdered by the powerful West Indies team of the time. I cannot recall the exact timing but was not connected in terms of him resigning but a few years later guys like Kim Hughes, Terry Alderman, Steve Smith, Mike Haysman, Carl Rackemann and Rod McCurdy were some of the players that were part of that Rebel Tour. Maybe even Hogg too. They were not in good books with Aussie cricket because of that so Kim Hughes in particular had a real interesting journey his whole cricket career.

Heard him on radio early in season. He was really passionate and fired up about the Michael Clarke situation. Basically he was sticking up for Clarke and not happy with Aussie administrators. He was basically swearing live on radio. It was riveting listening to at the time. I actually remember him mentioning Rod Marsh at the time and was surprised to hear him say that him and Marshy are now very good mates. So whatever happened with him, Marsh and Lillee a long time ago was clearly sorted out well in past but was somewhat interesting to hear stories as if he was treated like an outcast at times. Seems like it was overdone in terms of stories. I suspect he just had a different personality so they never hanged out socially with him. Not really surprising considering when world series cricket started up it was all those guys heading over to WSC and he was one of the few youngsters of the time was not established part of their group. Considering World Series Cricket went for just over two seasons they would have bonded strongly and when WSC finished and the Aussie side was back together he would have been a bit out of loop. For Allan Border it was different as he was not part of Aussie team before WSC cricket. Hughes was though although I'm not old enough to have seen the Australian Test side in 1977-78 which he would have been part of.

 

[Hellgood]

Kim Hughes certainly lived a full on cricket career. Some of his innings stick in mind as very special.
The Centenary Test from Lord's on our tv at night would have been remembered only as a boring draw if it was not for the great stroke making of Kim Hughes. Those innings and the one at the MCG versus West Indies were very very special.
He played at a real interesting time in world cricket and Australian cricket.
World Series Cricket was on, South Africa was out of the world cricket community for a long time and when the WSC players came back to the ACB he was part of the players that had to join back in the mix with the WSC Australians which in reality was the better players. Only really Allan Border, Rodney Hogg. Terry Alderman and Kim Hughes could easily retain a spot in the Australian Test side when that happened. With Lillee, Marsh and Chappell's back along with Hookesy. Bruce Laird, Doug Walters, Ray Bright, Len Pascoe and Rick McCosker there was bound to be a bit of weird feeling in the team getting back to a normal Test Aussie team. It was probably 60% WSC players in team straight after and a few years later South Africa were trying to organise teams to come to their country and play "Rebel Tours". This ended up happening. Kim Hughes was part of it a little while after he resigned as Australia Test captain when we were murdered by the powerful West Indies team of the time. I cannot recall the exact timing but was not connected in terms of him resigning but a few years later guys like Kim Hughes, Terry Alderman, Steve Smith, Mike Haysman, Carl Rackemann and Rod McCurdy were some of the players that were part of that Rebel Tour. Maybe even Hogg too. They were not in good books with Aussie cricket because of that so Kim Hughes in particular had a real interesting journey his whole cricket career.

Heard him on radio early in season. He was really passionate and fired up about the Michael Clarke situation. Basically he was sticking up for Clarke and not happy with Aussie administrators. He was basically swearing live on radio. It was riveting listening to at the time. I actually remember him mentioning Rod Marsh at the time and was surprised to hear him say that him and Marshy are now very good mates. So whatever happened with him, Marsh and Lillee a long time ago was clearly sorted out well in past but was somewhat interesting to hear stories as if he was treated like an outcast at times. Seems like it was overdone in terms of stories. I suspect he just had a different personality so they never hanged out socially with him. Not really surprising considering when world series cricket started up it was all those guys heading over to WSC and he was one of the few youngsters of the time was not established part of their group. Considering World Series Cricket went for just over two seasons they would have bonded strongly and when WSC finished and the Aussie side was back together he would have been a bit out of loop. For Allan Border it was different as he was not part of Aussie team before WSC cricket. Hughes was though although I'm not old enough to have seen the Australian Test side in 1977-78 which he would have been part of.

Hughes was just as much of a pub loving Aussie larrikin stereotype as the rest of them and some of his adventures with the Western Australian side are fairly legendary. It was more the resentment held towards him when he was made captain and made a few cutting comments about the WSC crew that things turned bad.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

I don't know about that. Seems he and the selectors aren't getting along, and same seems to go with the coach and players. His batting ability and on field tactics have always been his strength but with Smith's form this summer and winning all the Tests, well, we certainly have a more viable alternative who seems to agree more with the powers that be.

Pretty sure that didn't happen.