Injury/Rehab Knee injury question

[Bazzar]

Hey guys if you know you have a torn meniscus but you play footy anyway what will anything happen? I'm thinking more long term, i know its going to hurt.

Plenty of ice and nurofen to reduce the swelling, ice 20 minutes at least 3 - 4 times a day. (avoid booze and heat) then find a quality physiologist (not physiotherapist) for advice on the severity. Pre-hab, if surgery in involved is ultra important especially strengthening the quads, hamstrings, and calf stretching should also top priority.

 

[keyboard_warrior]

with the torn meniscus it depends on the size, shape and location as to what should be done with it. small undisplaced tears will often be left alone and you just do some hip and thigh strengthening stuff. bigger ears like your bucket handles need surgery and you are playing with fire if you try having a kick. if you play on it you risk tearing it more. if you do that, when it comes time to cut it out they will need to take a bigger chunk out, effectively changing the shape of the articulation a heap more. basically that will speed up any arthritic changes that will occur in your knee.

if its subtle, play on, if its a bit bigger then its probably not worth it, especially if you arent making money from footy or its not a last ditch effort to get drafted

 

[Cheryl Henderson]

A truly superior technology for image research is certainly MRI. It builds up 3D pictures of the human body with the help of magnetic electricity and radio signals. In the case of knee soreness medical diagnosis, 3-D photos of the knee’s insides are developed. Using MRI, delicate muscle traumas of your knee joint could be found immediately.

 

[nickrebellious]

Can anyone here recommend a good knee brace for a ruptured ACL? I'm still on the waiting list for surgery and it takes about a month to get to see my surgeon. Just want one for everyday use as I'm finding myself hurting my knee doing simple tasks.

 

[Bazzar]

Can anyone here recommend a good knee brace for a ruptured ACL? I'm still on the waiting list for surgery and it takes about a month to get to see my surgeon. Just want one for everyday use as I'm finding myself hurting my knee doing simple tasks.

Have you seen a good physiologist (not physio)

 

[nickrebellious]

Have you seen a good physiologist (not physio)

Well I was doing Physiotherapy. I reached a stage a few months ago were I couldn't progress anymore and had to maintain the level til surgery. I then hurt it again tearing more cartilage. My surgery is in the next 1-2 months and I don't have time in my week to see a physio at the moment. Thinking of just wearing a knee brace til the surgery.

I think a person there was a physiologist though.

 

[Bazzar]

Well I was doing Physiotherapy. I reached a stage a few months ago were I couldn't progress anymore and had to maintain the level til surgery. I then hurt it again tearing more cartilage. My surgery is in the next 1-2 months and I don't have time in my week to see a physio at the moment. Thinking of just wearing a knee brace til the surgery.

I think a person there was a physiologist though.

Massive difference between a physiologist and physiotherapist. Disregard the physiotherapist as they have no idea.
The one thing you need to be pointed in the right direction is "per-hab" Its 100% important you do it prior to surgery, and from what i was told a knee brace is next to useless. Has no bearing whats so ever on you torn cartilage and will make it worse as it will compress the inflammation thats in your knee.

You will only need to see a physiologist once or twice as he will give you a set program to strengthen all the muscles in your knee around the cartilage. I had both mine done in April, right minor, left major tear, and the advice from the physio and surgeon was to "hammer the s**t out of them" in building the muscle prior to surgery, and if i tore them a little worse it was no big deal as they were going to be repaired anyway.

I followed his program to the tee and was walking un-aided half an hour after recovery and 5 months on feel a million bucks. Still cant do full on gym/cardio as apparently it takes between 18-24 months for the tissue to fully repair as their is limited blood flow through the knee.

So good luck, and i hope all goes well.

 

[keyboard_warrior]

Massive difference between a physiologist and physiotherapist. Disregard the physiotherapist as they have no idea.
The one thing you need to be pointed in the right direction is "per-hab" Its 100% important you do it prior to surgery, and from what i was told a knee brace is next to useless. Has no bearing whats so ever on you torn cartilage and will make it worse as it will compress the inflammation thats in your knee.

You will only need to see a physiologist once or twice as he will give you a set program to strengthen all the muscles in your knee around the cartilage. I had both mine done in April, right minor, left major tear, and the advice from the physio and surgeon was to "hammer the s**t out of them" in building the muscle prior to surgery, and if i tore them a little worse it was no big deal as they were going to be repaired anyway.

I followed his program to the tee and was walking un-aided half an hour after recovery and 5 months on feel a million bucks. Still cant do full on gym/cardio as apparently it takes between 18-24 months for the tissue to fully repair as their is limited blood flow through the knee.

So good luck, and i hope all goes well.

u seem a little misguided here and im still not exactly sure on the advice you are giving.

what is this physiologist? exercise physiologist? if it is then what sort of training do they undergo in pathology and therapeutic exercise? pretty sure its close to nothing.

the kid was already given prehab but there is only so much you can do before you load up the meniscus again.

disregarding physio seems a pretty stupid piece of advice. they have at least 1 extra year undergrad training than ex phys (again assuming thats who your talking about) and have much better understanding of therapeutic exercise andknow how to progress things along with less risk of reinjury. of course there are some s**t ones but for the most part they are pretty good.

and the last thing is just a bit nit-picky but there arent any muscles in your knee or around your cartilage. the muscles you strengthen are in your thigh and over your hip

 

[Bazzar]

and the last thing is just a bit nit-picky but there arent any muscles in your knee or around your cartilage. the muscles you strengthen are in your thigh and over your hip

Fair enough if you dont like my opinion, but having just gone through meniscectomy on both knees im just telling it for how it was for me. I had a 12 week wait for my surgery, and I was getting treatment from a physiotherapist that included massage, ultrasound and 3 exercises, knee extensions, knee flexion/extension and seated knee extension, and was told to keep of my feet as much as possible. Then fortunately a chance conversation with a prominent tri athlete who had gone through it 2 years ago, didnt think to much of the treatment i was receiving and put me onto a particular physiologist. He also wasnt very complimentry on the treatment i was getting.

So he put me on a program for the ten weeks remaining. First three weeks was, twice a day. Quad setting - 20 reps 5 sec on, 1 sec off. Pelvic bridging 2x15. Side lying adduction leg raises 30 deg max 2x15. And calf stretching was extremely high on his list of must do. He gave me the measurements to make a small platform that was around 25deg and wanted 4 times a day @ 2 minutes. Also quad and hami stretching.

Then the remaining 7 weeks kept the above exercises and adding.- Total hip machine extension and total hip adduction both starting at 75kg and working up as i felt comfortable (ended up at the max 200kg) 3x10. Leg presses strict 45deg 3x10, and one legged step downs (100mm platform) 3x10.

I followed his program to the letter including stationary bike, rowing machine and un-weighted full body squats (heaps and heaps and heaps) Went in for surgery with totally rooted knees (not because of the exercises) and very strong and well stretched muscles primed for surgery. I was walking unaided an hour after being wheeled into recovery, and was back at the gym 2 days later on the bike. My surgeon said the recovery was remarkable and didnt know if it was his good work, the work of the physiologist, or just good luck, but the physiologist was adamant it was because of the strengthening and stretching of the muscles.

So i will never know, but i do wonder how different the outcome would have been if i had stayed with the physiotherapist massage and 3 basic exercises. Im tipping a big difference.

 

[keyboard_warrior]

Fair enough if you dont like my opinion, but having just gone through meniscectomy on both knees im just telling it for how it was for me. I had a 12 week wait for my surgery, and I was getting treatment from a physiotherapist that included massage, ultrasound and 3 exercises, knee extensions, knee flexion/extension and seated knee extension, and was told to keep of my feet as much as possible. Then fortunately a chance conversation with a prominent tri athlete who had gone through it 2 years ago, didnt think to much of the treatment i was receiving and put me onto a particular physiologist. He also wasnt very complimentry on the treatment i was getting.

So he put me on a program for the ten weeks remaining. First three weeks was, twice a day. Quad setting - 20 reps 5 sec on, 1 sec off. Pelvic bridging 2x15. Side lying adduction leg raises 30 deg max 2x15. And calf stretching was extremely high on his list of must do. He gave me the measurements to make a small platform that was around 25deg and wanted 4 times a day @ 2 minutes. Also quad and hami stretching.

Then the remaining 7 weeks kept the above exercises and adding.- Total hip machine extension and total hip adduction both starting at 75kg and working up as i felt comfortable (ended up at the max 200kg) 3x10. Leg presses strict 45deg 3x10, and one legged step downs (100mm platform) 3x10.

I followed his program to the letter including stationary bike, rowing machine and un-weighted full body squats (heaps and heaps and heaps) Went in for surgery with totally rooted knees (not because of the exercises) and very strong and well stretched muscles primed for surgery. I was walking unaided an hour after being wheeled into recovery, and was back at the gym 2 days later on the bike. My surgeon said the recovery was remarkable and didnt know if it was his good work, the work of the physiologist, or just good luck, but the physiologist was adamant it was because of the strengthening and stretching of the muscles.

So i will never know, but i do wonder how different the outcome would have been if i had stayed with the physiotherapist massage and 3 basic exercises. Im tipping a big difference.

with that experience from a physio its understandable ur resent. ultrasound doesnt work, massage will be of little help but still ok and the exercises are fine for muscle activation but definitely need to be progressed onto similar stuff as what you did. the physio sounds like a pleb and had no idea what to do.

u definitely targeted the right areas. exactly what a descent physio would do except probably not the machine work. just exercising the same muscle in other ways.

 

[Big Bryza]

Im requiring a reco on my knee after tearing my ACL, medial, LCL and meniscus at footy. The surgeon has assessed it and wants the knee to settle down a bit more before surgery to allow a better recovery. Im seeing a physio who is doing a great job. I'm currently completing my 'pre hab' in preparation for surgery. The surgeon has me wearing a hinged brace which helps enormously in terms of protection and comfort. This pre hab whilst extremely tedious will be beneficial post surgery and hopefully allow me to get back on my feet faster. The main thing that sucks is no sport for 12 months after the op. I'm actually really excited to get stuck in to my rehab after the surgery, setting myself goals and ticking them off along the way. I'm pretty good with motivating myself to exercise so I know I'll be ok. The initial shock of the injury sucks, but the important thing with an injury like this is remaining positive, and being extremely thorough with your rehab.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Joining the torn ACL party recently got the results of an MRI back from a basketball injury seven weeks ago, managed to last 30 minutes into the season.

Obviously I'm preparing to see surgeons and the like, but is there any pre-rehab advice that anyone can share?

 

[ajsuperstar]

Joining the torn ACL party recently got the results of an MRI back from a basketball injury seven weeks ago, managed to last 30 minutes into the season.

Obviously I'm preparing to see surgeons and the like, but is there any pre-rehab advice that anyone can share?

Hey bro im about 5 months into rehab now. Basically for prehab the physio got me doing a lot of sqauts and range of motion exercises. Also try to get the swelling down as fast you can if you havent already and maybe hit a stationary bike every now and then. But i think the most important part is to be able to straighten the leg and be able to lock the knee past 180 degrees if you know what I mean (not a good description). Lift and hold for about 10 seconds, back down then again and again etc. Add some weight to the ankle when it becomes to easy as regaining quad strength is very important.
Any more questions im happy to help. Good luck with everything mate

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Hey bro im about 5 months into rehab now. Basically for prehab the physio got me doing a lot of sqauts and range of motion exercises. Also try to get the swelling down as fast you can if you havent already and maybe hit a stationary bike every now and then. But i think the most important part is to be able to straighten the leg and be able to lock the knee past 180 degrees if you know what I mean (not a good description). Lift and hold for about 10 seconds, back down then again and again etc. Add some weight to the ankle when it becomes to easy as regaining quad strength is very important.
Any more questions im happy to help. Good luck with everything mate

Cheers for the reply mate.

Yeah I've spend the seven weeks getting treatment from my OT, she wanted to get the swelling down before going for the MRI so the knee has next to no swelling at the moment.

Struggling with bikes because my knee locks up before I can get a full rotation, but not having too many issues getting the knee to 180 degrees (I do get what you mean by that haha, it is hard to put into words!) so I guess I'll just keep working at that.

How have you found the five months to now? Prospect of no sport for a year is pretty crushing, especially when that was all I really wanted to get out of my last year before going into full-time work.

 

[CallumBartlett]

Re: Knee injury question-

Hey guys pretty shattered just found out i have ruptured my acl... anybody have any advice on how to get through it, anybody else done the same thing?

One of my best mates did his ACL, he said the first 3-4 months are the easiest, he was even jogging after 3 months though apparently it took him 6 months to change direction, which is the hardest part. It's been two years and he still has problems with confidence in it, even though it's fully healed, a lot is up to the mind after you recover.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

One of my best mates did his ACL, he said the first 3-4 months are the easiest, he was even jogging after 3 months though apparently it took him 6 months to change direction, which is the hardest part. It's been two years and he still has problems with confidence in it, even though it's fully healed, a lot is up to the mind after you recover.

I've gathered as much too, especially with the way I tore my ACL in the first place, it's the kind of action that probably comes up about 20-30 times a season and I don't know how much confidence I'll have trying to do the same thing again.

Still, the prospect of being able to jog earlyish is positive.

 

[JRoo]

Re: Knee injury question-


I had a torn meniscus a year ago. The cartledge in the knee is basically an impact injury. If you get pain when running from the impact of your foot hitting the ground, jumping is very painful if you have a torn meniscus and also kicking a ball because the impact just goes through your whole leg and you do it 3-4 times and you will be limping for the next hour or two. Not to mention if you do some serious running you will struggle to get into a car, walk upstairs the rest of that day plus the next day or two.

It seems I had a minor tear to my meniscus about 2 months ago; I'd run 2 half marathons and a 5 km and a 15 km run all in 1 week. I had all of the signs and have been using the P.R.I.C.E principle in managing the injury without resorting to surgey.

 

[Borshk]

Would appreciate any feedback on the following:

The other night I was at work. I made a slightly awkward movement to get through a tight space (i was in the store-room) and my left knee slightly "popped". I didnt think anything of it. I just continued on. I have had no pain, no swelling, no nothing since it happened- been almost 2 days now. When it happened, I literally just laughed it off and continued working. I can do all the movements that i can do in my right knee and it feels structurally stable as it was before. I even went for a 3k run yesterday with some hill sprints. Again, no pain, no nothing (even bettered my 3k time ).

However, the only problem is that my knee has felt "empty" (thats the only way i can think of describing it). Im most likely overreacting, but i would like to see what you guys would recommend? I would hate to go to a physio and just waste their time if there was absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Does anyone think i could have done some damage but just dont know about it??

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I'll also throw up another query;

I had reconstructive surgery completed on Friday, damage was just a completely torn ACL, other structures around the knee were completely fine and did not need repair. I found by Monday I could walk with a limp without needing crutches. Does this seem to be an excessively small time frame to be able to achieve this in, or is it about the norm if you don't have much other structural damage? I was a bit concerned at first because it didn't feel all that different to how the knee felt post-tear when I was walking, so I wasn't sure whether the graft hadn't taken or something, but that might be paranoia. I'm just not sure whether I'm pushing my body too hard with rehab and recovery, or whether this should be expected. Anyone shedding any light on this, or their own experience would be fantastic.

 

[mattyflux]

I'll also throw up another query;

I had reconstructive surgery completed on Friday, damage was just a completely torn ACL, other structures around the knee were completely fine and did not need repair. I found by Monday I could walk with a limp without needing crutches. Does this seem to be an excessively small time frame to be able to achieve this in, or is it about the norm if you don't have much other structural damage? I was a bit concerned at first because it didn't feel all that different to how the knee felt post-tear when I was walking, so I wasn't sure whether the graft hadn't taken or something, but that might be paranoia. I'm just not sure whether I'm pushing my body too hard with rehab and recovery, or whether this should be expected. Anyone shedding any light on this, or their own experience would be fantastic.

Hey mate, bit of a late reply but what you experienced sounded perfectly fine for post ACL surgery without any other damage. It is usually the ACL repairs coupled with a meniscal repair that are slower to heal and people have more difficulty regaining full extension. It basically sounds like the surgeon did a top job. The hardest thing for you now is that you are going to be feeling really good but your graft will weaken over the first 3 months following surgery. This makes things frustrating because you will actually be at the most vulnerable stage at the 3 month mark then everything will gradually strengthen up over the following months. That is why most surgeons wont allow any running until the 4 month mark and changing direction will commence around the 6 month mark.
Just in case, if the graft didn't take then your knee would feel unstable and give way on you with any action that involves a mild pivot or twist. It would most likely swell after an incident like this as well. So basically if you have no instability then your ACL is most likely going well. Just be patient with it and be dilligent with your rehabilitation.

 

[mattyflux]

Fair enough if you dont like my opinion, but having just gone through meniscectomy on both knees im just telling it for how it was for me. I had a 12 week wait for my surgery, and I was getting treatment from a physiotherapist that included massage, ultrasound and 3 exercises, knee extensions, knee flexion/extension and seated knee extension, and was told to keep of my feet as much as possible. Then fortunately a chance conversation with a prominent tri athlete who had gone through it 2 years ago, didnt think to much of the treatment i was receiving and put me onto a particular physiologist. He also wasnt very complimentry on the treatment i was getting.

So he put me on a program for the ten weeks remaining. First three weeks was, twice a day. Quad setting - 20 reps 5 sec on, 1 sec off. Pelvic bridging 2x15. Side lying adduction leg raises 30 deg max 2x15. And calf stretching was extremely high on his list of must do. He gave me the measurements to make a small platform that was around 25deg and wanted 4 times a day @ 2 minutes. Also quad and hami stretching.

Then the remaining 7 weeks kept the above exercises and adding.- Total hip machine extension and total hip adduction both starting at 75kg and working up as i felt comfortable (ended up at the max 200kg) 3x10. Leg presses strict 45deg 3x10, and one legged step downs (100mm platform) 3x10.

I followed his program to the letter including stationary bike, rowing machine and un-weighted full body squats (heaps and heaps and heaps) Went in for surgery with totally rooted knees (not because of the exercises) and very strong and well stretched muscles primed for surgery. I was walking unaided an hour after being wheeled into recovery, and was back at the gym 2 days later on the bike. My surgeon said the recovery was remarkable and didnt know if it was his good work, the work of the physiologist, or just good luck, but the physiologist was adamant it was because of the strengthening and stretching of the muscles.

So i will never know, but i do wonder how different the outcome would have been if i had stayed with the physiotherapist massage and 3 basic exercises. Im tipping a big difference.

Hey mate, just wanted to shed some light on your experience with the physio and ex physiologist. Coming from a physio myself your original physio had no idea! Anyone who keeps up to date on current research knows that ultrasound would not help in your situation! The exercises that he gave you were all wrong as well so its disappointing to hear that someone with the same qualification would prescribe that for you. Basically the exercises your exercise physiologist gave you would be simialr to what your average physio would prescribe. To strengthen the knees while putting minimal load through them you need to be doing closed kinematic chain exercises (or exercises with your foot fixed). Things like squats, lunges, leg press, bike if done woth proper technique are all beneficial. Basic stretches to the major muscle groups around the knee help to deload the knee as well and strengthening the gluteals to provide stability of the hip is important as well.
Your exercise physiologist sounds like he did a fine job so good on him but I hope your bad experience with one poor excuse for a physio doesn't taint your view on the profession for good!
From my experience, the biggest factor contributing to a speedy recovery is actually the surgery itself. If the surgeon does a clean, precise job and in good time I find this makes for a much better recovery moreso than any prehab or even rehabilitation programs. As much as I would like to say it all comes down to my conditioning programs I believe the process of the surgery is the biggest factor. Having said that, I think if you persisted with your physio and his poor exercise regime you would have recovered more slowly because some of those exercises could have in fact increased your pain and put extra loading through your patellofemoral joint and created muscle imbalances between your lateral and medial quads.
Anyway, I hope that clears some things up about physio's in general and all the best with your recovery over the coming months.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Hey mate, bit of a late reply but what you experienced sounded perfectly fine for post ACL surgery without any other damage. It is usually the ACL repairs coupled with a meniscal repair that are slower to heal and people have more difficulty regaining full extension. It basically sounds like the surgeon did a top job. The hardest thing for you now is that you are going to be feeling really good but your graft will weaken over the first 3 months following surgery. This makes things frustrating because you will actually be at the most vulnerable stage at the 3 month mark then everything will gradually strengthen up over the following months. That is why most surgeons wont allow any running until the 4 month mark and changing direction will commence around the 6 month mark.
Just in case, if the graft didn't take then your knee would feel unstable and give way on you with any action that involves a mild pivot or twist. It would most likely swell after an incident like this as well. So basically if you have no instability then your ACL is most likely going well. Just be patient with it and be dilligent with your rehabilitation.

Thanks, appreciate the reply greatly.

A month in and all seems to be going well.

 

[Jamezy88]

Hi all i'm another with a knee injury looking for advice.

I fell off a dirt bike about 10 weeks ago, and my knee me giving me trouble ever since, so i went and seen a surgeon got a MRI and it showed that i have a complete tear of my PCL. The surgeon said beacuse im young (24) and pretty active he would lean towards reconstructing it however he also said there is the obtion of straight physio and building up my legs mussels and i may get away with not having sugery. i'm currenly a full time student so if i was to have sugery i could cope with out being particulary active for a while.

I've had quite a few mates who have torn ACL's and i know they need to be reconstructed, but i havernt herd much about PCL's even the surgeon said it was quite rare.. Has anyone on here done one? and if so did u have surgery or just straight physio and how did it go?