Kobe

[WoD]

gretzky does not have chamberlain numbers, they far exceed chamberlain
yes chamberlain may have averaged 50 points in a season, but look at total points over a career and u dont have him at the top, look at total points for gretzky and u have him well well well at the top, with more assists than other players have points, chuck on another 894 points in goals and there you go
just because ppl dont follow ice hockey here does not mean its not popular
its one of the biggest sport in the 'two biggest continents in the world' and easily the biggest in canada

 

[Kenny_01]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Originally posted by jod23
He wont get a mention either simply because Cricket isnt a world sport. Cricket isnt played in Europe or the States...two of the biggest continents in the world. It is only really played in England, Australia (a fairly small country remember) and all across the sub continent.

What about Pele or Maradona? Are they as big/bigger names than Jordan?

 

[WoD]

very good point
soccers the worlds most popular sport, but im sure because a few ppl in here dont follow soccer they wont rank

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by WoD
gretzky does not have chamberlain numbers, they far exceed chamberlain

So it'd be silly to call Marian Gaborik the next Wayne Gretzky?

 

[jod23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Originally posted by Denno
Ok.

While I'm a huge fan of Jordan, the only reason he was so widely known was because of his exposure thru TV etc. - not because he was approx. 40% better * than any other player.

Gretsky, Bradman etc. aren't worldwide household names - but that's got everything to do with their respective sports - not them as individuals.

Jordan gets mentioned in the same breath as Magic, Bird, Chamberlain, etc. Bradman has no peer.

Basketball was a world game before Jordan came along - IMO, it would be just as big now if he hadn't have arrived. He dominated his chosen sport - just as Bradman did.

* quoted from another post

Yeah Bradman has no peer...but what makes you think Jordan does? All talks about the greatest ever start with MJ....then you rank the rest after him.

Michael Jordan has no peer.

 

[jod23]

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Originally posted by Falchoon
Biggest continents? USA 300 million, Europe 450 million

v only the sub continent, a casual billion and a half

as I said before how many foreign nations when Jordan was entering his peak even considered basketball one of their top 5 sports? How many foreigners did he come up against each week, Ill give you a start, Detlef Schrempf, Hakeem, Mutumbo, who else? Bill Wennington? the only other one I can think of at the time was the guy who got killed in the car accident in Germany, starts with M?

Jordan really only competed against 1 countries top athletes.

When I said "biggest continents" Did I say biggest continents regarding population? No I didnt. But did you jump the gun and look like an idiot? Yes.

Europe and the US are the biggest continents in the world picture, on the world stage so to say. I never said population.

Jordan was winning championships in 1998 and their was a host of foreign players in the NBA. Early in his career a foreign player was a novelty but in the mid 90's it has steadily risen and Jordan faced a lot of foreign players in his career? Besided what does that have to do anything? Foreign players arent half the basketball players that American players are.

The all time greats?? Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Wilt, Russell, Baylor, West, Kareem etc etc....all Americans. Their are a few exceptions with Hakeem, Ewing etc... but it is rare.

Look at today's game too...sure the Euro boom is great and there are some real talented players from outside the US like Nowitzski, Ming, Gasol, Stojakovic etc but you will still find that the top ballers in the world are American....Shaq, T-Mac, Kobe, Iverson, Garnett, Payton, Peirce...the list goes on and on.

 

[jod23]

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Originally posted by Kenny_01
What about Pele or Maradona? Are they as big/bigger names than Jordan?

Certainly as big....as these guys reach the same sort of audience that MJ reached. When you talk legends of sport in 100 years you will speak about Muhammed Ali, Michael Jordan, Pele but you wont talk about Gretzky or Bradman.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Originally posted by jod23
Foreign players arent half the basketball players that American players are.

The all time greats?? Jordan, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Wilt, Russell, Baylor, West, Kareem etc etc....all Americans. Their are a few exceptions with Hakeem, Ewing etc... but it is rare.

Look at today's game too...sure the Euro boom is great and there are some real talented players from outside the US like Nowitzski, Ming, Gasol, Stojakovic etc but you will still find that the top ballers in the world are American....Shaq, T-Mac, Kobe, Iverson, Garnett, Payton, Peirce...the list goes on and on.

Talk about missing the point

All you've done is confirm Falchoon's point, unwittingly.

Ah, you're good value jod.

 

[WoD]

was that marion gaborik comment supposed to be a joke or wot?

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Originally posted by jod23
Certainly as big....as these guys reach the same sort of audience that MJ reached. When you talk legends of sport in 100 years you will speak about Muhammed Ali, Michael Jordan, Pele

Didn't you say earlier that Jordan's ONLY peer was Ali?

Contradictions abound.

 

[jod23]

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Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Talk about missing the point

All you've done is confirm Falchoon's point, unwittingly.

Ah, you're good value jod.

lol.... I think P&P is a little lost

 

[jod23]

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Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Didn't you say earlier that Jordan's ONLY peer was Ali?

Contradictions abound.

Yes I did and I stick by that. Just because I said that in 100 years Pele will be talked about...that doesnt mean he is on MJ's level.

No contradictions...but hey, whatever you say P&P...that's how you operate.

 

[Kenny_01]

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Originally posted by jod23
Yes I did and I stick by that. Just because I said that in 100 years Pele will be talked about...that doesnt mean he is on MJ's level.

No contradictions...but hey, whatever you say P&P...that's how you operate.

If you don't think Pele is as big of a name as Jordan is around the world, then you are clueless my friend.

 

[Kenny_01]

One more thing Jod. After reading all these posts, you would come close to being the most arrogant poster on BF.

Your view is not the world view...

Ever wonder why so many people disagree with you?

 

[thehardaway]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
After reading all these posts, you would come close to being the most arrogant poster on BF.

I'm sure he would disagree with that

 

[Portmanteau]

I have to say I agree with Jod.

Jordan, Ali, Pele... these are huge international personalities brought forth due to their unbelievable sporting abilities.

Bradman, Gretzky etc. while arguably having being legendary in their own right through statistical achievements, are not at the heroic level that the aforementioned names are. It's not about that unmatched nature of their stats, its about their symbolic status - their image as super-humans and tales of rising through the ranks which gives them such aura.

 

[Falchoon]

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Originally posted by jod23
lol.... I think P&P is a little lost

no, I think he's on the money.

you wrote

Originally posted by jod23
He wont get a mention either simply because Cricket isnt a world sport. Cricket isnt played in Europe or the States...two of the biggest continents in the world. It is only really played in England, Australia (a fairly small country remember) and all across the sub continent.

I then wrote

Originally posted by Falchoon
when Jordan was at his peak how many foreign players were playing in the NBA? I'd hazard a guess at less than a dozen, certainly no more than 20. Medals in Olympics? how many countries had basketball in their top 2 sports? Australia came 4th in 1988, I was in year 11 at school and I had never played a game, the game was (and is) still struggling for acceptance in a country of 16 million that came fourth at the olympics, how big could it have been elsewhere?

to which you replied

Originally posted by jod23

Early in his career a foreign player was a novelty but in the mid 90's it has steadily risen and Jordan faced a lot of foreign players in his career? Besided what does that have to do anything? Foreign players arent half the basketball players that American players are.

so you.ve basically backed up my point that Bradman's competing against only a few countries is not a negative v Jordan

I'll refrain from calling you an idiot, but I'd put blind in front of idiot if I did.

 

[Falchoon]

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Originally posted by jod23
When I said "biggest continents" Did I say biggest continents regarding population? No I didnt. But did you jump the gun and look like an idiot? Yes.

Europe and the US are the biggest continents in the world picture, on the world stage so to say. I never said population.

Ah, so that's what I should have assumed? Fair leap!
Where is this world stage anyway? Your television access? English language press?

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Falchoon,

You know what they say about entering a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Cheers

 

[Falchoon]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Falchoon,

You know what they say about entering a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Cheers

What do they say about battling wits with a "basketball guru"?

 

[thehardaway]

Originally posted by Falchoon
What do they say about battling wits with a "basketball guru"?

Self-proclaimed basketball guru

 

[WoD]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Originally posted by jod23
Yes I did and I stick by that. Just because I said that in 100 years Pele will be talked about...that doesnt mean he is on MJ's level.

No contradictions...but hey, whatever you say P&P...that's how you operate.

no just because you personally dont think pele is on jordans level doesnt mean he isnt to the whole of the soccer world

 

[coxon]

Originally posted by Falchoon
In raw figures Bradman was 40% better than the next best player.

in basketball, and soccer, it would be harder to use raw figures to prove how much better a player was against another... basketball & soccer, are team sports... and there are too many facets of the game to track, different positions... quite difficult to prove that pele was head and shoulders above another player by using goals scored, or goals saved etc..

whereas in cricket.... eg. as a batsmen.. simply, its runs, runs, & runs...

 

[jod23]

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Originally posted by Kenny_01
If you don't think Pele is as big of a name as Jordan is around the world, then you are clueless my friend.

Putting words in my mouth again...people seem to do this a lot. I never said Pele wasnt as big as MJ, he is as big as MJ just not on Jordan's level. Jordan has impacted on the world on a larger scale and this is probably due to the time in which his career has happened. With TV, Radio, the Internet...Jordan has reached more people than Pele did all those years ago. That's what Im saying.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Kenny_01
One more thing Jod. After reading all these posts, you would come close to being the most arrogant poster on BF.

Your view is not the world view...

Ever wonder why so many people disagree with you?

Let's not get carried away Kenny.