VFL Lance Collard Tribunal hearing

[Nutsngum]

The cope and seething in here is amazing. Imagine throwing away your entire club's culture and work around the pride round, etc to protect a VFL player who has already been found guilty once before for the same incident.

He testified under a legal oath that he did not do what he was accused of. Its sad that Port would abandon one of its players who protest their innocence against all accusations but I guess Port and its supporters are just kind of scummy people.

 

[Now is the time]

3AW posted a audio clip of them talking about it as the news broke.. pretty sure it was Rory Sloane who said that you don’t hear the word ‘maggot’ used very often so it’s hard to believe that it was said over the F variety.

Isn’t that exactly what is wrong with this situation?

A white guy that is 15 years older than Lance has a hard time believing that Lance might be innocent because he doesn’t hear the word said often amongst himself of his peers.

If you haven’t lived or attempted to understand where Lance is from, how can you know if it is a word that is said frequently in that environment or not?

Everyone looking for a headline to remain relevant

Obviously has never been in a crowd at the footy and heard “green maggots”, the umpires wearing green

Bit like describing someone as a slag - because slag drops to the bottom

 

[beside the seaside]

I think a big part of the decision would have been not wanting to discourage players from coming forward and reporting. Darby said in his statement "we do the modules and they encourage you to speak up" - they would have felt that no one will speak up any more if they found him not-guilty.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

One of the LGBTIQA+ ones seeing the response to this?

I can try but might be difficult

Not everyone in every group feels the same about everything.

This person seems to be part of that LGBTIQA+ cohort.

 

[phantom13]

Everyone looking for a headline to remain relevant

Obviously has never been in a crowd at the footy and heard “green maggots”, the umpires wearing green

Bit like describing someone as a slag - because slag drops to the bottom

I’m both old enough to have heard maggot for a long time and now also not heard it for a long time so I can sort of see both sides of the argument here.

It’s not quite as simple as just boiling it down to whether there is some truth to him using maggot a lot. He has a prior for using the exact word he’s accused of using and clearly had a discipline issue given this whole thing kicked off over him cheap shotting a bloke.

I think if you can believe that Lance didn’t say it and wanna say “understand his position” then you should be able to say the same of the multiple accusers.

 

[jwikked]

I think if you can believe that Lance didn’t say it and wanna say “understand his position” then you should be able to say the same of the multiple accusers.

I think he probably did say it, but it doesn't matter. The burden of proof needs to be much higher than what was shown.

The two "witnesses" were clearly coached through this process, told what to do and what to say. And it doesn't line up with the umpires view of the events.

How this could be seen as enough to determine guilt is crazy. I hope St Kilda challenge this, and I hope the entire chain of events is uncovered publicly. It's clear the AFL are trying to pull the strings here, as evidenced by the news dropping at 6:58pm on Friday night.

 

[phantom13]

Not everyone in every group feels the same about everything.

This person seems to be part of that LGBTIQA+ cohort.

So that person speaks for all but others don’t? The AFL made it clear that you say this stuff you get suspended, they didn’t do that in a vacuum.

I mean the original point there was about whether this could qualify as slander so the “put yourself in the players shoes” comment doesn’t make sense to start with. As it stands right now he’s been found to have said in the tribunal, we can all (me included) bemoan how ****ed that process was and support Lance and an appeal but there’s no slander nor follow up for the accusers as of right now.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

So that person speaks for all but others don’t? The AFL made it clear that you say this stuff you get suspended, they didn’t do that in a vacuum.

I mean the original point there was about whether this could qualify as slander so the “put yourself in the players shoes” comment doesn’t make sense to start with. As it stands right now he’s been found to have said in the tribunal, we can all (me included) bemoan how ****ed that process was and support Lance and an appeal but there’s no slander nor follow up for the accusers as of right now.

Where did I say they speak for all?

I specifically said “Not everyone in every group feels the same about everything.”

It’s clear from your posting on this topic over the last few days that you are heavy invested in this issue but stop jumping at shadows.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

3AW posted a audio clip of them talking about it as the news broke.. pretty sure it was Rory Sloane who said that you don’t hear the word ‘maggot’ used very often so it’s hard to believe that it was said over the F variety.

Isn’t that exactly what is wrong with this situation?

A white guy that is 15 years older than Lance has a hard time believing that Lance might be innocent because he doesn’t hear the word said often amongst himself of his peers.

If you haven’t lived or attempted to understand where Lance is from, how can you know if it is a word that is said frequently in that environment or not?

It is a word that has fallen out use a bit.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Apparently the AFL found a further 3 witnesses.

A Mr Jussie Smollett, a Mr Milli and a Mr Vanilli.

Mr Vanilli died of a drug overdose so that is a pretty neat trick

 

[phantom13]

I think he probably did say it, but it doesn't matter. The burden of proof needs to be much higher than what was shown.

The two "witnesses" were clearly coached through this process, told what to do and what to say. And it doesn't line up with the umpires view of the events.

How this could be seen as enough to determine guilt is crazy. I hope St Kilda challenge this, and I hope the entire chain of events is uncovered publicly. It's clear the AFL are trying to pull the strings here, as evidenced by the news dropping at 6:58pm on Friday night.

I agree with all this except to note that they did satisfy the burden of proof according to their own rules, which is obviously an issue of itself.

I have a real issue with the continued line of shit being thrown at the accusers though. If you believe that Lance probably did say it then they have done the right thing and continuing to imply they haven’t whether it be they should have abided by some code or that they’ve been coerced by the AFL they should be supported either way.

 

[phantom13]

Where did I say they speak for all?

I specifically said “Not everyone in every group feels the same about everything.”

It’s clear from your posting on this topic over the last few days that you are heavy invested in this issue but stop jumping at shadows.

Fair enough, it seems pretty obviously implied that you support that persons position that suspending him is the wrong course of action. I don’t agree with that.

 

[jwikked]

I agree with all this except to note that they did satisfy the burden of proof according to their own rules, which is obviously an issue of itself.

I have a real issue with the continued line of shit being thrown at the accusers though. If you believe that Lance probably did say it then they have done the right thing and continuing to imply they haven’t whether it be they should have abided by some code or that they’ve been coerced by the AFL they should be supported either way.

They clearly were coerced by the AFL, though. At least one of them admitted it during questioning.

So do they feel strongly enough to do what's (supposedly) right, or did they need their arm twisted?

Were they just looking for a 50 meter penalty on field, or was he fighting the good fight against homophobia?

It seems to me like they didn't want things to go this far.

 

[phantom13]

They clearly were coerced by the AFL, though. At least one of them admitted it during questioning.

… sure. Forest for the trees.

 

[Sir Owens]

Hopefully the club appeals. Lance is the real victim here.

 

[Captain Paddy]

It is a word that has fallen out use a bit.

Yeah but the point is - just because you don’t hear it, doesn’t mean it isn’t said.

Do you say Skibidi Toilet?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Fair enough, it seems pretty obviously implied that you support that persons position that suspending him is the wrong course of action. I don’t agree with that.

I was literally saying not all LGBTQ+ people think the same.

I know gay men who don’t like the whole Mardi Gras parade stuff. Others do. Some like the drag queen stuff and others don’t.

Some LGBTQ+ people would think Lance needs to feel the full force of a huge suspension but there are others who would have the opposite view.

I don’t support the persons view (nor am I against it). I simply posted it to show it’s not a black and white issue regardless of which minority group you may belong to.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Mate, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I make no comment as to whether Lance said it or didn’t say it. However some of us are just trying to have a bit of a laugh after a very exhausting and trying 48 hours or so.

And I’d love you to show me where I made those comments re “the last time” (the time where Lance admitted it straight away so your comments don’t make much sense).

The only times you seem to respond to my posts these days is to throw up “fan boi”, “love child” type digs.

Anyway if you’re going to take everything literally then best you don’t respond to anything I post.

I never mentioned fan Boi i so what are you on about, you like deleting your posts it looks like as you clearly said last time Lance got done for his foul mouth that you didn't believe it even though every second person at the ground heard it , that's fine old mate , keep living in wonderland

 

[phantom13]

I was literally saying not all LGBTQ+ people think the same.

I know gay men who don’t like the whole Mardi Gras parade stuff. Others do. Some like the drag queen stuff and others don’t.

Some LGBTQ+ people would think Lance needs to feel the full force of a huge suspension but there are others who would have the opposite view.

I don’t support the persons view (nor am I against it). I simply posted it to show it’s not a black and white issue regardless of which minority group you may belong to.

All a bit moot when the afl has made it clear that language won’t be tolerated in its environment though isn’t it. Given pretty much every single workplace in Aus or the rest of the western world is the same maybe just don’t say it

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I never mentioned fan Boi i so what are you on about, you like deleting your posts it looks like as you clearly said last time Lance got done for his foul mouth that you didn't believe it even though every second person at the ground heard it , that's fine old mate , keep living in wonderland

• You’ve mentioned fan boi on numerous occasions over the years.

• I never delete posts.

• I never said those things “last time” (yeah Lance said he said it and I said Lance didn’t say it )

I’d rather live in wonderland than in the waiting room at the Psych ward.

Seriously you’ve morphed into plugger66 sitting back and taking shots at people (and I’m only one of them)

For gods sake ignore my posts.

 

[The Cobra]

Guilty, not guilty - only Collard and 1 or 2 others know the truth.

What I am pretty sure of is that the Tribunal and the AFL have been twisting themselves like a pretzel for the last 24 hours to work out what result they think they can justify and the Saints not take it further.

My guess - plenty of calls to the Saints - AFL say maybe if we come up with some convoluted logic and give him 6 weeks, he saves his career and Saints drop any appeal.

The Boys Club at work!

 

[jwikked]

My guess - plenty of calls to the Saints - AFL say maybe if we come up with some convoluted logic and give him 6 weeks, he saves his career and Saints drop any appeal.

Simplest thing to do would be to go with inconclusive evidence, but a significant suspended sentence - 20+ games.

Lets him get on with his life, with the punishment hanging over his head if he actually does say one of the 3 evil words that can't be said on field.

 

[Sully111]

If he gets 10 weeks, it's not career ending.

He should get 10 weeks... they found him guilty... second offence.... first was 6.

If they say he's guilty they have to give him a longer ban than last time. Simple logic.

I'm purely talking about the system that is in place... not what's right or wrong, or if the verdict is justified.

 

[CaptainRisky]

• You’ve mentioned fan boi on numerous occasions over the years.

• I never delete posts.

• I never said those things “last time” (yeah Lance said he said it and I said Lance didn’t say it )

I’d rather live in wonderland than in the waiting room at the Psych ward.

Seriously you’ve morphed into plugger66 sitting back and taking shots at people (and I’m only one of them)

For gods sake ignore my posts.

Don't cry old mate, it's not that bad, I for one have more in my life than trying to be Mr funny man of the forum xxx

 

[Diehard Saint]

“Any penalty” is the issue.

We don’t know the penalty.

I’d assume it’s going to be harsh and we will appeal but this whole thing has been a ****ing circus. I don’t think it’s beyond the AFL to split the difference here to avoid the appeal (where their process will be torn to shreds) and negotiate something down.

Yep that’s what I surmised.
Some weeks ( 6?) and a suspended sentence for the rest.