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Leg Spinners.

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SparklingAle69

SparklingAle69

All Australian
Sep 21, 2024
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AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Hope this deserves some discussion. Why hasn't there been a great leg spin bowler since Warney? Excellent quick bowlers are dime a dozen since the dawn of time. Is it a really hard craft to master? Match winning leggys are rare as dinosaur poo.
 
SparklingAle69 said:
Hope this deserves some discussion. Why hasn't there been a great leg spin bowler since Warney? Excellent quick bowlers are dime a dozen since the dawn of time. Is it a really hard craft to master? Match winning leggys are rare as dinosaur poo.
Click to expand...

Yasir Shah flirted with greatness for a little while, he broke some records from memory for fastest player to certain landmarks and finished his career with over 200 wickets at a tick over 31; as far as leg spinners go that’s ALMOST great, falls a little short but to be honest there’s only really been Warne, Kumble, Qadir, Benaud, Kaneria, Chandrasekhar and Grimmett I think that have taken more than 200.

Other than Yasir?

The next most successful since Warne?


Why that would be Devendra Bishoo. 117 at 37

With batsmen so much more willing to attack I think captains and teams in general almost at all levels are so much more wary of anything that increases the risk of losing control of the game
 
SparklingAle69 said:
Hope this deserves some discussion. Why hasn't there been a great leg spin bowler since Warney? Excellent quick bowlers are dime a dozen since the dawn of time. Is it a really hard craft to master? Match winning leggys are rare as dinosaur poo.
Click to expand...
Bear in mind, Warne was as much a freak as Murali was. Top class leggies approach the crease substantially faster than Warne did, and don't control their pace with their shoulders the way he did; essentially, because he controlled everything about his action within the action himself, there was just so, so much that could go wrong. His stock delivery had such variety because of it, but trying to copy Warne doesn't work because no captain or coach is going to teach you to bowl the way he bowled because of the massive margin for error.

Let me put it this way: there's almost more similarity between the famous John Howard half pitcher and Warne's stock ball than Warne and Yasir Shah or Rashid Khan.

That's the first bit: Warne was a physiological and technical freak. The second bit is that due to the change in techniques due to the proliferation of one day and shorter forms and the reducing levels of long form cricket at all levels, where once a developing leggie could safely trundle away playing 3's and bowling 20-30 overs a week until they were ready and had the muscle memory, young leggies are now bowling 10 overs max and trying not to get hit rather being the matchwinner.

And yes, leggies are the technically hardest thing to bowl. You need to learn how to hold the thing, how to activate it with your index finger before slinging your wrist around the ball, whilst using essentially the same runup and bowling action as a fast bowler and making sure that you're landing the thing in a good spot faster than will allow them to dance to the pitch. And that's just your stock ball; a flipper is the hardest ****ing thing to bowl, and the wrong un requires years of muscle development to teach you to get your wrist into the right position unless you learn it young.

You can teach 4 quicks consecutively - as in, one after the other - to be match ready in the time it takes to develop one leggie.

Captains also don't understand how to captain spin in Australia too, but that's a historical failing rather than a specific problem now.
 
PhatBoy said:
Yasir Shah flirted with greatness for a little while, he broke some records from memory for fastest player to certain landmarks and finished his career with over 200 wickets at a tick over 31; as far as leg spinners go that’s ALMOST great, falls a little short but to be honest there’s only really been Warne, Kumble, Qadir, Benaud, Kaneria, Chandrasekhar and Grimmett I think that have taken more than 200.

Other than Yasir?

The next most successful since Warne?


Why that would be Devendra Bishoo. 117 at 37

With batsmen so much more willing to attack I think captains and teams in general almost at all levels are so much more wary of anything that increases the risk of losing control of the game
Click to expand...
Stuart McGill 208. In only 44 matches.
 

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Gethelred said:
Bear in mind, Warne was as much a freak as Murali was. Top class leggies approach the crease substantially faster than Warne did, and don't control their pace with their shoulders the way he did; essentially, because he controlled everything about his action within the action himself, there was just so, so much that could go wrong. His stock delivery had such variety because of it, but trying to copy Warne doesn't work because no captain or coach is going to teach you to bowl the way he bowled because of the massive margin for error.

Let me put it this way: there's almost more similarity between the famous John Howard half pitcher and Warne's stock ball than Warne and Yasir Shah or Rashid Khan.

That's the first bit: Warne was a physiological and technical freak. The second bit is that due to the change in techniques due to the proliferation of one day and shorter forms and the reducing levels of long form cricket at all levels, where once a developing leggie could safely trundle away playing 3's and bowling 20-30 overs a week until they were ready and had the muscle memory, young leggies are now bowling 10 overs max and trying not to get hit rather being the matchwinner.

And yes, leggies are the technically hardest thing to bowl. You need to learn how to hold the thing, how to activate it with your index finger before slinging your wrist around the ball, whilst using essentially the same runup and bowling action as a fast bowler and making sure that you're landing the thing in a good spot faster than will allow them to dance to the pitch. And that's just your stock ball; a flipper is the hardest ****ing thing to bowl, and the wrong un requires years of muscle development to teach you to get your wrist into the right position unless you learn it young.

You can teach 4 quicks consecutively - as in, one after the other - to be match ready in the time it takes to develop one leggie.

Captains also don't understand how to captain spin in Australia too, but that's a historical failing rather than a specific problem now.
Click to expand...

And the simple psychological matter of being able to pick up a ball and know within a few weeks of taking up cricket at any meaningful level that you can PROBABLY bowl some offies with at least a modicum of control even if you’re never going to master it to a proper degree doesn’t hurt.

Like literally every cricketer that’s played at an official level who isn’t a wicketkeeper, has spent time in the nets trundling away landing 3-4 out of 6 in a relatively acceptable spot outside off stump and fuller than long-hop length after they finish bowling what they normally bowl. Some actually develop them, some don’t. But it helps that it’s gettable.

Meanwhile if you’re doing the same with leggies you might initially land one in 12
 
Speaking of which, just stumbled across this kid on social media who seems to be gaining a bit of traction, seems to be able to rip it a fair bit for a youngun

www.instagram.com

Benji & Mark Ward (@roadtoaucricket) • Instagram photos and videos

48K Followers, 671 Following, 360 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Benji & Mark Ward (@roadtoaucricket)
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
Gethelred said:
Bear in mind, Warne was as much a freak as Murali was. Top class leggies approach the crease substantially faster than Warne did, and don't control their pace with their shoulders the way he did; essentially, because he controlled everything about his action within the action himself, there was just so, so much that could go wrong. His stock delivery had such variety because of it, but trying to copy Warne doesn't work because no captain or coach is going to teach you to bowl the way he bowled because of the massive margin for error.

Let me put it this way: there's almost more similarity between the famous John Howard half pitcher and Warne's stock ball than Warne and Yasir Shah or Rashid Khan.

That's the first bit: Warne was a physiological and technical freak. The second bit is that due to the change in techniques due to the proliferation of one day and shorter forms and the reducing levels of long form cricket at all levels, where once a developing leggie could safely trundle away playing 3's and bowling 20-30 overs a week until they were ready and had the muscle memory, young leggies are now bowling 10 overs max and trying not to get hit rather being the matchwinner.

And yes, leggies are the technically hardest thing to bowl. You need to learn how to hold the thing, how to activate it with your index finger before slinging your wrist around the ball, whilst using essentially the same runup and bowling action as a fast bowler and making sure that you're landing the thing in a good spot faster than will allow them to dance to the pitch. And that's just your stock ball; a flipper is the hardest ****ing thing to bowl, and the wrong un requires years of muscle development to teach you to get your wrist into the right position unless you learn it young.

You can teach 4 quicks consecutively - as in, one after the other - to be match ready in the time it takes to develop one leggie.

Captains also don't understand how to captain spin in Australia too, but that's a historical failing rather than a specific problem now.
Click to expand...
Also remember watching his clinics and Warnes hands were massive, I don't think it's a must for leg spin necessarily but man it would help
 
Gethelred said:
Bear in mind, Warne was as much a freak as Murali was. Top class leggies approach the crease substantially faster than Warne did, and don't control their pace with their shoulders the way he did; essentially, because he controlled everything about his action within the action himself, there was just so, so much that could go wrong. His stock delivery had such variety because of it, but trying to copy Warne doesn't work because no captain or coach is going to teach you to bowl the way he bowled because of the massive margin for error.

Let me put it this way: there's almost more similarity between the famous John Howard half pitcher and Warne's stock ball than Warne and Yasir Shah or Rashid Khan.

That's the first bit: Warne was a physiological and technical freak. The second bit is that due to the change in techniques due to the proliferation of one day and shorter forms and the reducing levels of long form cricket at all levels, where once a developing leggie could safely trundle away playing 3's and bowling 20-30 overs a week until they were ready and had the muscle memory, young leggies are now bowling 10 overs max and trying not to get hit rather being the matchwinner.

And yes, leggies are the technically hardest thing to bowl. You need to learn how to hold the thing, how to activate it with your index finger before slinging your wrist around the ball, whilst using essentially the same runup and bowling action as a fast bowler and making sure that you're landing the thing in a good spot faster than will allow them to dance to the pitch. And that's just your stock ball; a flipper is the hardest ****ing thing to bowl, and the wrong un requires years of muscle development to teach you to get your wrist into the right position unless you learn it young.

You can teach 4 quicks consecutively - as in, one after the other - to be match ready in the time it takes to develop one leggie.

Captains also don't understand how to captain spin in Australia too, but that's a historical failing rather than a specific problem now.
Click to expand...
Lovely post. Good reading.
 
Topkent said:
Also remember watching his clinics and Warnes hands were massive, I don't think it's a must for leg spin necessarily but man it would help
Click to expand...

He also had very strong wrists and shoulders from pulling himself around on a trolley when he broke both his legs as a kid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Freak childhood accident that helped Shane Warne become world's best

Horrific injuries Shane Warne suffered as a six year bizarrely helped him become the world's best leg spinner.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

You probably wouldn't recommend that training routine for kids though, break both their legs so they can bowl like Warnie.
 
Lot of those yellow Shane Warne spinners kits from the 90s didn’t pan out then.

I was just a hack cricketer at school and bit of club , tried lefties and could bowl a decent leg break but it’s so hard to consistently control, only mean to say that decent crickets probably give up on it, focus on off spin, batting etc
 
I played at club level and represented my town. Was an opening bowler but also tried a bit of spin. Turning the ball from leg to off was so much easier than off spin. Having said that i used my fingers not wrist. Warney was elite just plodding in and cracking that wrist around. So I've answered my own question. Id love to see a good Leggy getting around winning a Test Match. What a craft.
 

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I think dominant legspinners are really the exception rather than the norm. Since WWII you really only have Warne, Benaud, Chandrasekhar, Mushtaq Ahmed, and Anil Kumble who was arguably more a medium pacer. So five people in eight decades.
 
PhatBoy said:
Yasir Shah flirted with greatness for a little while, he broke some records from memory for fastest player to certain landmarks and finished his career with over 200 wickets at a tick over 31; as far as leg spinners go that’s ALMOST great, falls a little short but to be honest there’s only really been Warne, Kumble, Qadir, Benaud, Kaneria, Chandrasekhar and Grimmett I think that have taken more than 200.

Other than Yasir?

The next most successful since Warne?


Why that would be Devendra Bishoo. 117 at 37

With batsmen so much more willing to attack I think captains and teams in general almost at all levels are so much more wary of anything that increases the risk of losing control of the game
Click to expand...
Macgill took 208 wickets from 44 tests
 

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With Warne a distant and cherished memory now I suspect we might be back to where I found myself as a pre Warne schoolboy leggie where the coaches didn't know what to do with you, captains equally unsure and the best coaching you get is from a teammate's dad who was dumb enough to think he could bowl them too.
 
Maybe we need to be removed from Warne long enough not to expect our leg spinner to be a superstar instantly.


They take time to develop , more so than most cricketers. We aren’t very patient with spinner, I mean Lyon finally got shown some patience as a spinner after we tried heaps.
 
There have been very few great leg spinners in the history of test cricket.

You could easily ask why has India not produced one since Kumble?

Limited incentives and many disincentives for kids to learn the art. Technically most difficult and easiest to dispatch. Clueless captains. Impatient coaches.
 

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