Let's talk game plans.

[Knightmare]

Luke Ball only got 2 goals this year.

Due to not playing forward as much as he did during his successful 2011 season. Additionally without that same quantity of forward 50 stoppages he wasn't given the opportunity to provide any scoreboard pressure with those being how he in 2011 kicked many of his goals.

 

[Checkside35]

Collingwood needs a defender capable of shuting down X factor players. Toovey is overated as a shutdown defender as early in the year Linsday Thomas kicked 4 goals with him in the side and Garlett and Yarran teared us apart kicking three each. Marley Williams also seen as a rebounding defender who can also shut down players is overated. He best game defensively was against Yarran but other than that that Motlop and Davey kicked two goals on him and Wingard and Thomas kicked three, we kneed someone who can play on guys like these, and not let them kick there two to three goals. Shaw was probably our best optiom but we tradet him. As for or forward press we kneed a Andrew Krakouer replacement as he could get a silky handpass in a tight situation to set up a goal and could tackle helping our press. And also was a goal kicker wich would make us less dependent on Cloke.

Your last point about Krakouer is spot on. The current small forwards don't have the same ability. The loss of Didak through injury hurt us in that area as well.
Williams may be overrated as a shut down player but he can counter opposition kicking goals on him by hurting them the other way. Yes, he may get a couple kicked on him but with his work out of the back line, he could be worth 5 five for us.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Collingwood needs a defender capable of shuting down X factor players. Toovey is overated as a shutdown defender as early in the year Linsday Thomas kicked 4 goals with him in the side and Garlett and Yarran teared us apart kicking three each. Marley Williams also seen as a rebounding defender who can also shut down players is overated. He best game defensively was against Yarran but other than that that Motlop and Davey kicked two goals on him and Wingard and Thomas kicked three, we kneed someone who can play on guys like these, and not let them kick there two to three goals. Shaw was probably our best optiom but we tradet him. As for or forward press we kneed a Andrew Krakouer replacement as he could get a silky handpass in a tight situation to set up a goal and could tackle helping our press. And also was a goal kicker wich would make us less dependent on Cloke.

The problem is that small defenders who can shut down x factor smalls are a rare breed, i see where your coming from. Even the best teams have trouble with this, especially Geelong who have a very solid defense but struggle a lot with smalls. Toovey is one of the best in the game and you are really selling him short, you may be thinking of Russell. I dont want to bag Russel out but he was the one having trouble with Thomas (who toovey went on to quiet him down), and both Garlett and Yarran who he swapped around with Clarke on. Toovey is not anywhere close of being overrated. Marleys first game back after a long spell was against motlop who he kept relatively quiet for most of the game but when Geelong for firing Motlop was hard to handle and he did good to keep him to 2 goals which is about what he averaged. The Davey goals im not worried on in the slightest. Wingard is one of the hardest players to match up on because he spends so much time in the midfield and when he goes forward and Marley wasn't even his direct opponent, Marley actually kept his opponent goalless as well as sneaking a goal in himself. Sinclair down in defense has been a solid move, he kept the likes of Daulhaus, Zaharakis (who dominated us last time) and 1 of Betts and Garlett(cant remember which 1) all very quiet. He has great speed and he is good at ground level so he can stick with that small forward and stop them from crumbing, his skills aren't horrible as they have improved since his move down back. I dont think smalls will be much of an issue next season with Toovey, Sinclair and Marley all good shut down defenders taking the 3 best smalls.

 

[Captivating]

Shut down the supply and small forwards with X factor go missing. So, we just need to work harder to win the battle across the mid field.

 

[Woods List Clogger]

Shut down the supply and small forwards with X factor go missing. So, we just need to work harder to win the battle across the mid field.

Spot on Captivating, that is why Buckley wants our mid fielders to be two way runners.No doubt if a team uses the centre corridor the players need to run hard to attack and defend,this is central to the game plan Buckley wants to implement.Not having two way runners in the mid field is the major reason why Collingwood has leaked so many goals over the last two seasons playing the Buckley game plan.

 

[mike123]

Your last point about Krakouer is spot on. The current small forwards don't have the same ability. The loss of Didak through injury hurt us in that area as well.
Williams may be overrated as a shut down player but he can counter opposition kicking goals on him by hurting them the other way. Yes, he may get a couple kicked on him but with his work out of the back line, he could be worth 5 five for us.

I forgot about Didak as well

 

[mike123]

. Sinclair down in defense has been a solid move, he kept the likes of Daulhaus, Zaharakis (who dominated us last time)

The dogs could barely get an inside 50 that game and even if they did Shaw marked the ball. As for Zaharakas the bombers were in disarray and their forward structure (especially small forwards) were quiet on their own doing, and they kicked the ball to Sidebottom that game.

 

[mike123]

The problem is that small defenders who can shut down x factor smalls are a rare breed, i see where your coming from. Even the best teams have trouble with this, especially Geelong who have a very solid defense but struggle a lot with smalls.

Cameron Gutherie Kept Walters to one goal and Wingard and Rioli goalless whilst kicking a goal himself and broke all of Rioli's tackles.

 

[Shaneprice97]

The dogs could barely get an inside 50 that game and even if they did Shaw marked the ball. As for Zaharakas the bombers were in disarray and their forward structure (especially small forwards) were quiet on their own doing, and they kicked the ball to Sidebottom that game.

They had 47 inside 50's to our 53, they almost had as many as we. Our back six had a great game against Essendon and Sinclairs job was keeping Zaharakis quiet and he did to great affect. You can assume that bulldogs had barely any inside 50's or that the dons kicked to Sidebottom the entire game all you like but what is a proven fact is that x factor players become almost completely useless when the back 6 or the entire team are playing good footy and thats the case for Sinclair. Zaharakis kicked a winning goal and picked up decent numbers the following weeks so there was no excuse for Zaharakis's game for being quiet except our good defending and Sinclair shutting him down.

Cameron Gutherie Kept Walters to one goal and Wingard and Rioli goalless whilst kicking a goal himself and broke all of Rioli's tackles.

Guthrie was on Ballantyne and monfries, although he did good jobs on those players, your incorrect references to Guthrie opponents is making you look like a fool and makes everything you have already said completely irrelevant.

 

[mike123]

They had 47 inside 50's to our 53, they almost had as many as we. Our back six had a great game against Essendon and Sinclairs job was keeping Zaharakis quiet and he did to great affect. You can assume that bulldogs had barely any inside 50's or that the dons kicked to Sidebottom the entire game all you like but what is a proven fact is that x factor players become almost completely useless when the back 6 or the entire team are playing good footy and thats the case for Sinclair. Zaharakis kicked a winning goal and picked up decent numbers the following weeks so there was no excuse for Zaharakis's game for being quiet except our good defending and Sinclair shutting him down.

It our back six had a great game because thier forward six was terible that day.

 

[mike123]

Y

Surely this guy isnt serious
Do you even know what a defender is meant to do?

Yeah, i'm just saying it is allot easy when the forwards your playing on aren't that good.

 

[Checkside35]

Surely this guy isnt serious
Do you even know what a defender is meant to do?
Huge facepalm over mike123's stupidity

Wasn't supposed to be thread where we have a crack at one another. Save it for a thread on Buckley's coaching ability.

 

[mike123]

Well Leroy Jetta, David Zaharakis, Nick Kommer and Cory Dell'Olio aren't exactly a dameging forward line. David Zaharakis is good but one good forward isn't enough.

 

[forwardflanker]

The dogs could barely get an inside 50 that game and even if they did Shaw marked the ball. As for Zaharakas the bombers were in disarray and their forward structure (especially small forwards) were quiet on their own doing, and they kicked the ball to Sidebottom that game.

lol so if Sinclair ever has a good game it's because his opponent was terrible and the opposition kicked it to Shaw/Sidebottom all the time.

The bias against Sinclair on this board is unbelievable

 

[Shaneprice97]

Wasn't supposed to be thread where we have a crack at one another. Save it for a thread on Buckley's coaching ability.

Sorry mate, im just not a fan of unreliable references to past games in an argument.

 

[mike123]

Sorry mate, im just not a fan of unreliable references to past games in an argument.

Well next time i'll get better refrences

 

[mike123]

lol so if Sinclair ever has a good game it's because his opponent was terrible and the opposition kicked it to Shaw/Sidebottom all the time.

The bias against Sinclair on this board is unbelievable

Its not that i don't like sinclair, i just don't think he he is the best shut down defender that's all.He did play some good games this year and i'm not saying he is can only defend on a terrible oppenent Just saying we kneed a better shut down defender.

 

[forwardflanker]

Its not that i don't like sinclair, i just don't think he he is the best shut down defender that's all.He did play some good games this year and i'm not saying he is can only defend on a terrible oppenent Just saying we kneed a better shut down defender.

Until he got injured, Sinclair did surprisingly well as a defender last season and also provided good rebound. If he isn't in next years best 22 then he's very close to it. In 2014 we are going to have a lot of options for the back pocket/half back positions but we don't have any players who called be elite in that role.

 

[mike123]

Until he got injured, Sinclair did surprisingly well as a defender last season and also provided good rebound. If he isn't in next years best 22 then he's very close to it. In 2014 we are going to have a lot of options for the back pocket/half back positions but we don't have any players who called be elite in that role.

I agree, i just think we need someone elite in that role who is better than Sinclair.

 

[jonbe54]

I agree, i just think we need someone elite in that role who is better than Sinclair.

Not asking much are you? Have you any idea how hard it is to find a defender that is good enough to stop class small forwards every week?

It's a highly specialized role with very few capable of handling it with aplomb, do you have any ideas on who might get the job done? Because I have no idea of such a player available or likely to be in the near future.

No such thing as a perfect team, we are blessed with more than most but every team has its weaknesses because its basically impossible to recruit and bring to peak an entire playing group at the one time. There are too many teams with the same needs as every other team now so all teams will have flaws, such is life in an expanding competition.

 

[mike123]

Not asking much are you? Have you any idea how hard it is to find a defender that is good enough to stop class small forwards every week?

It's a highly specialized role with very few capable of handling it with aplomb, do you have any ideas on who might get the job done? Because I have no idea of such a player available or likely to be in the near future.

No such thing as a perfect team, we are blessed with more than most but every team has its weaknesses because its basically impossible to recruit and bring to peak an entire playing group at the one time. There are too many teams with the same needs as every other team now so all teams will have flaws, such is life in an expanding competition.

Yes it is unlikely and almost impossible to find the player i'm talking about, but if we had this player we would have the upper hand against every team.

 

[forwardflanker]

It's a highly specialized role with very few capable of handling it with aplomb, do you have any ideas on who might get the job done? Because I have no idea of such a player available or likely to be in the near future.

Scarenberg, Seedsman and Williams are the players who could potentially end up A-grade half backs for us. Toovey is a very high level defender but is not damaging enough when we are attacking to be considered elite imo. Sinclair also has a lot of improvement in his game as a defender seeing as he only played there 1/2 way through last season.

We really need to convert at least two of our younger mid sized defenders into first class rebounders because right now there isn't much down there.

 

[mike123]

Scarenberg, Seedsman and Williams are the players who could potentially end up A-grade half backs for us. Toovey is a very high level defender but is not damaging enough when we are attacking to be considered elite imo. Sinclair also has a lot of improvement in his game as a defender seeing as he only played there 1/2 way through last season.

We really need to convert at least two of our younger mid sized defenders into first class rebounders because right now there isn't much down there.

Players can improve, guess i didn't think of that.

 

[jonbe54]

Scarenberg, Seedsman and Williams are the players who could potentially end up A-grade half backs for us. Toovey is a very high level defender but is not damaging enough when we are attacking to be considered elite imo. Sinclair also has a lot of improvement in his game as a defender seeing as he only played there 1/2 way through last season.

We really need to convert at least two of our younger mid sized defenders into first class rebounders because right now there isn't much down there.

I have no problem with any of your options, nor am I willing to write off sinclair just yet. Our wealth in the backline at the present isn't in the tried and proven performers like the departed Krak and Heater, its in young players with fine potential coming through and some degree of choice between a decent number of candidates. This creates pressure and can only be good for the club, team and playing group as a whole.

 

[mike123]

I have no problem with any of your options, nor am I willing to write off sinclair just yet. Our wealth in the backline at the present isn't in the tried and proven performers like the departed Krak and Heater, its in young players with fine potential coming through and some degree of choice between a decent number of candidates. This creates pressure and can only be good for the club, team and playing group as a whole.

We need atleast one person elite and experienced in this role.