Analysis Level-Headed Discussion

[GutsyBug]

I thought I would create a place where we could discuss what actually went wrong with the game, without any theatrics.

We really didn't pressure the Saints enough. Their run was barely even countered, and we couldn't lay a tackle to save our lives. The forward line targets were bested by the Saints defence, but I guess that wasn't helped by the fact oure midfield couldn't get it in cleanly. And our back line... Zoning needs to go out. We play our best when we are man-on-man and backing our players to pressure and win the footy, not when we trust each defender to cover a piece of the field.

And with Williams probably out, our small defender stocks are running low. We really don't have anyone to bring in who plays his role do we?

 

[Pies_10]

Hard to all of a sudden go back on everything they did in the preseason.
I agree the zone just isn't working at all but I can't see a major change like that.

 

[lenny20]

A complete breakdown in gameplan and structures. Whether that's players not listening, coaches not communicating, the plan itself being broken, or a combination of all three, it was just a thrashing from the coaches box, much like the Sydney game.

When you can't generate any meaningful ball movement yourself, it means you have numbers in the wrong place with ball in hand. When you can't stop the 18th-ranked team pinpointing passes all the way down the field without laying a finger on the ball or a Saints jumper, it means you have numbers in the wrong places in defence. When you're outnumbered every time there's a contested ball to be won, whether it's forward, back, middle or wing, it means you have numbers in the wrong place when the ball is in dispute.

So whether it's borne of workrate issues, motivation issues, tactical issues or coaching issues, we're in a really, really bad spot right now. The days are long gone where we can say it was "just one of those days". It's an alarming pattern - our gameplan and structures have broken down to the point of ineptitude more often than they've succeeded for the past three years now.

 

[nahnah]

Sack em all

 

[nahnah]

Oh wrong thread

 

[Temploar]

Sack em all

Yeahyeah

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

A few things really.

We have no pace in the team, anywhere really. With the interchange cap, teams will tire and with the Saints effectively having one on the bench in the last, we should've exploited them. The problem is that nobody in the team has the acceleration to create separation from their opponent, regardless of their fatigue levels. We have focused too much on inside players in our rebuild and now have an enormous hole on our list. None of the guys who are out are overly quick either.

Fremantle's game plan is about constant, manic pressure and the interchange cap makes it harder to execute. I feel that we will go the same way unless we learn to become more offensive.

Dropping Frost was a very poor decision. Reid was out of position too often and by forcing him to man up, we lose the greatest benefits he provides.

Our defensive structure needs improvement.

We handball from a mark to players under pressure, way too often. I like it when players play on, but you don't do it for no reason. When you have possession from a mark or free kick, the ball is safe. Handballing sideways to guys who have opponents bearing down on them is dumb footy.

 

[Vicky Park]

Obviously we are at a low point. I hope we are at the bottom, and can only go up, but I'm not hopeful. Too many of our players are making basic mistakes, which indicates a 'head' issue. We have talented players, but too many were off their game today and against the Swans.

I don't have a solution but this is what I'd like to see:

• Less of us in the news for non-footy related stuff. I hate what Robbo did, but from here on we should put this injustice aside and get on with improving our football.
• I'd like Eddie to try and gag himself for the remainder of the season, and not make big statements about us or have a go at other clubs or the AFL.
• I'd like Bucks to flog these guys on the training track, and dish out some tough love.
• And I'd like some genuine leaders to emerge on the field and take some responsibility.

 

[TW Sherrin]

We either have the dumbest players in the comp or they don't know what to do on the field. The ridiculous short kicking the saints were allowed and then one of theirs standing on their own inside F50.

I'll lean toward towards the second one.

 

[Piesinmyeyes]

I don't think our defense can zone with the players we have currently, Brown, Frost, Langdon, Goldsack and Maynard are all negating style defenders. Our smaller defenders whilst may have the capacity to run and carry 're Williams and Ramsay but r injured. Oxley and Pendles when defending have skills but aren't quick. Sinclair lacks talent to be creative. If we encounter a pacy young side now and cant control the midfield we are being cut to pieces. Need to regain some midfield presence soon or we will be smashed consistently. Sidey and varcoe will help, however severely lacking back flankers with pace and skill.

 

[ghostfacekillah]

Negatives
Pendles must still be sore - if not have to get in the middle. Treloar seemed to spend too much time (starting the qtrs) on the bench.
Wasn't impressed by the coaching. Watching the Saints use the same option time and time again to get it out of their defensive half.

We looked like Robbo had leaked something again. Disinterested, selfish at times.

We looked slow. Part of that is selection options and I imagine why we brought in Goodyear.

Williams injury means big trouble for our small defensive stocks. Thomas & Keefe rookie listings hurting us a bit now. Would like to see Toovey & Frost back in for a bit of leadsership & grunt down back. I know Tooves aint out future but he is a good presence out there and lifts in key moments.

The media wont shut up about the Pies and gloss Richmond being shit for 10 times as long as the Pies.

Positives

Out leading goalkicker in Elliot is out. Varcoe, Steele etc among our best we get back next week. Who was our quickest player out there? I do wonder how different we'd be sitting here at this time of year with Steele.

Broomhead an option as small defender? prefer him on wing/hf but is aggro and a good kick

We started last season blazing and ended by losing to Essendon & Melbourne. Maybe we can reverse it this year. And hey Saints have not beaten us in 6 years. We have more talent left over from 2010 but not by much. They took a more experienced team out today (by age & games).

Aish played a decent game. Howe was ok when moved to the wing. Cloke's form is improving slightly.



.

 

[1892]

Disclaimer, was planning to watch it on delay without knowing the result, but sensed we were done early in the third, checked the scores and have barely paid attention sense. The last quarter is still to be played.


Our structures or inability to counter St Kilda's were shocking. The saints were allowed to move the ball way too easily around the ground. It's embarrassing how easily they were able to run it out of our 50 finding loose players to link and carry the footy. They were also able to take marks in their forward 50 at will while we were looking on and just guarding empty space. Compare that to how clustered our forward was.

Most worrying is I also wonder if we've been caught out by this years rule changes, namely the 10m protection zone and tightening of the out of bounds rule. It looks like we've put a priority on contested ball winners with grunt over kicking, but the rule changes have lead to a more open fast flowing game. Sidebottom and Varcoe missing hurt in this regard, as does Pendlebury carrying an injury. Plus he isn't the answer to our back line problems.

 

[loki04]

Too many of our players get sucked into the contest eo when we do win they have no clean way to move it on.
This also allowed opposition to swamp the players that get possession, turn it over or reset. They then have set up to quick clear congestion (usually with a handpass back to quarterback) and move the ball into space through largely unpressured movement.

If we do clear it ussually through a blind 30m sky ball rushed kick.

 

[Ketchup]

Williams out? So who's decision to use two spots on drug cheats? Have the slimmest list in the comp at the moment and have two less spots thanks to our own negligence

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The Saints had so. Much. Space.

If zoning is the plan week-to-week and that's how effectively we're going to defend, we'll be hard pressed to win another game.

 

[jerry springer]

Fitness is appalling. Both mentally and physically

 

[TradeDraft]

The Saints had so. Much. Space.

If zoning is the plan week-to-week and that's how effectively we're going to defend, we'll be hard pressed to win another game.

Looked like players could not give a Stuff to try and get on there Man

 

[Soaring Magpie]

The issue I see is a total lack of leg speed combined with far too much handball to a player standing flat footed.
The zone defense is disgraceful tactics, it's just so easy to pick apart, double the uncontested marks is testament to that.
Time for a rethink from the coaching staff and time for the players to show some pride in the jumper, it currently looks like they don't care.

 

[Ketchup]

Fitness is appalling. Both mentally and physically

But we're victims of our own drug use
Have sympathy jerry! Please!

 

[Dan Moody]

Disappointed to see no mention of Nathan Brown in this thread.
Again, another week without a tackle stat. How can a backman not have stats for tackles?
He offers nothing week in, week out. Goes to show just how important Maxwell and Lumumba were to the backline structure.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I don't think our defense can zone with the players we have currently, Brown, Frost, Langdon, Goldsack and Maynard are all negating style defenders. Our smaller defenders whilst may have the capacity to run and carry 're Williams and Ramsay but r injured. Oxley and Pendles when defending have skills but aren't quick. Sinclair lacks talent to be creative. If we encounter a pacy young side now and cant control the midfield we are being cut to pieces. Need to regain some midfield presence soon or we will be smashed consistently. Sidey and varcoe will help, however severely lacking back flankers with pace and skill.

Toovey and Jono Marsh can add some pace to defence but neither have great skill.

I think we need to try Aish off the half back flank.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Positives: Nathan Freeman got through his comeback game unscathed and had 46 touched in three quarters.

Oh wait...

 

[Finnishpie]

The way I see it, we've really two major problems:

1. Skill/class -- we just have too few elite kicks. We still miss a class running defender, more than anything else. But also, we lack those couple of champions who step up when the challenge is laid down (I'm thinking of players like Scott Burns, Gavin Brown, etc).
2. The game has changed and passed some of our regulars up. Brown, Toovey, Goldsack (who was okay today), even Cloke -- they're just not really cutting it in the modern game or fast movement and running. One thing you'll not about these players is that they also lack no1. Skill and Class (with perhaps Cloke as an exception. I didn't expect such a drop-off from these guys so quickly. Unfortunately, the players we lost/got rid of (Heath Shaw, Wellingham, Dayne Beams, etc, are players better suited to the modern game.

Part of the problem with the game plan, I think, has to do with the above. It's just impossible to play the modern game style without speed, skill, class (see the bulldogs).

 

[sirlothie]

I thought I would create a place where we could discuss what actually went wrong with the game, without any theatrics.

We really didn't pressure the Saints enough. Their run was barely even countered, and we couldn't lay a tackle to save our lives. The forward line targets were bested by the Saints defence, but I guess that wasn't helped by the fact oure midfield couldn't get it in cleanly. And our back line... Zoning needs to go out. We play our best when we are man-on-man and backing our players to pressure and win the footy, not when we trust each defender to cover a piece of the field.

And with Williams probably out, our small defender stocks are running low. We really don't have anyone to bring in who plays his role do we?

Two words. Alan Toovey.

 

[sirlothie]

Positives: Nathan Freeman got through his comeback game unscathed and had 46 touched in three quarters.

Oh wait...

Must have come off with leather poisoning.