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List Assessment 2009

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C

cma6

Club Legend
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Sep 21, 2006
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Launceston
AFL Club
Hawthorn
We have had a number of opportunities to steal 8th place this season and while we are not mathematically dead, its fair to say we don't deserve to make it. We need to rely on other clubs falling over.

Now is a good time to assess the list. I could wait to the end of the season but a couple of feel-good wins over struggling teams wont enhance anyones season in my eyes.

Here is how I've graded each players season.

Bailey, Max:
Our most promising ruck prospect will be ok. We need to be patient though. Wont be a superstar from round 1.
2009: N/A, 2010: Definite keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Bateman, Chance
Has been average at best this year. We look our best when he is running hard.
Seems to go to the bench with an injury far too often considering he is back within 10 minutes and never misses the following week.
2009: C, 2010: Definite keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Birchall, Grant
Terrible year but has credit in the bank from last year. Another season at this standard would have his future in doubt.
2009: D-, 2010 - Keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Boyle, Tim
Hasn't played but it looks as though his time is almost up. I'd be surprised if he held his spot on the list.
2009: N/A, 2010: Probably gone

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Brown, Campbell
Poor year by his standards but the endeavour is always there. Looks to be carrying something so hopefully a full pre season will have him back in all-australian contention.
2009: D, 2010: Definite Keeper.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Campbell, Robert
Has had an unsettled year trying to cover for the loss of Croad while coping with a few injuries himself. Has not been great but he always has a go and I still think he will be one of our best 2 ruckmen for a while yet.
2009: C-, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Croad, Trent
His future doesn't look promising. The recruiters need to assume he is finished. If he returns its a bonus.
2009: N/A 2010: ???
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Dew, Stuart
Poor year by Dew but his lack of pace was exposed without the extra run of Young and Crawford on the ground. He will always be a Hawthorn hero though.
2009: D, 2010: Retired
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Dowler, Beau
Has shown some promising signs this year but looks to be a real confidence player. I would still like to see him developed as a KPP. I could not understand him being dropped when Roughead got injured. I'd keep him but his time is running out.
2009: C-, 2010: Probably keep.
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Ellis, Xavier
Is a quality player that will be one of our leaders but he needs to stay on the paddock. His decision making went backwards this season but he was not alone there. There is no doubt about his position on list.
2009: C- 2010: Definite keeper.
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Franklin, Lance
Reasonable year in terms of goals kicked, just not as good as last year. His defensive pressure last night against Adelaide shows promise.
2009: B-, 2010: All Australian


http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Gilham, Stephen
Injury has ruined his season but when he has played I don't think he has been that much better than Murphy. Ideally, he would be replaced as a key defender by september next year.
2009: D, 2010: Keeper, but fringe player.


http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Guerra, Brent
Really importand player to our team. He has had an ok season but his defensive work is still average at best.

2009: C+, 2010: Keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Hodge, Luke
Hasn't looked fit all year but almost carried us to a couple of victories. I hope he has a great pre season and starts 2010 with the endurance to play midfield regularly.
2009: C, 2010: All Australian/top 5 Brownlow
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Kennedy, Josh P.
Can get the football but needs to work on most parts of his game. Speed isn't great but thats only an issue if he lets it become one.
2009: C-, 2010: Keeper/fringe player
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Ladson, Rick
Under rated player that has been a massive loss. He needs to get right for 2010.
2009: N/A, 2010: Definite Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Lewis, Jordan
Really good player. Is criticised for his discipline but I don't mind the aggression. I hope all the posters suggesting he is trade bait are way off the mark. Inconsistent year though.
2009: C-, 2010: Top 10 B&F
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Lisle, Jordan
If this kid can get to mid 90's in weight over the summer then he could be really important. We need a big guy down back and he looks most likely from the kids.
2009: N/A: 2010: Keeper: 8-12 games.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Lowden, Luke
Young ruckman needs time.
2009: N/A, 2010: Developing. Probably keep.

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
McGlynn, Ben
Endeavour is great but disposal/decision making is poor at times. Could be our main tagger but I think he could be used as trade bait while his value is reasonably high.
2009: C+, 2010: Keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Mitchell, Sam
Has had an ok year in terms of media voting and statistics but his body language at times is a concern. He needs to get his body right and play in the middle for the majority of 2010.
2009: B, 2010: Brownlow Medal
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Morton, Jarryd
I don't see much in this kid but he has age on his side. If Melbourne or Richmond wanted him to join one of his brothers then I would listen to offers.
2009: D, 2010: Trade/Possible keeper.
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Murphy, Thomas
Not big/strong enough to play as a KPP and not talented enough to play as a flanker. He should be delisted. Bigfooty posters will need to find a new guy to target when we lose.
2009: D-, 2010: Gone

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Muston, Beau
Good to see the kid play some games but he has a lot of work to do. I think a dozen games in 2010 would be a good result.
2009: D+, 2010: Keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Osborne, Michael
Really tried through the hard times even though he has had his own injury concerns. Really important player.
2009: C, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Renouf, Brent
Hasn't progressed this year but he still has time. He will be ok.
2009: D, 2010: Keeper
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Rioli, Cyril
Started really well but has tapered off since injury. He is probably our most exciting player and that is a big call in a team that has Buddy.
2009: B-, 2010: All Australian
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx


Roughead, Jarryd
Looks down on confidence but he will bounce back. Probably could have been used back more during his slumps.
2009: C, 2010: 70 goals

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Savage, Shane
Good kid. Will be ok with time.
2009: N/A, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Schoenmakers, Ryan
Really exciting kid. Makes rookie mistakes but has a beautiful kick and looks athletic.
2009: C-, 2010: Definite Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Sewell, Brad
Has been solid but has probably not worked his opponent over like in previous seasons. I've noticed him watching opponents run to the ball and not neccessarily chasing hard.

2009: B-, 2010: Definite Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Shiels, Liam
This kid will only get better. Has shown some really promising signs. Its good he has had a taste so early.
2009: C-, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Taylor, Simon A.
Really dumb player but when he isn't giving away free kicks he is actually a solid ruckman. He will suffer as the game moves towards the Clark/Ryder/Kreuzer type ruckman.
2009: D, 2010: Depth ruckman

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Thorp, Mitchell
This kid has done nothing and is reported to have a terrible attitude. Getting this close to being delisted may wake him up and spur him on to achieve something. He has talent but he would need to show it next season.
2009: N/A, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Tuck, Travis
Unfirtunately, Tuck has been a major disappointment this season. He should have cemented his spot in the team but he has been woeful. He dives head first in to packs - and thats great courage - but he doesn't get the ball. He would be delisted if I was in charge of the list.
2009: D-, 2010: Gone

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Whitecross, Brendan
Has looked ok at times but tapered off towards the end. He is definitely worth keeping as a depth guy.
2009: D+, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Williams, Mark

Was ok at times but he can look very casual, almost to the point of lazy, at time. He needs 30+ goals next year.
2009: C-, 2010: Keeper

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
Young, Clinton
Really missed his run. Need him back.
2009: N/A, 2010: Keeper

Moss, Garry
Has shown enough to return to senior list. Good work rate.
2009: C, 2010: Added to senior list


Stokes, Cameron
Needed a big year. Didn't have it.
2009: D-, 2010: Gone


In my opinion this means the following should occur:


Delist:
T.Tuck
T.Murphy
T.Boyle
S.Dew (retired)
T.Croad (lets hope not!!!)



Elevate:
G.Moss


Trade Bait:
S.Taylor
J.Morton

B.McGlynn (maybe)


Draft:
Keep first rounder and take midfielder with genuine speed.
Look to trade later picks for veterans that can fill roles for us, particularly down back. Not a deep draft so we should see what we can get via trade.


In summary...
We have had a shocking year. Injuries, form and umpiring have all contributed to one of the worst premiership defences of all time. We have looked slow, undisciplined, weak in defence, unathletic in the ruck and lacked leadership. Tom Murphy and Simon Taylor have taken most of the blame but they were certainly not alone.


I love the Hawks and I know every one of the players will be hurting after this season. I am sure they will all have a massive pre season and get back to where they belong at the top of the ladder.


















http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/player.../senior/season/2009/selected/bio/default.aspx
 
great post!

no matter what we need to persist with dowler and thorp.

we need a summer with with martial arts experts learning to tackle. once they do that do some combat training and TACKLE TACKLE TACKLE

WE NEED INTENSITY AND ONLY PLAY PLAYERS WHO HAVE EARNT THEIR SPOT
 

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I understand he has had injuries, and may show promise of being a player, but I don't see why we should keep Thorp. If his attitude is as poor as is being said, I feel we should just cut him loose and hope he can find a team to take the punt on him, as I can't see him making it in our best 22.
 
Nice post, i agree with most of your thoughts but i think you are way off the mark with gilham, since his come back from his injury, his done very well apart from looking a bit slow but thats to be expected as his still very underdone(fitness). i cant think of many times his been beaten by his oppnent this year and does not seem to panic very much when the pressure is on and his disposel is very reliable, always around the 90%efficency. i also think he reads the play of the game quite well. i think u will be wrong about gilham being a fringe player in years to come as u will see he will be in our next premiership and hopefully a few more!!:thumbsu::)
 
I agree with all of your post. Especially the McGlynn trade bait. We will always be in trouble when he gets 38 disposals as his turnovers will kill us. If he stays he needs to play the tagger role. Nothing more, nothing less. Trade him while he has value. Kennedy is similar too.
 
mustardnugget said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Murphy will be an important player for us down back next year providing we have suitable defenders to take the big leading mark forwards.
Click to expand...

And providing we have someone to pick up the small quick forwards as well.....

Oh yeah, and someone to pick up the mid-sized forwards as well...

Actually, if we cover all 6 forwards with decent defenders, then Murphy will have a place to play loose in defence....
 
In reality, you have to put simple things into context.

Taylor giving a free kick away is equiv to a turnover.

Murphy slipping over is equiv to a turnover.

Hodge kicking to the opposition is a turnover.


Need to be very carefull when judging players I think and just not shoot from the hip.
 
Tuck has shown much more than Muston (the most overrated player on our list by a mile).

Muston played against nobody v Melbourne and has been woeful ever since. His kicking is worse than McGlynn's.

Hes 2nd out in my book. Offers us very little. Hard on him because hes probably a great kid thats been through alot, but this is a harsh business.
 
cma6 said:
Guerra, Brent
Really importand player to our team. He has had an ok season but his defensive work is still average at best.

2009: C+, 2010: Keeper




Kennedy, Josh P.
Can get the football but needs to work on most parts of his game. Speed isn't great but thats only an issue if he lets it become one.
2009: C-, 2010: Keeper/fringe player
Click to expand...

With Goo, I agree with your assessment of him relative to this season but the sad thing is that I think he has been the best performed defender for the HFC this year - which goes to show how crap the team has been defensively thus far..


Kennedy is definitely a keeper. He's performed better than some higher-rated 'names' in the hawks midfield on a few occassions this season.
 
Great post!

Some good assessments. I think that, in order for us to acquire a CHB/FB or a good Ruck then we will need to offer up some talent.

Nothing against the bloke, i like watching him and its not personal, but I think Ladson would be one to throw up for trade. He is talented, 24 or 25 years old, 100 games and a premiership. Tie him and pick 7 or 8, whatever it is we get and throw that towards Brian Lake or Sandilands. High price for Sandilands, but this draft is not going to kill anyone trying to get a player, particularly of that calibre. Freo need someone of Ladson's ability and they won't refuse that first round pick.

Unlikely to happen, but thats whats going through my head. I think that getting a decent CHB/FB would be the first priority as its unlikely (tearing at the heart strings) we'll see Croady again.

Taylor & B Mac + 2nd Round pick for Goose Macguire? Taylor could be their 3rd or 4th ruck replacing King and B Mac would be good to replace an aging Baker. Both not that great players, but B Mac has been looking alright recently...

Say that one went through and we could line up like this for r1 next year:

B: Shoenmakers - Gilham - Guerra

HB: Birchall - MacGuire - Lewis

C: Bateman - Mitchell - Young

HF: Hodge - Franklin - Osborne

F: Williams - Roughead - Brown

R: Campbell - Sewell - Rioli

Int: Ellis - Bailey - two of the following: Moss, Whitex, Shiels, Savage, etc

Lewis in bold to fill Ladson hole. He can do it. Hodge fit and freed up in the forward line, going into the middle every now and then to get more Brownlow votes.

Am I missing someone?

They have a lot of work to do this trade and pre-season. They need to really step it up and get these guys to a new level. There aren't many opportunities in footy and with the talent we already have then we should get more reward.
 

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buddylg said:
Great post!

Unlikely to happen, but thats whats going through my head. I think that getting a decent CHB/FB would be the first priority as its unlikely (tearing at the heart strings) we'll see Croady again.

Taylor & B Mac + 2nd Round pick for Goose Macguire? Taylor could be their 3rd or 4th ruck replacing King and B Mac would be good to replace an aging Baker. Both not that great players, but B Mac has been looking alright recently.
Click to expand...

I went and had a look at Goose at a few weeks back. Just to be sure that my memory of him as a player (when he was a topliner) squared up with the dude dominating in the reserves but unable to crack a senior game.

I was really keen on him coming to the hawks a few years back when there was rumours of mutual interest.

He's a damn big unit. Bigger, I think, than the Goose ever was. But his mobility isn't what it was, and his turning circle well, it's kind of large.

So the goose is a different player than when he was running around a few years ago. I can see why he can't crack a game with the Saints, but given our paucity of big experienced defenders he might be a useful addition to our list. Can't see it being any more than a few years though.

I also echo what a previous poster wrote, in that, I don't think you'd want to part with more than 3rd round pick for him.
 
Nightwolf said:
Tuck has shown much more than Muston (the most overrated player on our list by a mile).

Muston played against nobody v Melbourne and has been woeful ever since. His kicking is worse than McGlynn's.

Hes 2nd out in my book. Offers us very little. Hard on him because hes probably a great kid thats been through alot, but this is a harsh business.
Click to expand...

Muston has shown glimpses but has been average for most of his games. I think thats to be expected after missing so much football. I'd give him at least another year to see what we have.

Tuck has had a lot of opportunities this season and has done nothing. With all the injuries he had the perfect opportunity to claim a permanent spot in our midfield rotation and he didn't take it.
 

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I don't like the idea of giving up our first pick for a backman. The top 8-9 picks in this draft look good with it tapering off after that. We wont see a top ten pick for years after this.

I think Melbourne has too many tall backs and they may be interested in the brother of Cale.

Another interesting guy - Brad Miller. 194cm, 94kg, 26yo.
Could he hold down a spot in defence? I remember him being tried there with mixed results. His price wouldn't be that high, surely.

Would a second rounder get us anywhere near Tarrant? He is an older guy in a rebuilding team.

I like Lake, but not at what it will cost us.
 
cma6 said:
Boyle, Tim
Hasn't played but it looks as though his time is almost up. I'd be surprised if he held his spot on the list.
2009: N/A, 2010: Probably gone
Thorp, Mitchell
This kid has done nothing and is reported to have a terrible attitude. Getting this close to being delisted may wake him up and spur him on to achieve something. He has talent but he would need to show it next season.
2009: N/A, 2010: Keeper
Click to expand...

I am Sooooooo sick of seeing these 2 sicknotes on our list. GET RID!!!!
 
rich_ said:
Why are we looking to trade quality players such as Ladson? This is a premiership team people
Click to expand...

That is sitting where o the ladder?

I don't want Ladson traded (I don't think he has a lot of currency after this season anyway.) but to automatically bury our heads in the sand and not look to improve the club is illogical.
 
Agree with Nightwolf on Muston. I think he will get another year though.

The bloke I would throw up for trade is Ellis. High draft pick, played a good grand final and has not tarnished his reputation this season. He has currency. When you look at the type of player he is in the context of Hawthorn's list, he is replaceable. I am not suggesting that we shop him around but if we need to give some quality up to get some quality then he is the one.
 
Roger Rogerson said:
Agree with Grizzlym on Muston. I think he will get another year though.

The bloke I would throw up for trade is Ellis. High draft pick, played a good grand final and has not tarnished his reputation this season. He has currency. When you look at the type of player he is in the context of Hawthorn's list, he is replaceable. I am not suggesting that we shop him around but if we need to give some quality up to get some quality then he is the one.
Click to expand...

Ellis... are you being serious?
 
Roger Rogerson said:
Agree with Grizzlym on Muston. I think he will get another year though.
Click to expand...

Me on Muston? In this thread I was posting about Goose.

Edit: No probs RR. I made reference to Muston on another thread though, so completely plausible!
 

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List Assessment 2009

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