List Assessment

[Blue and Silver]

OK, so the idea here is to broadly define the categories of players we have on the list to gather an idea of what area we need to bolster in the draft/trade period at the end of the year.

I have used the following shorthand for players who can perform multiple roles

Small defenders (SD) - 185
Medium defenders (MD) 185-192
Tall Defenders (TD) 192 +

Inside Midfielders (IM)
Outside Midfielders (OM)


Small Forwards (SF) - 185
Medium Forwards (MF) 185-192
Tall Forwards (TF) 192 +

Rucks (R)

Sub-classifications:
Rebounding Defenders (RD)
Taggers (T)
Defensive Forwards (DF)

Rookie listed players are in Italics

Defenders:

Smalls:
Armfield, Dennis (T, RD) - Recently dropped from the seniors, but his form hasn't been horrible. Looking like depth at this point
Joseph, Aaron (T) - Dropped after earning a place earlier in the season. With the form of Duigan, Touhy, Laidler, Yarran, his place on the list is looking shaky.
Yarran, Christopher (SF, OM) - Has been exceptional. Pace and skills make him a real weapon on the rebound, but perhaps the most appealing aspects are his developing defensive skills.

Medium:
Dare, Jospeh (RD) - Currently playing in the Bullants seniors. Has been up and down, still needs to fill out in to his frame. Other rookies are ahead of him in line for promotion.
Davies, Marcus (IM) - Seemed to be very quiet early this season, but more recently has had some good form as an attacking defender.
Duigan, Nick (OM) - Courageous, level-headed and a team orientated player. The rudder which rights the ship in defence
Laidler, Jeremy (OM, MF) - Very consistent performer. Good defensively, clean skills, plays a team role. Out injured at the moment, should be straight back in when well
McInnes, Andrew (OM, MF) - Playing Bullants seniors, and seems to be playing consistent football without starring. Certainly could be a good player in years to come
O'Keefe, Rhys (RD) - Needed time to get over injury and seems to be coming good. Booming kick
Russell, Jordan (RD) - Under-rated performer, who is a real leader in defence. Plays a solid role in defence and while not in the exceptional form of last year, certainly best 22
Tuohy, Zach (RD, T) - 2 games in to his AFL career and he is certainly starting to look the part. His skills are great, as his willingness to move the ball forward
Twomey, Wayde (OM, MF) - Goal-kicking wingman, playing in the Bullants Seniors. Good player, but nothing outstanding at the moment
White, Simon (MF) - Started the year in the seniors, holding down a KPD. Held his place till forced out with injury. May struggle to regain a place, given the strong form of others.

Talls:
Austin, Mark (TF) - Playing in the Bullants seniors as a swingman. Kicked 3 goals last week, but needs to lift further if he wants to hold his place on the senior list
Bower, Paul (RD) - First game for the season, and barely fired a shot. Didn't help he was substitute. Previously has been playing in the Bullants, according to reports he has been great at times, although seemed to have difficulty running out games
Jamison, Michael (RD) - Excellent. Just excellent. A complete rock in defence. Has picked up a more attacking game
Patrick McCarthy (TF, R) - Playing Bullants, has shown to be clean when he gets it. Will fill out his frame
Thornton, Bret (TF) - In the seniors, but certainly not cemented in. Playing as second KPD but has questionable defensive credentials
Matthew Watson (RD, TF) - His offensive qualities have certainly been displayed, but his defensive ability still needs work. You'd expect to see his body being shaped to shed some puppy fat and add some muscle

Midfielders:

Inside:
Cachia, Jarryd - Playing Bullants seniors and tearing it up. Clearance machine by reports, who can play as a linkman as well. Questions over his kicking, but in terms of guts and hardness is probably in the top echelon on our list
Curnow, Ed - A revelation early on, who has been quieter since injuring a shoulder against the Saints. A hard-edged midfielder who compliments the class of our guns
Ellard, David (SF, SD, T) - A grinder, who just won't let anything stand in his way. His build doesn't lend itself to being a hard-nosed midfielder, but that he is. Tackling machine, who is a big part of our midfield
Judd, Chris (OM) - Is Judd. Nothing I say will explain his brilliance adequately
Mclean, Brock - Strong Bullants form, but hasn't been able to convincingly convert this into the seniors. Slow inside midfielder who can accumulate and disposes well. Could be in strife if he can't prove himself at seniors level definitively
Robinson, Mitch (MF) - Is a monster at the contest. Has a competitive spirit which burns so fiercely it eclipses almost every other players. Playing more calmly when he has the ball, which is making his disposal more efficient

Outside:
Carazzo, Andrew (T, DF) - Seems to be the primary tagger, and doing well. Consistent performer, with inconsistent skills (if that makes sense).
Carter, Mitch - In the Bullants reserves, not starring, haven't seen him play.
Gibbs, Bryce (MD, RD, T, MF) - In great form in the seniors, playing as a utility, and doing well in various roles
Lucas, Kane (MD,MF,R) - Played the first game of the year, but has since been in the Bullants. Has been accumulating the ball well, but issues with disposal and ball-handling are being ironed out. Recently has had some injuries
Murphy, Marc (SF, IM) - Absolute star. Lock for AA at this point. If he keeps this up will be elite by years end
Scotland, Heath (RD, SD) - Rocking it at the moment, playing a sweeping/outside midfield role.
Simpson, Kade (SF) - Down on last years level, but undoubtedly crucial to the seniors side. Does the 1%ers and can bob up with a goal

Forwards:

Smalls:
Betts, Eddie (OM) - Been up and down a bit. But recently has been in good form
Gartlett, Jeffery (OM) - Started the season on fire, but has cooled a little. Very dangerous in tandem with Betts
Kerr, Rohan - In the Bullants, and showing some form here and there. More of a high half-forward/midfielder than crumber. Might need to show more to keep his place on the list

Medium:
Collins, Andrew (OM) - Begun the season with a great game in the Ants, but followed it up with a couple of stinkers in the seniors. Injured for the season with a shoulder. Talented, but may take more time
Houlihan, Ryan (DF, MD, RD) - A pre-season injury has meant Houlihan has started slow, but has been all class in the VFL of recent.
Walker, Andrew (RD,DF,T, MD) - In exceptional form of recent. Dead-eye set shot. Solid hands too, especially when he decides to soar

Talls:
Casboult, Levi (R) - Got promoted earlier in the season, only to get injured. Not aware of his form in the Ants prior to that, but assuming he was promoted it must of been pretty good.
Henderson, Lachlan (TD) - Came in a little early in the season and struggled. But ripped it up in the Ants and then the opening half against the Lions.
Mitchell, Luke (R) - Injured for most of the year. Played 1 Bullants reserves game for 2 goals
O'Halpin, Setanta (TD, R) - Hit the seniors for the win in Sydney as a back-up ruck. His desperation and pursuit of the contest are his trademark. Out injured at the moment
Waite, Jarrad (TD, RD) - Been great up forward as the main target, but has struggled for accuracy in front of goals. Creative, with a lot of X-Factor.

Rucks:

Hampson, Shaun (TF) - I doubted his formline, but his most recent game has convinced me. We now have 3 first rucks vying for position. What a great problem to have
Kreuzer, Matthew (TF) - Returning from injury and I have to say I was impressed. Still hunts his own ball in the contests. A little rusty early as the forward target, but it will come.
Warnock, Robert - Was first ruck for our first 8 games until he got concussed against Geelong. Great early form, which he can hopefully re-acquire. No rush though.

 

[Artie Bucco]

Good post mate, inside mid and medium forwards are a bit of a worry aren't they..

I don't agree with Carrazzo as an outside mid, on the subject though, I would love to see him play a Kane Cornes style of game. I mean we're crying out for some inside grunt, which he is capable of...and is one of our few mids who runs the other way.

Also White can play as a tall forward, just doesn't have the strength to go with the gorillas at this stage, as demonstated when he played on Dawes?? In the first Collingwood game.
​

 

[Shambolic]

I honestly think its the collective of Collingwood that is so good and the collective of Carlton that has fallen away. Our structures, teamwork, ability to cover others, shepherding, blocking, creating space v filling it....

On paper we've got lots of good players.

On the field at the moment we've got players that look good on paper.

 

[CFC16]

OK, so the idea here is to broadly define the categories of players we have on the list to gather an idea of what area we need to bolster in the draft/trade period at the end of the year.

I have used the following shorthand for players who can perform multiple roles

Small defenders (SD)
Medium defenders (MD)
Tall Defenders (TD)

Inside Midfielders (IM)
Outside Midfielders (OM)


Small Forwards (SF)
Medium Forwards (MF)
Tall Forwards (TF)

Rucks (R)

Sub-classifications:
Rebounding Defenders (RD)
Taggers (T)
Defensive Forwards (DF)

Rookie listed p[layers are in Italics

Defenders:

Smalls:
Anderson, Joe (T)
Armfield, Dennis (T, RD)
Browne Steven (DF)
Joseph, Aaron (T)

Medium:
Dare, Jospeh (RD)
Davies, Marcus
Johnson, Chris (RD, IM)
O'Keefe, Rhys (RD)
Russell, Jordan (RD)
Tuohy, Zach (RD, T)
Walker, Andrew (RD,DF,T)
Wiggins, Simon (MF)
White, Simon (MF)

Talls:
Austin, Mark (TF)
Bower, Paul (R)
Jamison, Michael
Thornton, Bret (TF)

Midfielders:

Inside:
Cachia, Jarryd
Grigg, Shaun (OM)
Hadley, Richard
Judd, Chris (OM)
Mclean, Brock

Outside:
Carazzo, Andrew (T)
Gibbs, Bryce (MD, RD, T, MF)
Lucas, Kane (MD,MF,R)
Murphy, Marc (SF)
Scotland, Heath (RD, MD)
Simpson, Kade (MF)

Forwards:

Smalls:
Betts, Eddie (OM)
Ellard, David (IM, T)
Garlett, Jeffery
Kerr, Rohan
Yarran, Christopher (OM)

Medium:
Houlihan, Ryan (DF, MD, RD)
Robinson, Mitch (IM)
Tiller, Caleb (MD)

Talls:
Casboult, Levi (R)
Donaldson, Joshua (TD)
Fisher, Brad
Henderson, Lachlan (TD)
O'Halpin, Setanta (TD, R)
Waite, Jarrad (TD, RD)

Rucks:

Hampson, Shaun (TF)
Jacobs, Sam
Kreuzer, Matthew (TF)
Warnock, Robert

So with all that done and looking over the list there are several noticeable areas of weakness.

• Only two of our small defenders look AFL-capable (Joseph and Armfield).
• We have a weakness in tall defender depth (with Austin and Thronton regaining form in the VFL) that requires us to utilize some tall forwards there (Waite and Henderson at times).
• Our inside midfielder depth is weak without Mclean (Hadley can only play this position and has not been exceptional at it this year).
• With Houlihan out either Carazzo or Walker is required to be a defensive forward, which depletes our tagging depth considerably as Armfield and Jospeh are tied down to small defender posts.
• Tall forward depth is questionable with O'halpin out of form, requiring Hampson to play as a part-time forward.

This is not all doom and gloom though. We have exceptional outside midfielder, medium defender and small forward depth. With another pre-season I'd expect our inside midfeld problem to dissolve with Johnson and Robinson assuming part-time responsibility and Cachia developing. Therefore our main problem for drafting/recruiting lies in our tall forward/defensive posts and our small defender/tagger conundrum. If Zach Tuohy/Marcus Davies develops strongly one of these issues may be solved, but I still believe we should look at drafting a ready-made small defender/ inside midfielder type. More importantly however augmenting our tall depth should be a focus at this years draft/trade period

Would love to hear others take on this subject and any possible trade/draft targets for this year.

The do list sack all the recruiting staff

 

[Silvagnis]

Busy day MCB?

It must be hard cutting and pasting the same rhetoric over and over again.

 

[GhostofPP]

Busy day MCB?

It must be hard cutting and pasting the same rhetoric over and over again.

imagine how hard living under a bridge would be.........oh wait

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Might not have played that role at AFL level yet, but I would add rebounding defender to Joey Anderson's reportoire.

 

[Koutou43]

Maybe the list assessment should be based on ability.

Not good enough;

Chris Johnson, Brad Fisher, Ryan Houlihan, Brett Thornton, Aaron Joseph, Steven Browne, Mark Austin, Richard Hadley, Andrew Crapazzo,

 

[Bluebear]

Maybe the list assessment should be based on ability.

Not good enough;

Chris Johnson, Brad Fisher, Ryan Houlihan, Brett Thornton, Aaron Joseph, Steven Browne, Mark Austin, Richard Hadley, Andrew Crapazzo,

Not good enough for what exactly.
Two of those have done well for their experience anytime they have played senior footy, one was nearly the best stopper in the league last year and has had an inconsistent year (so if that's your criteria your list is too short), Houlihan was pivotal in the two wins everyone holds so lofty in their minds - Geelong (shutdown Enright - no, it wasn't Clarkson's idea) and Saints (shutdown Fisher), and split the Dees game right down the middle as well.
Carrazzo has also been in indifferent form, but again has shown at times this year to be more than capable of holding his spot in the best 22.

I think the timing of this thread, despite the sense shown in the OP, is only going to invite emotive answers like the one above.

I watched some of the Geelong game last night. I think the Carlton team that beat the Cats would have beaten our team from last Saturday by 10 goals.
Tackling pressure, skill execution, run to support and run to defend......brilliant.

 

[Mr.X]

Only 1 word can describe the list:

Underachievers

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I think there were too many players in our 22 on the weekend that demonstrated a kind of regression in our development over the past 8 weeks.

Although form isn't the only factor - injury is playing a large part as well. I feel many players we included have been found out at the highest level.

------------------------------​

Compare the 22 from R5;


Ave. Age: 23 yrs 171 days
Ave. Games: 81

R.HOULIHAN M.JAMISON A.JOSEPH

D.ARMFIELD S.WHITE J.RUSSELL

B.GIBBS C.JUDD K.SIMPSON

A.WALKER S.O'HAILPI.. M.MURPHY

E.BETTS L.HENDERSO.. C.YARRAN

M.KREUZER H.SCOTLAND A.CARRAZZO

B.MCLEAN R.WARNOCK K.LUCAS J.GARLETT

To the one from last round;

Ave. Age: 23 yrs 313 days
Ave. Games: 78

A.JOSEPH M.JAMISON P.BOWER

A.CARRAZZO J.WAITE J.RUSSELL

H.SCOTLAND C.JUDD S.GRIGG

K.SIMPSON B.FISHER A.WALKER

E.BETTS L.HENDERSO.. S.HAMPSON

R.WARNOCK B.GIBBS M.MURPHY

D.ARMFIELD J.GARLETT C.JOHNSON C.YARRAN

------------------------------
​

What I see is a return to playing players who are not ready at this level, who have been found out at this level, or who are too open to exploitation. And we've somehow got older, and less experienced. Reverting to players such as Chris Johnson and Shaun Grigg for instance is pretty emblematic of the way our season has fallen away.

There are players from these teams who I feel may be holding us back in the very short this year. Namely;

Fisher - Just doesn't meet enough minimum requirements for a player at 26 or so years of age. Can't kick far enough, isn't fast enough, isn't agile enough. Was a fantastic third option in 'those' years but will really struggle without a real forward target alongside of him.

Hampson - A magnificent idea, not quite there in terms of actual results. Don't quote rubbish junktime goals in games we had already won or lost and high marking late in games when every other player is completely fatigued. Could be a jet - but his footspeed doesn't make up for his lack of nous which sees him too far behind the play before he has even made a decision. And his physical size is consequently redundant. It might be a bit of a question as to whether he could develop as fast as Irish has this year in the forwardline - which I really hope he does. Probably nowhere better for him to learn than in the firsts, but we've had the pleasure of seeing all 4 of our rucks at work this year and Hampson has produced the least with his work at stoppages.

Carrazzo - Don't get me wrong he has had some stellar games this season, but when out of form provides very little. Much of his game revolves around being fleet of mind rather than foot and gets exposed on the rebound with a lack of pace. Has gone backwards in his disposal after making such progress at the start of the year. I love him to bits, and he (usually) puts in a top performance against the Dons, but is representative of Carlton circa 2005, and at his core is at the 'talent' level of Wiggins and Fisher.

Thornton - Not agressive enough, and can use the football well under minimal pressure, however he had a stellar season in 2008 and a decent one in 09, but this year has been found out for being far to tentative, and another who can be readily exposed by third talls. Pit Fisher against Thornton for instance, and I'd back the former everytime, yet I still wouldn't find space for Fisher in my 22.
​

------------------------------
​

There are a few players playing in the seconds that, in many ways represent what we need back in the Navy Blue guernsey. Its not at all that bringing these players back in will fix the situation - just that the dimensions they can bring to our team, have been found severly lacking over the past couple of weeks.

Robinson is that tough-nut, no bullshit midfielder with a tendancy to take on the game. We have been severly lacking in players with balls - not only at the contest - but in breaking the lines when need be. He has both. Is also exploitable like Carrazzo in many respects, but just adds that extra dimension with unparalleled fervor.

O'hAilpin can split packs like no-one else in our team. Perhaps, hasn't half the talent of Hampson or Waite, but we he would galvanise our spine and hopefully restore structure, if nothing else. He, in my opinion, is the only player on our list that provides a predictable spill for our small forwards to crumb from, and as such makes three other players lives far easier simply by his inclusion.​

 

[Stamos]

What I see is a return to playing players who are not ready at this level, who have been found out at this level, or who are too open to exploitation. And we've somehow got older, and less experienced. Reverting to players such as Chris Johnson and Shaun Grigg for instance is pretty emblematic of the way our season has fallen away.


Robinson is that tough-nut, no bullshit midfielder with a tendancy to take on the game. We have been severly lacking in players with balls - not only at the contest - but in breaking the lines when need be. He has both. Is also exploitable like Carrazzo in many respects, but just adds that extra dimension with unparalleled fervor.

O'hAilpin can split packs like no-one else in our team. Perhaps, hasn't half the talent of Hampson or Waite, but we he would galvanise our spine and hopefully restore structure, if nothing else. He, in my opinion, is the only player on our list that provides a predictable spill for our small forwards to crumb from, and as such makes three other players lives far easier simply by his inclusion.​

Firstly with Grigg, he was injured last year, injured during pre-season, and had some setbacks over the first half of this year. All things being equal, he's in our best 22, and would be in the midfield well ahead of Scotland and Carrazzo, so that criticism is not quite fair.

O'Hailpin was crucial to our good form early in the year, but wether it was due to injury (which was how it looked) or some other reason, he lost form woefully, and became a liability. All he had to do to be valuable in our side was to provide a contest and pressure. Over his last approx 4 games, he did not do this.

Mitch is up and down. Played some really really good games, but when he goes missing, he really goes missing. As he builds fitness and experience, I think he will be a very important player for us, but we can't be relying on him at the moment.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

There are a few players playing in the seconds that, in many ways represent what we need back in the Navy Blue guernsey.

(One is) Robinson - that tough-nut, no bullshit midfielder with a tendancy to take on the game. We have been severly lacking in players with balls - not only at the contest - but in breaking the lines when need be. He has both. Is also exploitable like Carrazzo in many respects, but just adds that extra dimension with unparalleled fervor.​

*BUMP*

Half of the equation is in there!​

 

[All Australian]

*BUMP*

Half of the equation is in there![/left]

To be fair you also said reverting to Grigg is pretty emblematic of the way our season had fallen away.

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Granted - although first choices in Walker / Lucas and other players deemed important by the club in McLean and Yarran are, on balance, well ahead of him in selection.

Still not sold on his disposal - but Grigg is one of my favourite on endeavour alone - I stand by that comment.

As an aside, I really feel that this Gold Coast rumour has some truth to it, such that he's a country Victorian boy (so there's no sensational "go home" factor that media outlets jump on) and also that despite some solid form in the VFL earlier in the year he was overlooked time and time again.

 

[AVCO]

Need a centre half back and full forward thats about it... whispers im hearing is Pavlich ..might chase Bock too

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

CHB = Austin... The club seems pretty set on this - I guess it's a matter of if he can stay fit as he has shown some top form in big games for a bloke of probably less than 20 games. (v. St Kilda last year)

FF is another issue - Would like the club to explore its options in finding a KPF by one means or another.

 

[AVCO]

With regards to Grigg being committed to the Gold Coast ..the fact that he hasnt signed on with Carlton ..let me tell you Carlton dont give away any of their players cheaply , personally i dont think he'll go but by some chance he does then it will have to take a great deal for it to happen!

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I think AVCO, if he isn't contracted for next year, then he falls under the AFL's "equation" system where they calculate what picks they give us in compensation.

 

[AVCO]

Yeh Austin is a work in progress could come on in leaps and bounds in the medium term ..White is the one thats coming along well before suffering set back , but really cant run the risk next season with just white and with Thornton past it !

 

[AVCO]

well oh ok ..didnt know that ..still Carlton would have to be happy with the compensation

 

[blues4flag]

O'hAilpin can split packs like no-one else in our team. Perhaps, hasn't half the talent of Hampson or Waite, but we he would galvanise our spine and hopefully restore structure, if nothing else. He, in my opinion, is the only player on our list that provides a predictable spill for our small forwards to crumb from, and as such makes three other players lives far easier simply by his inclusion.[/LEFT]

Really? Did it very well earlier in the season but I thought the drop off in this aspect of his game was a major reason in him being omitted. Misread the flight and more often than not didn't even get near the flight of the ball.

I think Hampson has shown he's as good as anyone on our list at splitting open the packs. Perhaps not so much inside 50 (though definitely improving) as his positioning and leading needs work but when the ball's kicked to congestion on the wing, he gets hands to the ball more often than not and bring the ball to ground.

Henderson in a one on one also breaks even far more often than not though in a pack situation or when outnumbered he struggles to get near it. Something I'm sure will improve with experience and size.

Both offer more to the side than Setanta did in his last 5/6 games. Doesn't look like he's regained form in the seconds and I won't bring him back until he does. Is his calf playing up again?

 

[blues4flag]

well oh ok ..didnt know that ..still Carlton would have to be happy with the compensation

Nup. Under the new system, we get no say in the matter unfortunately, unless the player is contracted. Grigg walks out and the AFL give us a compensation pick. The Gold Coast don't lose anything.

 

[IheartCarrots]

well oh ok ..didnt know that ..still Carlton would have to be happy with the compensation

Carlton would be far happier to keep Grigg. He's a fantastic 2nd tier mid/utility. Not the kind of player you'd want to build your structures around but somebody you want in the team every week if possible.

 

[starchamber]

Need a centre half back and full forward thats about it... whispers im hearing is Pavlich ..might chase Bock too

Pavlich isn't coming never will why we say his name amazes me.