List Mgmt. List design 2022

[soreplums]

Gold Coast beckons to someone like him I reckon

wouldn’t be surprised if Brisbane have a chat if Lachie Neale heads west

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying. However, the heavy reliance on the blokes mentioned above are a huge risk. If 3/4 of the above players miss majority of the season, we will finish bottom 2 again. Imagine Pendles, Howe and Elliot miss most of the season and we will finish bottom 2.

It's ridiculously obvious to point out the fact that a team that finished bottom 2 will finish bottom 2 if a number of their good players miss time.

Those players are productive, even at their age. They'd be amongst the better players at a lot of clubs, and therefore would hurt those clubs if they were missing.

If you have an older player who is good, I'm not sure what you're supposed to do? How do we solve the problem that Pendlebury is turning 34 and still better than some of our younger players?

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Those players are productive, even at their age. They'd be amongst the better players at a lot of clubs, and therefore would hurt those clubs if they were missing.

Realistically, maybe Pendles might be the only player who was good enough for a top 8 teams best 22. Elliot maybe. Roughead, Howe & Sidebottom wouldn’t make many teams in 2022.

 

[DIDAIC0S]

Realistically, maybe Pendles might be the only player who was good enough for a top 8 teams best 22. Elliot maybe. Roughead, Howe & Sidebottom wouldn’t make many teams in 2022.

No, no, no, no and No.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mollythedolly]

If you can save $80,000 on your salary cap with no cost to anyone, why wouldn't you?

Even if it’s just to give you greater flexibility to play the kids more frequently because it covers more match payments for 1st and 2nd year draftees.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying. However, the heavy reliance on the blokes mentioned above are a huge risk. If 3/4 of the above players miss majority of the season, we will finish bottom 2 again. Imagine Pendles, Howe and Elliot miss most of the season and we will finish bottom 2.

Then we finish bottom 2 and take that pick to the draft. Imagine losing JDG as a FA and then having picks 2 & 3.

 

[sr36]

Even if it’s just to give you greater flexibility to play the kids more frequently because it covers more match payments for 1st and 2nd year draftees.

The thing is you can bank cap savings, either through the AFL mechanism or by front loading contracts. Ideally we'll bank a fair bit during our development phase. If you run with 6 rather than 4 rookies, you're saving 160,000.

 

[Gone Critical]

Our issues in our current list design in my opinion are

1. Our top end talent is unbalanced toward the older demographic. (ND 1st big piece in rectifying this)
2. We have a hole in the 21yo-25yo part of the list (Kreuger and Lipinski hopefully start to help this)\
3. We have a lot of kids in the 18-20yo group, and some nice looking players to boot, but comparitively we still have potentially one of the lesser groups of young talent compared to most of our rivals.

Its a tricky rebuild, to be successful i think we need Hine and his team to outperform significantly and our development coaches to be in the excellent range. If we get some of our kids to really come on, based on Hine and development, and we nail the next couple of draft /trade periods we can be back in the game. Its a tough ask but possible. I think it's what we need if we are to have a successful rebuild short term and by that I mean getting into contention mode in the next 3-5 years.

Failed rebuilds are more common than successful ones and I think coming from a difficult position we have to be careful not to go all out too soon. I suspect our more likely path is is some ups and downs over the next 5 years and we are more likely to find that really good list when the current kids are in the 2nd half of their careers.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Our issues in our current list design in my opinion are

1. Our top end talent is unbalanced toward the older demographic. (ND 1st big piece in rectifying this)
2. We have a hole in the 21yo-25yo part of the list (Kreuger and Lipinski hopefully start to help this)\
3. We have a lot of kids in the 18-20yo group, and some nice looking players to boot, but comparitively we still have potentially one of the lesser groups of young talent compared to most of our rivals.

Its a tricky rebuild, to be successful i think we need Hine and his team to outperform significantly and our development coaches to be in the excellent range. If we get some of our kids to really come on, based on Hine and development, and we nail the next couple of draft /trade periods we can be back in the game. Its a tough ask but possible. I think it's what we need if we are to have a successful rebuild short term and by that I mean getting into contention mode in the next 3-5 years.

Failed rebuilds are more common than successful ones and I think coming from a difficult position we have to be careful not to go all out too soon. I suspect our more likely path is is some ups and downs over the next 5 years and we are more likely to find that really good list when the current kids are in the 2nd half of their careers.

Think we need astute and ruthless management over the next 3 years in particular.

We also need to get lucky in that some of the young brigade turn out to be players and that even some of them want to leave.

Sound strange i know, but IMO, to create a sustainable period, clubs need to be prepared to let players go for good draft capital (or player exchange).
H.Shaw for adams was a perfect example of this, from a trade perspective (whether it worked or not is beside the point....i'm talking about the idea behind it).
Daniher / Saad last year for the bombers allowed them to re-generate effectively. Which was a perfect storm for them.

Up until this year, we haven't done this since 2016-2017 (we've done the complete opposite).

As an example, lets say in 2-3 years some of the young 'good players' want to leave, then we need to be open to this in the name of sustainability rather than paying 'overs' to keep them on potential.
That is how teams build success. It keeps the cap low(ish) and allows to go hard at FA when the time is right.

So for me, if we lose one of the big three this year.....it may actually turn out to be better for us based on where the list is at.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Think we need astute and ruthless management over the next 3 years in particular.

We also need to get lucky in that some of the young brigade turn out to be players and that even some of them want to leave.

Sound strange i know, but IMO, to create a sustainable period, clubs need to be prepared to let players go for good draft capital (or player exchange).
H.Shaw for adams was a perfect example of this, from a trade perspective (whether it worked or not is beside the point....i'm talking about the idea behind it).
Daniher / Saad last year for the bombers allowed them to re-generate effectively. Which was a perfect storm for them.

Up until this year, we haven't done this since 2016-2017 (we've done the complete opposite).

As an example, lets say in 2-3 years some of the young 'good players' want to leave, then we need to be open to this in the name of sustainability rather than paying 'overs' to keep them on potential.
That is how teams build success. It keeps the cap low(ish) and allows to go hard at FA when the time is right.

So for me, if we lose one of the big three this year.....it may actually turn out to be better for us based on where the list is at.

yup, completely agree with this. Furthermore, I also think we need smart with our picks.

For example, teams were throwing 2 first round picks for pick 2, and some reports of 3 first round picks for 1.

If we are in a position to get 2 top 10 kids instead of 1, I hope we take that part.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying. However, the heavy reliance on the blokes mentioned above are a huge risk. If 3/4 of the above players miss majority of the season, we will finish bottom 2 again. Imagine Pendles, Howe and Elliot miss most of the season and we will finish bottom 2.

So what if we finish 2nd last. I would prefer we develop the kids finish 2nd last compared to playing all of our senior players every week and finishing 8th. If we dont see if players like Dean, McInnis, McCrae, Ginnvan etc can play and develop into AFL quality players, we will slowly slip back down the ladder over the next few years and the rebuild will take much longer.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Just looking at our list. You know that our salary cap situation is totally stuffed when John Noble is not on our senior list.

I also am intrigued as to how he remains on the rookie list considering 3 years is the maximum time one can spend on a rookie list and considering this will be his 4th year (if you include 2019) and he is contracted until the end of 2022. Even if that first year he got picked up in the mid-season draft (2019) doesn't count towards years on the rookie list, he still wouldn't be eligible next season.

Odd situation considering I'd have thought he has well and truly earned his stripes to be on our senior list considering he's played for the majority of the last two seasons in the senior side.

The AFL allowed a fourth year to compensate for rookies losing a year of development due to Covid.

I can’t remember Collingwood ever having promoted a rookie earlier than they needed to (eg: Mihocek stayed on the rookie list for a full 3 years despite being our best goal kicker)

 

[Masked Magician]

So what if we finish 2nd last. I would prefer we develop the kids finish 2nd last compared to playing all of our senior players every week and finishing 8th. If we dont see if players like Dean, McInnis, McCrae, Ginnvan etc can play and develop into AFL quality players, we will slowly slip back down the ladder over the next few years and the rebuild will take much longer.

100% agree with this. Happy to have 22 and even 23 pumping games into

F Macrae
Reef
Henry
N Daicos
Ruscoe

and then the 2-3 of Poulter, Beau, McMahon, Bianco, Draper, Dean etc and see who show's a bit as well.

 

[76woodenspooners]

IMO Forces that will push us up the ladder in 2022 …

- Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

only played 13 games in 2021. Hopefully he plays more than that in 2022.
- Jeremy Howe

38

Jeremy Howe

Age

35

Ht

190cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.1

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

21.5

5star

K

16.5

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

6.5

5star

T

2.0

3star

MG

433.3

5star

D

15.2

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

only played 8 games in 2021. Despite getting towards the end if his career, I’m tipping a more productive 2022.
- I want to be optimistic that Grundy will benefit from the change in the coaching group, and him have a better 2022.
- IQ still has development left in him and will get better.
- Poulter will be better this year for the experience / pre-season.
- Ditto Henry
- Ditto Macrae
- Ditto McCreery
- Ditto Bianco
- Ditto Ginnivan / Ruscoe / Kelly / Keane / Wilson
- Let’s be optimistic, out: JT, in: Krueger
- Out: Sier, in: Lipinski
- I want to be optimistic that McInnis will be injury free and give a good account of himself
- The competition for spots will be as intense as it could ever be. Very low number of round 1 best 22 locks.
- The general energy that comes with a new coaching panel.
- A lot of expectations on a first year player, but if Nick Daicos is as good as Jayden Stephenson was in his first year then he can make our team better.
- Our mature age players, Johnson and Dean providing good coverage.
- With us finishing 17th, the easier draw
- Stable club, no headlines around the senior coach or the board (hopefully!)
- Other?


IMO Forces that will push us down the ladder in 2022 ..

- New gameplan for the team to learn and get proficient with
- Aging of players like Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Roughead, Elliott, Cox, WHE
- Fate of Jordan DeGoey?
- Our list has lost a lot of maturity with JT and Mayne both having played a lot of games in 2021. Plus losing Greenwood around the club.
- Loss of ruck coverage with Lynch leaving.
- Other?

Undecided …

- Which way will Josh Daicos

7

Josh Daicos

Age

27

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

MG

230.5

4star

D

16.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.5

4star

MG

230.5

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

go?
- Ditto Tyler Brown

21

Tyler Brown

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

3star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

1star

HB

7.0

4star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.6

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

7.0

5star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.4

4star

CL

0.6

3star

?
- Ditto Callum Brown?
- Ditto Nathan Murphy

28

Nathan Murphy

Age

26

Ht

192cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

3star

MG

176.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.5

3star

K

6.5

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

4star

MG

176.5

3star

?
- Will injuries go up or down? 2021 was kinda average and it could have been worse or better.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Undecided …

- Which way will Josh Daicos go?
- Ditto Tyler Brown?
- Ditto Callum Brown?
- Ditto Nathan Murphy?
- Will injuries go up or down? 2021 was kinda average and it could have been worse or better.

Good post, agree with it. Just want to respond to the last part.

J Daicos: looks at least AFL standard. May get better with brotherly competition. See him doing well next season baring injury.

Tyler Brown: think he can play. However imo he lacks confidence and this will probably be his undoing. There is now a lot of competition for his spot in the team and it will be hard for him to cement him spot. (Not a bad thing) Needs to be injury free to maximise his chances or he will be delisted soon.

Calcuim Bown: Had 1 good quarter against Richmond last year. His disposal both by hand and foot has been poor and he is small and he dosent look AFL standard. Doesnt mean he cant improve, he has nice evasion and he can slip a tackle which is a very under rated trait because it usually gives you time and space to hit a target. Im not one to look at a player after a few bad games and say thats as good as he gets. But he has one more year to improve or he is gone. I think he wont be on the list in 2023.

Nathan Murphy: looks to slow to be a good forward or back flanker and not big enough to be a KP player. I like the way he gets his hands on the ball but he always seams to drop those marks he should be taking. Another who needs a good season or he is probably done. Wont be on the list 2023 imo.

The issue with injuries last was not the number of them but that affected our best players. Moore out for 7-9 games. Elliott out for 10+ games. Adams out for 10 or so games. Howe out for 15 or so games. Pendlebury out for the last 5-6 games. Thats 5 of our best 10 players. Sure injury free those players would have gotten us 2-4 more wins, but I still think we need to develop the kids rather then play Howe for 22 games next year. The bloke turns 32 in July.

 

[HFF]

The transitioning of the list has been refreshing and it will continue next year.
We should continue to go down the draft path----especially as our salary cap is just about resolved and this will be a key element in the coming years moreso than the immediate short term for when we do plunge the free agency and trade markets.
We dont need to be giving away early draft capital this early in the transition even if a buy like Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

comes along---we arent ready yet.

 

[Herzog]

I was just looking at the players list on the club website. Under each player's name it had their position. These ones caught my attention

Cox: Key Forward
Begg: Ruck
Ruscoe: Defender
Krueger: Key Defender

I also noticed our first year draftees don't have their pictures up yet.

Official AFL Website of the Collingwood Football Club

The official AFL website of the Collingwood Football Club

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

 

[Jen2310]

I was just looking at the players list on the club website. Under each player's name it had their position. These ones caught my attention

Cox: Key Forward
Begg: Ruck
Ruscoe: Defender
Krueger: Key Defender

I also noticed our first year draftees don't have their pictures up yet.

Official AFL Website of the Collingwood Football Club

The official AFL website of the Collingwood Football Club

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

They're prob waiting til photo day in Feb lol

I wouldn't worry too much about the roles, its organised by the afl admins who get things wrong. They prob remember Krueger being a key defender at Geelong in 2021.

 

[TradeDraft]

Could they have a Covid List so IF Players Test Positive they have Reserve Players to call on to play?

 

[Harry O]

Could they have a Covid List so IF Players Test Positive they have Reserve Players to call on to play?

NBA currently have that.
Might be a possibility with VFL players put on some sort of COVID supplementary list to ensure the season continues for the tv rights money

 

[76woodenspooners]

At this rate it’s looking like everybody is destined to get Omicron. And that would include footy players and coaching staff. Most will likely get very mild symptoms, and maybe miss 1 to 4 weeks. (Even those who have no symptoms would probably be forced to sit games out until they’re COVID negative). A bunch will probably get long COVID out of it and be out of action for months.

I just can’t see how that wouldn’t throw the AFL season into total chaos and lead to its abandonment?

2020 was significantly disrupted, 2021 was mildly disrupted … and that was when we managed to effectively keep COVID out of the playing population.

On the evidence so far, I just can’t see how we can keep omicron out of the playing population this season?

 

[Jen2310]

At this rate it’s looking like everybody is destined to get Omicron. And that would include footy players and coaching staff. Most will likely get very mild symptoms, and maybe miss 1 to 4 weeks. (Even those who have no symptoms would probably be forced to sit games out until they’re COVID negative). A bunch will probably get long COVID out of it and be out of action for months.

I just can’t see how that wouldn’t throw the AFL season into total chaos and lead to its abandonment?

2020 was significantly disrupted, 2021 was mildly disrupted … and that was when we managed to effectively keep COVID out of the playing population.

On the evidence so far, I just can’t see how we can keep omicron out of the playing population this season?

New isolation rules, if you get covid, you only need to isolate for 7 days. Test on day 6 with a rapid test. And if negative you are free to go.

Close contacts the same, 7 days.

I wouldn't think they'd miss anymore than 1 game, as long as they feel okay.

 

[sr36]

At this rate it’s looking like everybody is destined to get Omicron. And that would include footy players and coaching staff. Most will likely get very mild symptoms, and maybe miss 1 to 4 weeks. (Even those who have no symptoms would probably be forced to sit games out until they’re COVID negative). A bunch will probably get long COVID out of it and be out of action for months.

I just can’t see how that wouldn’t throw the AFL season into total chaos and lead to its abandonment?

2020 was significantly disrupted, 2021 was mildly disrupted … and that was when we managed to effectively keep COVID out of the playing population.

On the evidence so far, I just can’t see how we can keep omicron out of the playing population this season?

With the let it rip decisions that have been made, it will have peaked and declined by March.

 

[TradeDraft]

At this rate it’s looking like everybody is destined to get Omicron. And that would include footy players and coaching staff. Most will likely get very mild symptoms, and maybe miss 1 to 4 weeks. (Even those who have no symptoms would probably be forced to sit games out until they’re COVID negative). A bunch will probably get long COVID out of it and be out of action for months.

I just can’t see how that wouldn’t throw the AFL season into total chaos and lead to its abandonment?

2020 was significantly disrupted, 2021 was mildly disrupted … and that was when we managed to effectively keep COVID out of the playing population.

On the evidence so far, I just can’t see how we can keep omicron out of the playing population this season?

No way in Hell as we seen with Cricket and A-League that only a Matter of Time though IF its weaker as Reported the Rules around Covid won't be so Strong

 

[Harry O]

South Africa and UK experience shows this variant has a sharp uptake initially and just as sharp a decline soon after

footy season in March will be fine (of course Smugowan idiocy may see the 2 WA teams relocated to Vic for start of season)