Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[Peter M11]

The newspapers certainly weren't at all reliable with the spelling of players' names back in those days, so it's very likely that any discrepancy can be put down to that. A few references to Mullins can be found, but many more seem to have Mullens. Any official records I've checked have Mullens, as well. He was T. Mullens in the Football Record when he received his permit to go from Footscray to Carlton in 1926.

BDM does have it as Mullens when he died in 1961:
Event Death
Event registration number 14850
Registration year 1961

Personal information
Family name MULLENS
Given names Thomas Patrick
Sex Male
Father's name MULLENS Thomas
Mother's name Isabella (Mckenzie)
Place of birth BALLARAT
Place of death FOOTSCRAY WEST
Age 61

This is an old thread I stumbled across but I thought I would reply anyway.

The spelling is indeed Mullens not Mullins. The reason I know this is Tom Mullens was my Grandfather's brother. He played for Footscray for a number of years in the VFA, was full forward for Footscray in the VFA/VFL championship of Victoria match against Essendon played on 4th October 1924 which Footscray won. And as noted earlier, he was one of the inaugural players for Footscray when they joined the VFL in 1925 before crossing to Carlton to finish his career.

 

[35Daicos]

This is an old thread I stumbled across but I thought I would reply anyway.

The spelling is indeed Mullens not Mullins. The reason I know this is Tom Mullens was my Grandfather's brother. He played for Footscray for a number of years in the VFA, was full forward for Footscray in the VFA/VFL championship of Victoria match against Essendon played on 4th October 1924 which Footscray won. And as noted earlier, he was one of the inaugural players for Footscray when they joined the VFL in 1925 before crossing to Carlton to finish his career.

Chances are you've seen it, but there's quite a decent article (with a photo) on Tom Mullens here: A Pivot of Note - Footscray’s Forward “Cog” - Sporting Globe (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954) - 2 Aug 1924

 

[35Daicos]

Jim Sadler (and not Tom Baxter) was in Collingwood's 1909 Rd. 4 team that played Richmond. The AFL has been notified of this (via Collingwood), the change has been approved and their records will be amended. The change has also been made on Collingwood Forever: 1909: Collingwood vs Richmond (Round 4)

The evidence that this change was needed was overwhelming (Baxter had just quit VFL football, though he did change his mind and soon was playing again)!:



*****************



Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*

 

[Oliver G]

Jim Sadler (and not Tom Baxter) was in Collingwood's 1909 Rd. 4 team that played Richmond. The AFL has been notified of this (via Collingwood), the change has been approved and their records will be amended. The change has also been made on Collingwood Forever: 1909: Collingwood vs Richmond (Round 4)

The evidence that this change was needed was overwhelming (Baxter had just quit VFL football, though he did change his mind and soon was playing again)!:
View attachment 1489528
View attachment 1489598
View attachment 1489672
*****************View attachment 1489674
View attachment 1489678
View attachment 1489686

Oliver Gigacz
*Paul*

Thanks Daicos! AF updated.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

While on the topic of Sadlers....
Barry Sadler (Fitzroy) passed away on 2 Dec 2019 - see tribute from his daughter
This seems not to have made it into records yet - may well have been missed as he moved to Qld after leaving Fitzroy

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Frank Samblebe (Hawthorn) is listed with a date of death as 10 October 1986
Springvale cemetery records show his death date was actually 1 October 1986 - his cremation was on 6 October...

Summary: Date of death for Frank Andrew Samblebe to be changed from 10 October 1986 to 1 October 1986

 

[35Daicos]

George Cowell played for both Collingwood and Carlton: George Cowell | Wikiwand

Here are the BDM registrations for the chap shown above:

So he was married in 1894 (not to Janet as it says on Wikipedia). He's buried at Ballarat with Emily Maud and their son.

As long as this newspaper article is correct the footballer was in fact married in 1899. George Cowell played for Carlton on 29 July 1899 but didn’t play the 5 August game:

This is the only Cowell marriage on Vic BDM in 1899:

There's a fair chance that's not the footballer anyway, but I haven't been able to track this person/couple down. From what I can see it's almost certain the game's official records have identified the wrong man, so if anyone wants to jump in and have a look please do!

As well as the obvious issue with the player being wrongly identified, on his Wikipedia page it suggests he left Collingwood for Carlton late in the 1898 season but that's not correct. He played his final game for Collingwood on 10 September, and went to Carlton in May 1899:

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

George Cowell played for both Collingwood and Carlton...

This is the only Cowell marriage on Vic BDM in 1899:
View attachment 1505484
There's a fair chance that's not the footballer anyway, but I haven't been able to track this person/couple down. From what I can see it's almost certain the game's official records have identified the wrong man, so if anyone wants to jump in and have a look please do!

The William Cowell who married Jessie Emma James was a prominent jockey in Victoria and later India
Born 26 July 1871 in Gippsland, Victoria
Died 15 Sept 1903 in Bombay, India - see obit here
No reference to him ever playing football and he was riding winners at Flemington at the times Cowell was playing for Collingwood/Carlton - he is not our man

 

[35Daicos]

The William Cowell who married Jessie Emma James was a prominent jockey in Victoria and later India
Born 26 July 1871 in Gippsland, Victoria
Died 15 Sept 1903 in Bombay, India - see obit here
No reference to him ever playing football and he was riding winners at Flemington at the times Cowell was playing for Collingwood/Carlton - he is not our man

Thanks for that. This is from NSW BDM, and just might be a possibility:

The couple were living at Blayney NSW in 1913, so it's probably not him.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

...From what I can see it's almost certain the game's official records have identified the wrong man, so if anyone wants to jump in and have a look please do!

I've looked at this and I suspect the newspaper article referring to Cowell being on his honeymoon might be wrong or we are looking at someone who used an assumed name/had no official records under the name George Cowell.

If we look at what we can find out about the footballer:

• Cowell playing with Beaufort in 1893 FOOTBALL. - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 18 Jul 1893
• G. Cowell appears in multiple sporting reports from the Beaufort region - (cricket, shooting, draughts etc) in 1893-1896 period.
• Cowell, of Beaufort, makes his debut with South Ballarat in a game against South Melbourne on 30/05/1896 SPORTING NEWS. - FOOTBALL. SOUTH BALLARAT V SOUTH MELBOURNE - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 1 Jun 1896
• Plays against Williamstown on 13/06/1896 SPORTING NEWS. - FOOTBALL. - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 12 Jun 1896
• I cannot find mention of him playing in 1987
• G. Cowell from Ballarat will play with Collingwood THE SEASON'S START - GENERAL GOSSIP GLEANED FROM ALL QUARTERS - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 13 May 1898
• G. Cowell obtains permit from Collingwood to Carlton FOOTBALL. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 11 May 1899
• Named as “George Cowell” in The Herald WORLD OF SPORT. - FOOTBALL .WHAT IS DOING GENERALLY. IN CLUB CIRCLES. - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 7 Jul 1899
• G. Cowell obtains permit from Carlton to North Melbourne FOOTBALL. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 3 May 1900
• Cowell played for North in the Round 1 loss to Richmond FOOTBALL. - Secretaries kindly send in their Results not later than Tuesday Evenings, to secure insertion. Please place same in Editor's Box. NORTH MELB. v. RICHMOND. - North Melbourne Courier and West Melbourne Advertiser (Vic. : 1895 - 1913) - 11 May 1900
• While listed in North’s extended squad in subsequent weeks, does not play again

Given he played 1893-1900 (at least) he is almost certainly born in the period 1870-1875 and he used the name George Cowell.

I've looked at Vic birth records, Vic marriage records and electoral rolls and can't find any sensible candidates other than the currently identified player. Various sources show that Albert David George Cowell was known as George Cowell (e.g. his son's WWI enlistment) and his family spent time in Ballan, Beaufort & Ballarat.

I even checked out who else was omitted that week (Bobadil Hooper) to see if he might have on his honeymoon but he got married the next year

 

[35Daicos]

I've looked at this and I suspect the newspaper article referring to Cowell being on his honeymoon might be wrong or we are looking at someone who used an assumed name/had no official records under the name George Cowell.

If we look at what we can find out about the footballer:

• Cowell playing with Beaufort in 1893 FOOTBALL. - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 18 Jul 1893
• G. Cowell appears in multiple sporting reports from the Beaufort region - (cricket, shooting, draughts etc) in 1893-1896 period.
• Cowell, of Beaufort, makes his debut with South Ballarat in a game against South Melbourne on 30/05/1896 SPORTING NEWS. - FOOTBALL. SOUTH BALLARAT V SOUTH MELBOURNE - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 1 Jun 1896
• Plays against Williamstown on 13/06/1896 SPORTING NEWS. - FOOTBALL. - The Ballarat Star (Vic. : 1865 - 1924) - 12 Jun 1896
• I cannot find mention of him playing in 1987
• G. Cowell from Ballarat will play with Collingwood THE SEASON'S START - GENERAL GOSSIP GLEANED FROM ALL QUARTERS - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 13 May 1898
• G. Cowell obtains permit from Collingwood to Carlton FOOTBALL. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 11 May 1899
• Named as “George Cowell” in The Herald WORLD OF SPORT. - FOOTBALL .WHAT IS DOING GENERALLY. IN CLUB CIRCLES. - The Herald (Melbourne, Vic. : 1861 - 1954) - 7 Jul 1899
• G. Cowell obtains permit from Carlton to North Melbourne FOOTBALL. - The Age (Melbourne, Vic. : 1854 - 1954) - 3 May 1900
• Cowell played for North in the Round 1 loss to Richmond FOOTBALL. - Secretaries kindly send in their Results not later than Tuesday Evenings, to secure insertion. Please place same in Editor's Box. NORTH MELB. v. RICHMOND. - North Melbourne Courier and West Melbourne Advertiser (Vic. : 1895 - 1913) - 11 May 1900
• While listed in North’s extended squad in subsequent weeks, does not play again

Given he played 1893-1900 (at least) he is almost certainly born in the period 1870-1875 and he used the name George Cowell.

I've looked at Vic birth records, Vic marriage records and electoral rolls and can't find any sensible candidates other than the currently identified player. Various sources show that Albert David George Cowell was known as George Cowell (e.g. his son's WWI enlistment) and his family spent time in Ballan, Beaufort & Ballarat.

I even checked out who else was omitted that week (Bobadil Hooper) to see if he might have on his honeymoon but he got married the next year

Thanks a lot for going to all that trouble. I'm happy to agree with what you've come up with there, given there's nothing at all that backs up the newspaper story, and the lack of a suitable candidate for someone else to be the VFL player! It really is a strange thing for the paper to get wrong if that is what happened!

The Herald had this four weeks after it had the honeymoon story:

He didn't play seniors for Carlton in that time, so maybe it was just that issue that kept him out for a few weeks?

If someone can still make a couple of changes on his Wikipedia page that would be good:


The Encyclopedia has Cowell playing for Carlton 1898-99, and that's likely to be where the error came from, but he was with Collingwood until the very end of 1898 and joined Carlton in May 1899.
Albert David George Cowell wasn't married to Janet (who was nee Bennett, and died in 1950):

 

[35Daicos]

Bill Casey is in the records as having played for Carlton vs. Fitzroy in the 1899 Sectional Rd. 1 (Rd. 15) game, but it seems very likely he didn't play: AFL Tables - Fitzroy v Carlton - Sat, 26-Aug-1899 2:30 PM - Match Stats


The Herald does name Casey in the side for that game:

But this bit in the same paper a week later probably suggests he'd been out of the team:

If Casey is to come out of the side obviously a replacement needs to be found, but I haven't spotted the name (of a player who wasn't named) yet. Bill Sharkey is in the team a week later, without being mentioned as an 'in', and I'm wondering if he was a late replacement for Casey against Fitzroy. Sharkey was in the team for Carlton's previous game (Rd. 14 - played 12 August). He was named in the squad for the Fitzroy game:

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

If someone can still make a couple of changes on his Wikipedia page that would be good...

Done

 

[Connor7395]

May have found a missing first kick, first goal entrant.
North Melbourne's Michael Passmore.

AFL Tables - Michael Passmore - Stats - Statistics

afltables.com

Recorded as having 1 kick in his first game for 1 goal (never kicked one after that)

 

[rbartlett]

May have found a missing first kick, first goal entrant.
North Melbourne's Michael Passmore.

AFL Tables - Michael Passmore - Stats - Statistics

afltables.com

Recorded as having 1 kick in his first game for 1 goal (never kicked one after that)

Passmore kicks North's last goal of the game at the 27mins of last quarter as seen at 28.28 min of footage

Commentators say 'he's been sitting on the bench watching most of this today'

 

[Connor7395]

Another missing one that seems to be true: Stephen Malaxos, specifically mentioned by the commentator.


And also confirmed by The Age, March 25, 1985.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Les Scollard (Fitzroy) is listed in online sources as having died on 11 Sep 1973
Full name was Leslie Leonard Alfred Scollard and he was born in Fitzroy on 11 Jun 1908
Cemetery record and The Age death notices from 14 Sep 1993 show that current recorded death date probably has a transcription error somewhere and his actual date of death was 11 Sep 1993

Summary: Date of death for Les Scollard to be updated from 11 Sep 1973 to 11 Sep 1993

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

“Bill Scott” who played a single game for Richmond in Round 17 looks like a potentially mis-identified player to me

There is not a lot of evidence about who he was but:

Tigerland Archive has him as “a burly follower who came to Richmond from Euroa with a big reputation”

Scott apparently played with Royals and then first appeared with Euroa Football Club in late May 1909

He appeared consistently throughout the rest of the 1909 season

By July 1909 he was often being referred to as Scotty in match reports - this is important when you read the end of this post

Listed by The Herald in 1910 pre-season as one of several players “regarded as certainties for the Yellow and Black”

Judging by match reports, he still played with Euroa for the 1910 season (note that there is no evidence that any other Scotts played for Euroa in 1909-10), his solitary Richmond game coming the week after Euroa’s season ended when they lost their semi-final. The match report indicates he did not make a good impression.

1910 Richmond annual report names him simply as “W. Scott”

This all lines up with someone named “William Scott” until I came across these two articles…

In November 1910 the following appeared in the Euroa Advertiser: “A departure that will be learnt of with regret is that of Mr Walter Scott, who leaves for Werribee on Saturday next. The popular "Scotty" will be farewelled to-night at the North-Eastern hotel.”

Then the next week they reported “Mr. Walter Scott, "who left Euroa for Werribee on Saturday evening last, was farewelled at the North-Eastern hotel on the evening previous to his departure. Mr. G. M. Allen capably acted as chairman, and during the proceedings referred to the good qualities of the guest of the evening, and considered that the town was the poorer {{text illegible}} fellow {{text illegible}} greatly missed in the football team, where he had always "played the game."

Unless they got his name wrong twice it looks like the player was “Walter Scott” and the current person identified as the player (William Harold Scott) might be incorrect - there does not appear to be any evidence on Ancestry that William Harold Scott ever lived in Euroa either.

rbartlett - probably of interest to you! Not sure if you have any other Richmond sources that might help here?

 

[rbartlett]

A look through the Minute Book shows on Aug 23, 1910, the club received correspondence from "W Scott re: playing".
Not further information appears regarding this before or after.

(Note we also had a Bobby Scott play 1909-1910; so just be mindful when researching this Scott query)

 

[rbartlett]

This might help.
This seems to indicate the W Scott who played for Richmond was a policeman.
However this article is Oct 1911 and says he played for Richmond that lost to Carlton at Carlton "this season". Everything is correct about that statement, except it was the previous season (1910), not "this season" (1911). (And I dont think theyre confusing it with Bobby Scott who played 1910 and 1911 as his only game against Carlton was Rd 7 1910 at Punt Road)

So. Is the W. Scott who played 1 game in 1910 - a Constable W. Scott, who perhaps was on the beat down at Richmond in Oct 1911
Sundry Squibs. - Richmond Guardian (Vic. : 1884 - 1885; 1894 - 1895; 1902 - 1928) - 14 Oct 1911

A bit further down in the same article it talks about a W Scott who has transferred from East Melbourne to South Melbourne, and that he took some wickets for Richmond (I assume Cricket Club). Is that also our W Scott? and is East Melb / South Melb referring to his posting in the police force?

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

A bit further down in the same article it talks about a W Scott who has transferred from East Melbourne to South Melbourne, and that he took some wickets for Richmond (I assume Cricket Club). Is that also our W Scott? and is East Melb / South Melb referring to his posting in the police force?
View attachment 1519125

Thanks Rhett - the policeman lead is a good one but cant find him yet in Police records on Ancestry

The cricketer is a different person - Vic premier cricket site has him as SCOTT, William Francis John "Bill" (Melb) 1899-00 (2); (SM) 1901-02 to 1913-14 (73); (StK) 1906-07 to 1914‑15 (16); (EM) 1907-08 to 1920-21 (56) b: 25.3.1880 d: 11.9.1969
He played cricket for Victoria and was in Melbourne during the period the footballer was in Euroa

 

[35Daicos]

This does make it look pretty certain he was in the police force, and still based at Richmond early in 1912:

Again they seem to have mixed up the year when he played that one game against Carlton.

 

[rbartlett]

This does make it look pretty certain he was in the police force, and still based at Richmond early in 1912:
View attachment 1519269
Again they seem to have mixed up the year when he played that one game against Carlton.

I've emailed Police Museum contact just in case that have something on file regarding a W. (Walter?) Scott, from Euroa, Richmond Police Station Oct 1911 til at least Jan 1912.

 

[rbartlett]

Police Museum has replied back.
They've checked the staffing for Richmond Police Station 1911-1912 and there's no W. Scott
There is Walter Foy Scott but he was born in 1915, and would later serve with Police.

At Richmond Station in Jan 1912 there was Walter Benjamin Rogers; but not W. Scott alas.
In total they found 6 Scotts who were serving in 1912, but none were Walter or first name W.

 

[35Daicos]

Police Museum has replied back.
They've checked the staffing for Richmond Police Station 1911-1912 and there's no W. Scott
There is Walter Foy Scott but he was born in 1915, and would later serve with Police.

At Richmond Station in Jan 1912 there was Walter Benjamin Rogers; but not W. Scott alas.
In total they found 6 Scotts who were serving in 1912, but none were Walter or first name W.

I think that will be him!: Wikiwand - Wal Rogers

I can't find him now but think I saw a policeman called Rogers-Scott from back in those days. Or Scott-Rogers perhaps?!: