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News Lloyd slams Buckley

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Some fine points made above here. I'd love to have Ling, Burns or Lloyd as assistant coaches down at Pieland.

Lappin strikes me as a mediocrity, but that may be because he comes from Carlton or our forwards have dudded it up. I'd love the serious intensity of the above figures. Harvey seems to have been successful, at least with Beams.
 
Shade said:
Thanks captain obvious Matty Llyod

my only gripe with Buckley so far is his damn stubbornness to make sure Dawes works it quite clearly doesn't and im still not sure why the entire year he has gone with it.

We need a good off-season this one could propel us in to top 2 next year or we could fade away to the middle of the pack
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So lets say for arguments sake, that Dawes gets dropped and Ceglar plays, and is as Bucks probably expects, annihilated. Then we drop Ceglar. Then we try Wood and Jolly in the same team. And then its obvious to everyone that we can't play both in the same team. Then we try Witts and it is also obvious that he is not ready. What do we do then?? Maybe Bucks knows that none of Ceglar, Witts or Wood have what it takes to be a genuine second ruck/forward in the AFL. I for one am pretty sure that none of those guys would do a better job than Dawes. And the thing Lloyd fails to mention, is that against Sydney, Dawes and Cloke were pretty instrumental in winning us the game, and that was 3 weeks ago...if we'd dropped them before that game we probably woudn't have won it, dropping them in the 2 weeks after seems absurd.

We lost against West Coast because we were torched in the midfield. Unfortunately us supporters just love looking at the stats and say well, Pendles, Beams, Sidebottom and Swan played ok, so we must have been ok in there. We weren't. We were horrible in the midfield, starting and probably mostly because of the ruck.
 
Lloyd would be a great addition to our coaching staff, but he is doing too well in the media. Maybe a part time role.

We need guys who are perfectionists, who will push and have the ability to think a bit left field.

It seems a bit too self satisfied down there.
 
Gerard Healy, Mike Sheahan and Paul Roos all agreed tonight that Dawes should be dropped to the VFL for one week then reinstated for the first final.

Wasn't last week our team's last game? If so, all their words and thoughts were wasted. Very conveniently for all of them they overlooked the bleeding obvious, that someone has to ruck with Jolly. I thought it was a good example of superficial journalism, just saying what seemed popular to say without offering any solution other than 'a smaller forward line'.
 

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Its too late to drop Dawes.

We have no other options to play the Leroy Brown so we would be worse off by dumping him.

It was a poor coaching decision in the first place to have Dawesy play this role. He is not suited for it.
 
dalethomas13 said:
Its too late to drop Dawes.

We have no other options to play the Leroy Brown so we would be worse off by dumping him.

It was a poor coaching decision in the first place to have Dawesy play this role. He is not suited for it.
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I agree.

I think Ceglar may have been able to fill that role but it is too late to bring him in now. Mid year would have been the time to give him the bare minimum of experience needed and gauge his performance.
 
I think we simply look like a team that has played in the last 2 GF's and snagged one. Terrific team that needs a downer year before refiring. Look at Hawks similarly in 2008. They're 2009 and 2010 were horrid and rediscovered the drive 3 years later in 2011. Same will be for us.
2011 we cruised through on bursts in 1 quarter for too long and we're paying for it this year. We haven't had the year of hurt we need until this year. This is 2009.

As for Bucks not dropping Dawes and Cloke, that is why these guys like Lloyd are on the sidelines. That was never the solution. Team dynamics is crucial and although they haven't been grabbing down the high ball they've at least been competitive. Hopefully a burst like Geelong did at this time last year is in us beccause they're aren't a lot of good teams in it this year, probably only Hawks look like the package this year, but they can look stupid when their backline is sat on.

I'm more worried about in a particaulr order;

Lappin - does he really know how to coach tall forwards?
Harvey - defensive set-ups at stoppages are not there a lot (we leave one side of every stoppage open - wtf?)
Rocket - he was getting burnt by the media for his lack of buy in to the press in 2010 and 2011, I just wonder whether he's much of a good tactical influence. The way we've kicked in and defended kick ins has been stupid.
 
rose jam said:
I think we simply look like a team that has played in the last 2 GF's and snagged one. Terrific team that needs a downer year before refiring. Look at Hawks similarly in 2008. They're 2009 and 2010 were horrid and rediscovered the drive 3 years later in 2011. Same will be for us.
2011 we cruised through on bursts in 1 quarter for too long and we're paying for it this year. We haven't had the year of hurt we need until this year. This is 2009.

As for Bucks not dropping Dawes and Cloke, that is why these guys like Lloyd are on the sidelines. That was never the solution. Team dynamics is crucial and although they haven't been grabbing down the high ball they've at least been competitive. Hopefully a burst like Geelong did at this time last year is in us beccause they're aren't a lot of good teams in it this year, probably only Hawks look like the package this year, but they can look stupid when their backline is sat on.

I'm more worried about in a particaulr order;

Lappin - does he really know how to coach tall forwards?
Harvey - defensive set-ups at stoppages are not there a lot (we leave one side of every stoppage open - wtf?)
Rocket - he was getting burnt by the media for his lack of buy in to the press in 2010 and 2011, I just wonder whether he's much of a good tactical influence. The way we've kicked in and defended kick ins has been stupid.
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Agree with a lot of this, particularly though the Hawthorn post 2008 reference. We were a bit too smart for our pants last year and need a little pain to needle us in the right direction.
 
Do our midfielders set up well enough to defend? Do they truly have a mindset that is defensive enough?

Do our key forwards know how to lead? Is Cloke always taking contested marks because he isn't creating a gap between his opponent? It used to be a major talking point how the Collingwood forward line would block and work for each other - haven't heard that this year.
 
Pera said:
Um, right, not sure where to start with this.

So you're saying, we have already trialled a smaller forward line structure, while both Dawes and Cloke were sitting in the F50. Wow, that seems like the same structure we have used all season, wouldn't you say?

The midfielders just seems to plonk the ball on Cloke and Dawes's head, seemingly because they are big and strong. If the get out kick was a forced option to someone on the lead, you think they would actually try and hit them up for a change? No, they'd probably go back to instinct and continue to bomb the ball forward to our small forwards.

And we hit up three, maybe four passes on the lead inside 50 on Saturday night. Rarely enough to win you a game of football. Maybe instead of making judgement on a couple of games, watch EVERY game and then come back to me.
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I'm AT every game dude.

Our forwards don't actually know how to lead properly. Do the midfielders usually ignore the small forwards in favour of the big guys? No doubt. But when they DO target the smalls, they have no issue hitting them lace out more often than not.

Cloke and Dawes have actually forgotten how to lead. Or are just not fast enough anymore perhaps? The one critique I have on the mids is that when the lead up option isnt there, they don't seem to kick to the advantage side of the forward in the contest, which is football 101.

But as I said earlier (or in another thread), our players are dumb, so that doesn't surprise me.
 
Whilst i agree with Lloyd’s comments, what other options are there?

Keefe is gone. Tarrant has been out until recently and our kids in the 2s are not developed to the point where they can come in and the pointy end of the season and add winning value.

Perhaps we can move Reid forward and drop one of them, but you can’t drop Dawes for Wood, slows us down and despite his poor season, you can’t drop Cloke for a kid and play a forward line of Reid and Dawes.
 

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Shpeshal Ed said:
I'm AT every game dude.

Our forwards don't actually know how to lead properly. Do the midfielders usually ignore the small forwards in favour of the big guys? No doubt. But when they DO target the smalls, they have no issue hitting them lace out more often than not.

Cloke and Dawes have actually forgotten how to lead. Or are just not fast enough anymore perhaps? The one critique I have on the mids is that when the lead up option isnt there, they don't seem to kick to the advantage side of the forward in the contest, which is football 101.

But as I said earlier (or in another thread), our players are dumb, so that doesn't surprise me.
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Absolutely. There seems a lack of genuine football smarts from Cloke and Dawes - my theory being that they rely on hard work for their possessions rather than having an ability to read the play. I think their leading/positioning makes the midfielders job of passing or putting to advantage more difficult.

Tarrant is better placed in defense, though it's clear he is a much better leading option than either Cloke or Dawes because he knows where to go)
 

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