Looks like things are back to usual ...

[Philhawk]

Well yeh I don't think I really need to say anything altogether. How ing pathetic were we today? ...

After having a decent opening half we just went to tatters afterwards and got hammered in all departments. Our so called "young, developing midfield" was made to look like bull by the Kangaroos - thats not taking anything away from then - but our AA ruckman, Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis all ended up being made look like second rate hacks.

Zac Dawson. Need I say anything? For F***S SAKE! OK. First time it happens im willing to let Clarkson off saying "he's new and he was giving the kid some experience." Next time it happens, similar Full Forward, similar story. Thompson kicked what? 8.2 on Dawson after Clarko gave him the brilliant advice of "playing in front of him". Wow de ja vu all of a sudden ...

Our lack of marking forwards was what lost it for us in the end. Croad was decent, but can't kick straight to save his life. At his age, nothing is going to change. Its about time Clarkson just kept him at Centre Half Back and left him there for the rest of the season. I dont care what we do at Full-Back, just get Dawson off and keep him off for the next 55 rounds of footy till he gains 20 kilo's.

In hindsight, our forward line is pathetic. Mark Williams is a dead set gun, yet his effectiveness today was smothered by some good coaching by Laidley who pretty much had two fast guys 5m behind and in front of him all day. Why we couldn't do that to Thompson I don't know ...

Its about time some decent tall forwards were brought into our forward line. I dont mean bringing in more 180cm hacks like Little/Murphy, we need Buddy, Boyle and even Barker in our forward 50 so there is the POSSIBILITY of us taking some contested marks. That said, Roughead looked pretty good I thought when he went forward. Presented himself well but was hampered by 2-3 Kangaroo defenders surrounding him most of the time. Keep him at Full Foward and get one or more of Buddy/Barker/Boyle into our forward line ASAP.

Are you listening Alistair? ...

 

[Bennycoff]

Williams kicked 2.5 was terrible kicking today. Croad wasn't any good either in front of goal. Hodge was awesome, but we weren't that good in the centre.
Campbell Brown is wasted up forward. I feel Guerra is better up forward has a better knowledge of where the goals are.
We wasted too many oppurtunities in the third quarter and ultimately paided for them.

This week I think we must drop Dawson, give him a break. Bring in Boyle and chuck him at CHF or CHB and Croad at the other end. Buddy is injured so there goes his return. Ries did the one percenters and stuff that often goes unnoticed well and kicked a very good goal however I feel he won't play next week unless it rains.
Time to bring in Ben Kane and Grant Birchall, see how they go. Why not bring in Gilham for Dawson.

Changes for this week?

INS - Boyle, Osborne, Kane/Birchall
OUTS - Dawson, Ries, Lewis (susp. maybe)

 

[djs_23]

I know it's early days, but on Lewis, is anyone else a bit underwhelmed by his season so far?

First year, he was outstanding, and showed that he was a legitimate senior footballer, which was a brilliant effort for a rookie.

You expect year two to be a continuation of that, and to me he seems to be stagnating a bit. Not making telling contributions as often as last year, and hasn't really nailed a spot in the top group like he should have.

Thoughts?

 

[Philhawk]

I know it's early days, but on Lewis, is anyone else a bit underwhelmed by his season so far?

First year, he was outstanding, and showed that he was a legitimate senior footballer, which was a brilliant effort for a rookie.

You expect year two to be a continuation of that, and to me he seems to be stagnating a bit. Not making telling contributions as often as last year, and hasn't really nailed a spot in the top group like he should have.

Thoughts?

I think Lewis can be cut some slack. Last year we saw players like Bateman and Mitchell being injured throughout the season so Lewis stepped up and played well in their roles. This year is all abit strange for him seeing as he doesn't seem to have as great a role as he did last year. Wasn't too disappointed by his game today, but yeh, he has a long way to do ...

It seems that everyone is concerned about our lack of backmen? FFS SAKE PEOPLE! WE HAVE NO TALL FORWARDS! (Allow me to have a rant while im in this mood please )

 

[Fat Tony]

I think Lewis can be cut some slack. Last year we saw players like Bateman and Mitchell being injured throughout the season so Lewis stepped up and played well in their roles. This year is all abit strange for him seeing as he doesn't seem to have as great a role as he did last year. Wasn't too disappointed by his game today, but yeh, he has a long way to do ...

It seems that everyone is concerned about our lack of backmen? FFS SAKE PEOPLE! WE HAVE NO TALL FORWARDS! (Allow me to have a rant while im in this mood please )

Agree with you entirely Philhawk we need forwards! were the hell is boyle, franklin, bailey and even taylor (three goals against essendon last year round20) GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER CLARKO NO MORE PIG HEADEDNESS...

 

[djs_23]

I think Lewis can be cut some slack. Last year we saw players like Bateman and Mitchell being injured throughout the season so Lewis stepped up and played well in their roles. This year is all abit strange for him seeing as he doesn't seem to have as great a role as he did last year. Wasn't too disappointed by his game today, but yeh, he has a long way to do ...

It seems that everyone is concerned about our lack of backmen? FFS SAKE PEOPLE! WE HAVE NO TALL FORWARDS! (Allow me to have a rant while im in this mood please )

Good points, I think I'm just getting impatient having seen his potential!!

 

[Tas]

In hindsight, our forward line is pathetic. Mark Williams is a dead set gun, yet his effectiveness today was smothered by some good coaching by Laidley who pretty much had two fast guys 5m behind and in front of him all day. Why we couldn't do that to Thompson I don't know ...

Williams is a fantastic player and we do not really have someone that could go with him that has the same ability overhead. The way we play Williams is to zone out the corridor, it forces him to lead very wide and it is difficult to deliver a lot of quality ball inside 50 so wide and it is tough to score consistantly from the pockts.

I think it was similar the last time we played, I think williams kicked 1 goal and a lot of points doing the same thing.

The only way to counter that is to utilise some other targets up forward that hurt you for zoning off them.

Croad got a bit of the ball but his kicking for goal wasn't great. I was surprised Franklin wasn't playing, he would have been very handy.

 

[Back Pocket Rocket]

I was at my 1st game for the year (still haven't seen us win live since 1999 ) but I thought the turning point was when Young missed his 3 goals on the run. If he had of slotted them then we would have had all momentum and probably won comfortably. Compare that to the Kangas who couldn't miss from outside 50.

In defence of Dawson, a lot of Thommo's goals were from the ground or outside 50 on the boundry(I still can't believe he kicked some of those). His spoiling is ok but he really needs to improve his 2nd efforts!

 

[xyakks]

The best thing Spida did all day was win a clear hit out from a center bounce. Pity it went right into the hands of some nifty little Wells bloke running full pelt to kick a goal. Spida was woeful. Nothing up forward, nothing in the middle. Was he just trying to get back at AC for not giving him that 2 year contract or is he really that bad?

 

[CyberKev]

The only way to counter that is to utilise some other targets up forward that hurt you for zoning off them.

Croad got a bit of the ball but his kicking for goal wasn't great. I was surprised Franklin wasn't playing, he would have been very handy.

Yes.

Hawthorn's main woes at the moment stem from a lack of viable tall forward targets.

I'd swing Franklin & Boyle in this week and have Croad & Roughead filling the key defensive posts. Barker continues to frustrate all at the club, but will still have a role to play across half forward in future weeks.

I doubt Dawson has it in him to make it as a quality FB (he did start out as a project ruckman, after all). He needs to be sent back to Box Hill in a bid to learn more about defensive work at a less hostile level.

Can anyone comment on how well Gilham is progressing at Box Hill?

 

[CyberKev]

I know it's early days, but on Lewis, is anyone else a bit underwhelmed by his season so far?

First year, he was outstanding, and showed that he was a legitimate senior footballer, which was a brilliant effort for a rookie.

You expect year two to be a continuation of that, and to me he seems to be stagnating a bit. Not making telling contributions as often as last year, and hasn't really nailed a spot in the top group like he should have.

Thoughts?

???

Lewis is coming along solidly for mine.

Last season he tended to get more game time across HB and did well for a debutante.

He is clearly better suited to an inside midfield role, however, and has been playing there more this season.

He's averaging around 20 possies a game despite getting a lot of bench time, and will be a key contributer for Hawthorn in the years ahead.

 

[Hawksforever!]

???

Lewis is coming along solidly for mine.

Last season he tended to get more game time across HB and did well for a debutante.

He is clearly better suited to an inside midfield role, however, and has been playing there more this season.

He's averaging around 20 possies a game despite getting a lot of bench time, and will be a key contributer for Hawthorn in the years ahead.

I agree totally with CyberKev, Leiws is progressing nicely, maybe we have an expectation of our younger players to progress rapidly???

Here's hoping he will be a future gun, he certainly has some pig in him which is good to see from our younger brigade and augers well for the future.

 

[Tas]

Yes.

Hawthorn's main woes at the moment stem from a lack of viable tall forward targets.

I think it is the predictability which is hurting more than the lack of targets.

I'd swing Franklin & Boyle in this week and have Croad & Roughead filling the key defensive posts. Barker continues to frustrate all at the club, but will still have a role to play across half forward in future weeks.

How did the scans go on Franklin's hand injury?

Brisbane will be an interesting game, they can field a very tall forward line and I think Matthews may push Brown to FF in order to expose someone who is not great body on body with him. I think Roughead or Croad would be a good option if the lions get a lot of the ball in the middle.

If you dominate in the middle then you do not really have to worry about the supply, Lions are vulnerable in the middle. Hawks are quite quick in the guts and run off well from out of defense, I think you can expose them there.

I doubt Dawson has it in him to make it as a quality FB (he did start out as a project ruckman, after all). He needs to be sent back to Box Hill in a bid to learn more about defensive work at a less hostile level.

Yeah, I think it is quite obvious he isn't a natural defender but he can still make a good defender, for his size he is pretty quick, he did do some nice things, it is just very hard to play the full back position because any mistake you make is a guaranteed goal.

I think Clarkson should play him much like we play Perry, use him at CHB or as a third tall defender and you can learn a lot of the defensive lessons without it hurting the team. Perry has oddly enough been our best tall defender this year.

Can anyone comment on how well Gilham is progressing at Box Hill?

I didn't see that game but the herald sun has him listed as one of the better players, although it is hard to take a lot of positives out of a huge loss.

 

[CyberKev]

I think it is the predictability which is hurting more than the lack of targets.

Yes, but that predictability comes from a lack of viable alternative targets. I've never been a Dixon fan, but you don't have to like the guy to see that playing both he and Dixon on the same forward line is about as alternative as Channel 9.

For some years I have been bemoaning Hawthorn's lack of crumbing options and I think that Brown can help here, but its difficult to crumb effectively when you don't have the tall marking forwards to work off.

The best Hawthorn's forward line has looked in a long time was back in the preseason clash with Adelaide, when Roughead was near to goal and Franklin was providing a very unsettling presence across half forward. Roughead is needed down back, however, and Franklin has been restricted injury wise.

I don't want to complain too much because we're having a far better injury run than we've had over the past 5 years, but the various problems with Franklin, Barker & Boyle have restricted possibilities down back.

How did the scans go on Franklin's hand injury?

Only just found out about this. I'd be very surprised if there isn't a break of some sort, so he won't be lining-up this week. Boyle will have to be a certainty, with Dawson getting a reprieve (assuming that Clarkson would drop him anyway).

Brisbane will be an interesting game, they can field a very tall forward line and I think Matthews may push Brown to FF in order to expose someone who is not great body on body with him. I think Roughead or Croad would be a good option if the lions get a lot of the ball in the middle.

Assuming Clark plays, I think we could more advisedly risk Dawson on the young fellow. I'd start Roughead on Brown (keeping Croad up my sleeve if he starts to get on top) and let Jacobs run with Bradshaw (if he goes forward). Brisbane used Michael up forward and it'll be interesting if he does so again. Michael is hard at it, but while he does have a strong frame, he has little idea on how to play forward effectively.

If you dominate in the middle then you do not really have to worry about the supply, Lions are vulnerable in the middle. Hawks are quite quick in the guts and run off well from out of defense, I think you can expose them there.

Hmmm. Voss is clearly well past his best, Akermanis has shown appalling discipline recently (will almost certainly not get to play) and the side is badly missing Lappin. I thought the Lions were just hanging in throughout yesterday's game, but I'd expect them to lift. A pace advantage through the middle is one thing, but if we only use this to continually go to Williams, then Brisbane could negate the advantage well.

Yeah, I think it is quite obvious he isn't a natural defender but he can still make a good defender, for his size he is pretty quick, he did do some nice things, it is just very hard to play the full back position because any mistake you make is a guaranteed goal.

I think that, at the very least, Clarkson should judiciously choose opponents. Roughead is also a developing player, but at least he has the body strength to compete with players like Thompson & Rocca. I'd be happy enough for Dawson to get a run at CHB (just as long as its not on a player like Brown or Richo), although if he can't find an extra stone (at least) of muscle then it won't matter much in the long haul, as he will always be a liability on the last line.

I didn't see that game but the herald sun has him listed as one of the better players, although it is hard to take a lot of positives out of a huge loss.

I think he has been doing a solid job this season in a side that has plenty of structural deficiencies. He may be a better option than Dawson, and if we get another long term injury this season (probably more a case of when, than if) I'd like to see him brought up from the rookies and given a run.

 

[Tas]

Yes, but that predictability comes from a lack of viable alternative targets. I've never been a Dixon fan, but you don't have to like the guy to see that playing both he and Dixon on the same forward line is about as alternative as Channel 9.

I think Dixon is much like our Corey Jones, when you get a mismatch happening he can get a few opportunistic goals but otherwise becomes more of a quasi-midfielder.

I think it would be good to see the Hawks start with Roughead at FF, Croad at CHF and use Williams on a flank. You could then go long to Roughy under less than perfect conditions and he will contest in the air. Add Guerra in the pocket and I think he can play that crumbing rover position pretty well.

When you are running forward it still allows you to utilise Williams and he is not really boxed in at FF where it is much easier to zone a player. He can really use his speed to advantage and he is a great kick even from outside 50 so I think that would give the Hawks a structure which would be a lot harder to counter. You can add Buddy to the half forward flank and that would a very young, very dangerous forward line that is structurally conventional.

For some years I have been bemoaning Hawthorn's lack of crumbing options and I think that Brown can help here, but its difficult to crumb effectively when you don't have the tall marking forwards to work off.

I think Guerra can play that role. He is very much underrated. We were originally going to trade for him from Port Adelaide but at the time had an abundance of players of similar build/role. I wish we had grabbed him.

The best Hawthorn's forward line has looked in a long time was back in the preseason clash with Adelaide, when Roughead was near to goal and Franklin was providing a very unsettling presence across half forward. Roughead is needed down back, however, and Franklin has been restricted injury wise.

Yep, I agree that is the way to go. Roughead is very good overhead and he can contest there in a conventional forward structure with Croad at CHF and Franklin as a third tall. That would be an extremely potent forward line.

I don't want to complain too much because we're having a far better injury run than we've had over the past 5 years, but the various problems with Franklin, Barker & Boyle have restricted possibilities down back.

Yeah, that is always a problem. Depth with such a small squad given no matter where you are you are always building for the future aswell as playing for the present makes it hard to have a whole lot of depth players. You just have to make use of the kids as best you can.

Only just found out about this. I'd be very surprised if there isn't a break of some sort, so he won't be lining-up this week. Boyle will have to be a certainty, with Dawson getting a reprieve (assuming that Clarkson would drop him anyway).

It could be just a bad knock, I thought I had broken my wrist once when someone missed the ball and got my hand, it turned out to just be badly bruised and was able to play the following week. Lets hope it is not serious, I think it is important for him to be on the park and playing in the seniors.

Assuming Clark plays, I think we could more advisedly risk Dawson on the young fellow. I'd start Roughead on Brown (keeping Croad up my sleeve if he starts to get on top) and let Jacobs run with Bradshaw (if he goes forward). Brisbane used Michael up forward and it'll be interesting if he does so again. Michael is hard at it, but while he does have a strong frame, he has little idea on how to play forward effectively.

Yeah, I agree. I would start him at FB but if he looks like he is not handling the matchup well he should just get moved onto the second or third tall and allowed to get a bit of a run and a bit of the ball.

Hmmm. Voss is clearly well past his best, Akermanis has shown appalling discipline recently (will almost certainly not get to play) and the side is badly missing Lappin. I thought the Lions were just hanging in throughout yesterday's game, but I'd expect them to lift. A pace advantage through the middle is one thing, but if we only use this to continually go to Williams, then Brisbane could negate the advantage well.

Voss and Akermanis look slow. Black has been very ordinary aswell. They really do not have a lot of players that are getting much of the ball and are waiting for someone else to feed it to them. Mitchell and Hodge should cut them to pieces.

I think Lions are expecting too much of Voss, he should really be playing much like Crawford or Robert Harvey and just play that classy support role, to expect him to carry the midfield at his age and with his battered body shows how much trouble they are in. You guys ran them off their feet last year, like we did and we have very similar midfields, I would expect the same to happen this week.

I think that, at the very least, Clarkson should judiciously choose opponents. Roughead is also a developing player, but at least he has the body strength to compete with players like Thompson & Rocca. I'd be happy enough for Dawson to get a run at CHB (just as long as its not on a player like Brown or Richo), although if he can't find an extra stone (at least) of muscle then it won't matter much in the long haul, as he will always be a liability on the last line.

I think it would be good for him when he is looking at an opponent that is going to be 20+kg heavier than him. It will be hard for him to compete in the one on ones if the ball is being bombed there quickly.

They need to get the jungle juice into him over the pre-season like we did to Perry a couple of years back where he put on 15kg and bulked up over the pre-season when he was a similar weight to Dawson.

I think he has been doing a solid job this season in a side that has plenty of structural deficiencies. He may be a better option than Dawson, and if we get another long term injury this season (probably more a case of when, than if) I'd like to see him brought up from the rookies and given a run.

It is always a good idea to try out different options, I think there is scope to leave Dawson in the side as a second or third tall defender and bring in the other kid, that way you have options to rotate some players if things are not working well without having to draw back some tall forwards.