Remove this Banner Ad

News Lost

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

B

Blessed

Club Legend
Nov 6, 2011
2,352
66
House
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
49ers
LOST- " A much loved Forward Press, last seen by Collingwood Football Club midway thru 2011 season. Has not been seen since.

Collingwood and their fans are desperate for its return.

Anyone finding the lost forward press, please ring Gary Pert at Westpac Centre, with full details of where to pick it up. "

Huge Reward offered for it's return.
 
The Forward Press is only part of the plan.

It creates goal opportunities by trapping the ball in your own forward line and forcing turnovers.

But....what goes with it, what won us the GF in 2010 and what was missing in large chunks of 2011 was the midfield zoning and manic attack on the ball that so shattered Geelong in the 2010 prelim.
 
Buckley explained all this in his interview on SEN. It's impossible to maintain a forward press for 30 weeks with the introduction of the sub rule.

He basically said there are two ways to deny your opponent space 1. Push forward on them when they have the ball in their defensive half 2. Fall back and deny that space in their attacking half. In order to do the first you either have to have a team of Shane Crawford's and Robert Harvey's or be able to provide the players you do have regular rest periods of at least 2 minutes. The sub rule has simply denied players enough rest to be able to play that style for a full season. If you watch any match that involves teams playing a full on press this pre-season you'll find that the last quarter denigrates into a floodfest the bulldogs v blues and dockers v tigers games are prime examples.

The season lasts 30 weeks and I'm willing to bet my account on the fact that if we are injury free and match hardened we won't see the press introduced until about the 20th week. Because otherwise it'll take too much of a toll on the players as it did in 2011. So I ask you this, would you rather see the press in the second week of March or the second week of September?...
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

I watched the dvd 2010 Prelim recently, and the obsession, the desire, the manic attack on the ball, the tackling on the cats that night, was amazing, we stunned them with angry, hard footy, relentless attack, not giving them a breath. It remains one of the finest games the Pies have ever played, certainly one of the best five games i have ever seen by us. WE were the hunter then, we now must go back to being the hunter now, we must hunt down the Cats again, they are the yardstick now, hunt them down and destroy them, aka Predator vs Alien, and we are the Predator.

Agree, we found it again in the Preliminary Final last quarter v Hawks after 3 stuttering quarters.

But that should be our minimum commitment levels.

Since round 22 last year - 93 point loss, small win another small win, flogged in the GF - we beat GWS by what ? loss to Melb & now over 13 goal flogging by the Crows .

We lost our Mojo.
 
Blessed said:
I watched the dvd 2010 Prelim recently, and the obsession, the desire, the manic attack on the ball, the tackling on the cats that night, was amazing, we stunned them with angry, hard footy, relentless attack, not giving them a breath. It remains one of the finest games the Pies have ever played, certainly one of the best five games i have ever seen by us. WE were the hunter then, we now must go back to being the hunter now, we must hunt down the Cats again, they are the yardstick now, hunt them down and destroy them, aka Predator vs Alien, and we are the Predator.

Agree, we found it again in the Preliminary Final last quarter v Hawks after 3 stuttering quarters.

But that should be our minimum commitment levels.

Since round 22 last year - 93 point loss, small win another small win, flogged in the GF - we beat GWS by what ? loss to Melb & now over 13 goal flogging by the Crows .

We lost our Mojo.
Click to expand...


I only logged in to see how the kids went to be honest, and some troll is trying to flam fires on the Collingwood board claiming the sky is falling based on a competition Collingwood are obviously not taking seriously.

Last year we won the NAB, personally I thought this might be to our detriment. All the other sides were up and about against us in the NAB, just like the Crows were considering it was the NAB. It was a long season, and we tired by the end of the year.

Quite happy for Collingwood not to be spending any petrol tickets after two long hard fought seasons in 2010 and 2011 at this stage. I'd expect that we don't start hitting our straps until June this year.
 
Blessed said:
I watched the dvd 2010 Prelim recently, and the obsession, the desire, the manic attack on the ball, the tackling on the cats that night, was amazing, we stunned them with angry, hard footy, relentless attack, not giving them a breath. It remains one of the finest games the Pies have ever played, certainly one of the best five games i have ever seen by us. WE were the hunter then, we now must go back to being the hunter now, we must hunt down the Cats again, they are the yardstick now, hunt them down and destroy them, aka Predator vs Alien, and we are the Predator.

Agree, we found it again in the Preliminary Final last quarter v Hawks after 3 stuttering quarters.

But that should be our minimum commitment levels.

Since round 22 last year - 93 point loss, small win another small win, flogged in the GF - we beat GWS by what ? loss to Melb & now over 13 goal flogging by the Crows .

We lost our Mojo.
Click to expand...

Note: Neither of these games mention NOB Cup.
 
We will see come the first game of the season if you think being underdone is a pish take.

The NAB Cup is irrelevant. I don't care about winning the NAB Cup. But building a winning culture does matter to me and when you play like you don't give a flying **** then the footy gods will surely reward you with abject failure.

Midfield pressure is the thing that was lacking last night - we seemed to be beaten in the clearances but Adelaide's runners had all the space in the world to run and kick the ball in long - often over the heads of our defenders who had all pressed up.

Elliott showed something. Very pacy.
Clarke was much better.
Fasolo looks like a Rd 1 starter.
Young. No left foot. Looks good. Reminds me of Heater. Not as fast.
Ceglar. What is the go with his goal kicking?
Keefe better. But still looks way off.
Giddy, I was disappointed in. Didn't get enough of the harder pill, his possessions seem to come from sweeping. Not true mid style possessions.

Dawes - I am confused why he gone so far backwards?????

In Round 1, we come up against a very good side, one that went within a kick of playing off. Even if we lose that, its not the end of the world.

Every player you hear being interviewed these days says that the seasons are getting longer & harder. I'm quite happy for us to pace ourselves.

Come back to me by Round 5 and tell me what you think. If we're 5 - 0 or even 4-1 you're a better judge than me. But if the results are reversed I'll demand a full apology.

We are flirting with form again. Not like last year where we lairised and got bitten on the bum, but by playing so badly without any coherent game plan, we are doing worse than standing still, we are going backwards. Even as a training drill we learnt nothing last night, except that most of our kids aren't ready for senior footy yet (if ever).

We don't have the depth everyone of us raved about in 2010. Come back in two or three years. I'm tipping we might be back on track for a flag by 2013, but realistically (with this squad) it might be 2014 (as long as we can keep Swanny playing by then and keep the wolves from pinching Pendlebury and Cloke). If we lost them we might not see another flag for 20 years.

Sound familiar? Welcome to the early 90s all over again. It's Groundhog Day. Rolling Eyes Confused
 
Good idea for a thread, because none of this has been discussed at length elsewhere.

The press has been worked out to a degree, we have to keep innovating. Expecting us to implement a carbon copy of a 2010 game plan is naive IMO.
 
The Royal Sampler said:
Good idea for a thread, because none of this has been discussed at length elsewhere.

The press has been worked out to a degree, we have to keep innovating. Expecting us to implement a carbon copy of a 2010 game plan is naive IMO.
Click to expand...

The issue is the intensity.

The press with the intensity is what worked.

After the ball like a seagull at a chip.
 
The flood worked in 2000

The huddle worked in the 90's

Hell even the drop kick worked in the 60's

If people continue to look to the past as a game plan for a Collingwood team of today then we will get flogged by weak teams like GWS.

A refusal to move forward means that we would be going backwards.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Hey BLESSED...FOUND!!!!!!!!

You're so right the 2010 press was intense and won us a flag.

The other sides FOUND our press. It's not lost just discovered by other sides.

Don't look back at the past.

What I am looking for from Buckley and Eade is the next tactic that gives us an advantage.

Why would they show their hand at the beginning of the season? Clearly we are practicing switching play quickly for a reason. We are running through the corridor more. We are experimenting with our kickouts without Leon. We are playing on and moving quickly.

The best 22 are not out on the park yet. There are three weeks to go. We are managing the players gametime. WE ARE NOT trying to win or lose games.

The press will be part of our game plan at some stage you would imagine but you need the players to do it. We showed last year that with injuries it is difficult to maintain.
 
larrikan said:
Hey BLESSED...FOUND!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Not found.

It is not only this season, it is the back half of last season too. Where we lost our Mojo.

Frankly we have been playing ordinary for 10 games in a row now.

The press is about intensity.

It is the intensity we have lost.

And the ball use.

For me, I guess it comes down to the fact, I am so used to the Malthouse way with the NAB cup that winning form is good form... even leading into R1. Seeing a new coaching panel do something a bit different is a bit of a shock to the system.

Understandable I think. I don't use the NAB Cup as an excuse as to why we were tired by R24 last year, but it's just different and different can take time to get used to.
 
Last year I think the team was trying new things, then unfortunately fell away and wasn't physically able to implement "the press" to full effect. There were too many players injured or underdone, and players looked drained because of it. Now the season is over the club needs to keep developing it's game plan.

It'd be an error to think what the team did in 2010 would still work in 2012. It's was what caused Hawthorn a big losing streak at the start of 2010 because they reverted to an old game plan that they thought would still work (after not being able to play it the year before because of injuries). They were found out and had to change things up again.

In terms of the NAB Cup, I'm not sure "the press" can work with so many 1st & 2nd year players. So I'm guessing the team will still play it to a degree with a full squad and not throw it away.

Like Buckley has said, he's not going to radically change a working game plan, just make small changes here and there. Removing "the press" would be a huge change. It will return, just not to what we're used to.
 
Blessed said:
We will see come the first game of the season if you think being underdone is a pish take.

The NAB Cup is irrelevant. I don't care about winning the NAB Cup. But building a winning culture does matter to me and when you play like you don't give a flying **** then the footy gods will surely reward you with abject failure.

Midfield pressure is the thing that was lacking last night - we seemed to be beaten in the clearances but Adelaide's runners had all the space in the world to run and kick the ball in long - often over the heads of our defenders who had all pressed up.

Elliott showed something. Very pacy.
Clarke was much better.
Fasolo looks like a Rd 1 starter.
Young. No left foot. Looks good. Reminds me of Heater. Not as fast.
Ceglar. What is the go with his goal kicking?
Keefe better. But still looks way off.
Giddy, I was disappointed in. Didn't get enough of the harder pill, his possessions seem to come from sweeping. Not true mid style possessions.

Dawes - I am confused why he gone so far backwards?????

In Round 1, we come up against a very good side, one that went within a kick of playing off. Even if we lose that, its not the end of the world.

Every player you hear being interviewed these days says that the seasons are getting longer & harder. I'm quite happy for us to pace ourselves.

Come back to me by Round 5 and tell me what you think. If we're 5 - 0 or even 4-1 you're a better judge than me. But if the results are reversed I'll demand a full apology.

We are flirting with form again. Not like last year where we lairised and got bitten on the bum, but by playing so badly without any coherent game plan, we are doing worse than standing still, we are going backwards. Even as a training drill we learnt nothing last night, except that most of our kids aren't ready for senior footy yet (if ever).

We don't have the depth everyone of us raved about in 2010. Come back in two or three years. I'm tipping we might be back on track for a flag by 2013, but realistically (with this squad) it might be 2014 (as long as we can keep Swanny playing by then and keep the wolves from pinching Pendlebury and Cloke). If we lost them we might not see another flag for 20 years.

Sound familiar? Welcome to the early 90s all over again. It's Groundhog Day. Rolling Eyes Confused
Click to expand...

I have been reading a few of your posts and I can tell how much you love Collingwood, but you know what you're doing right?
It's quite simple really, you love to be right and you love Collingwood. The way you're setting youself up, you can't lose.
 
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=65939&start=60

melliot



Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:33 am
Post subject:
"Elliott showed something. Very pacy.
Clarke was much better.
Fasolo looks like a Rd 1 starter.
Young. No left foot. Looks good. Reminds me of Heater. Not as fast.
Ceglar. What is the go with his goal kicking?
Keefe better. But still looks way off.
Giddy, I was disappointed in. Didn't get enough of the harder pill, his possessions seem to come from sweeping. Not true mid style possessions.

Thought we were better than last week. At least the first 3 Qs. We were competitive with half a side.

End margins flattered the crows. Was 6 goal defeat in general play.

Didn't like how the ball kept going over the back on the crows entries."

I can copy and paste someone else's comments too.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

bucksisbest said:
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=65939&start=60

melliot



Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:33 am
Post subject:
"Elliott showed something. Very pacy.
Clarke was much better.
Fasolo looks like a Rd 1 starter.
Young. No left foot. Looks good. Reminds me of Heater. Not as fast.
Ceglar. What is the go with his goal kicking?
Keefe better. But still looks way off.
Giddy, I was disappointed in. Didn't get enough of the harder pill, his possessions seem to come from sweeping. Not true mid style possessions.

Thought we were better than last week. At least the first 3 Qs. We were competitive with half a side.

End margins flattered the crows. Was 6 goal defeat in general play.

Didn't like how the ball kept going over the back on the crows entries."

I can copy and paste someone else's comments too.
Click to expand...

I must admit when I first read that post it seemed too positive to be his own work.

Keep up the good work detective :thumbsu:
 
Sorry, I get at least a C +.

What to do to defeat the zone:


  1. Run & Carry: Most zones are 50m in depth and you can run 15m without bouncing which makes the zone run away from you and displaces them.
  2. Long kicks: If you can kick the ball 50m+ it allows you to break the zone.
  3. Hit Targets: It is even better if you can kick the ball 50m+ and hit targets.
  4. No short kicks: Short kicks just makes the zone even more effective as more players get in the 50m area.
  5. One on One: You have to man up, you cannot let a player fill in that gap and be unaccountable.

It is not rocket science.


But again, it really comes down to who wants it more.


Intensity.




Like I first said.


Injuries and Clarko's Cluster aside, the other day one of the leading papers published a statistical analysis of Hawthorn in 2008 compared against the 2010 Hawthorn side.

The 'unsociable Hawks' led the way in 2008 in every department from tackling through to effective disposals and long kicks into the forward 50. In 2010 they were near the bottom on all accounts.

I agree that injuries have played a big part, however injuries have no bearing whatsoever on effort.

I think terms like "premiership clock or window" are overrated. Injuries, the AFL, the lottery of the draft, the AFL, rule changes, lopsides draws and the AFL can all put the kybosch on the notion that "well, we've bottom dwelled for x years, now let's reap the rewards .

"ill prepared us"? not at all - more preparing us for a better tilt at sustained success.

Lyon came to St Kilda and changed their game style to make them more accountable and to control tempo. Now Watters wants to attack but how far will he go away from Lyons game plan.

Geelong took more than 1 year under bomber for things to come together, and in fact missed the finals after being pipped in a prelim. Look at the efforts of Carlton, and Freo and the adoption of game plans implemented 2-3 years ago. Lyon goes full circle to reinvent Freo or just do Harvey's defensive game plan better.


If a week is a long time in football, a year is a lifetime.

Not trying in the preseason might sound great in the boardroom but it just doesn't cut it around the coffee pot on Monday morning when you're trying to justify a 13 goal loss to last years bottom 4 team.

the zone/cluster can be an effective defensive strategy, but any defence will be vulnerable with effective clearances from the centre square.
 
Blessed said:
Sorry, I get at least a C +.

What to do to defeat the zone:


  1. Run & Carry: Most zones are 50m in depth and you can run 15m without bouncing which makes the zone run away from you and displaces them.
  2. Long kicks: If you can kick the ball 50m+ it allows you to break the zone.
  3. Hit Targets: It is even better if you can kick the ball 50m+ and hit targets.
  4. No short kicks: Short kicks just makes the zone even more effective as more players get in the 50m area.
  5. One on One: You have to man up, you cannot let a player fill in that gap and be unaccountable.

It is not rocket science.


But again, it really comes down to who wants it more.


Intensity.




Like I first said.


Injuries and Clarko's Cluster aside, the other day one of the leading papers published a statistical analysis of Hawthorn in 2008 compared against the 2010 Hawthorn side.

The 'unsociable Hawks' led the way in 2008 in every department from tackling through to effective disposals and long kicks into the forward 50. In 2010 they were near the bottom on all accounts.

I agree that injuries have played a big part, however injuries have no bearing whatsoever on effort.

I think terms like "premiership clock or window" are overrated. Injuries, the AFL, the lottery of the draft, the AFL, rule changes, lopsides draws and the AFL can all put the kybosch on the notion that "well, we've bottom dwelled for x years, now let's reap the rewards .

"ill prepared us"? not at all - more preparing us for a better tilt at sustained success.

Lyon came to St Kilda and changed their game style to make them more accountable and to control tempo. Now Watters wants to attack but how far will he go away from Lyons game plan.

Geelong took more than 1 year under bomber for things to come together, and in fact missed the finals after being pipped in a prelim. Look at the efforts of Carlton, and Freo and the adoption of game plans implemented 2-3 years ago. Lyon goes full circle to reinvent Freo or just do Harvey's defensive game plan better.


If a week is a long time in football, a year is a lifetime.

Not trying in the preseason might sound great in the boardroom but it just doesn't cut it around the coffee pot on Monday morning when you're trying to justify a 13 goal loss to last years bottom 4 team.

the zone/cluster can be an effective defensive strategy, but any defence will be vulnerable with effective clearances from the centre square.
Click to expand...

Blessed,

Try meditation, or a nice number. You're too intense.
 
Any chance of addressing bucksisbest's post?

At least credit melliot for his work.
 
You right on one thing Blessed, we went one-on-one against Hawthorn in last years PF and it turned the game.

That's why they struggle with Geelong. Hawthorn struggle against good contested footy teams. Just a little to flaky.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

News Lost

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top