Expansion Lowest finals crowd since WW1...

[ydraw]

Well, when it rapes the rest of the competition for the best part of the decade, you better bet we care. And for what? Its not like GWS were needed or wanted at all, the AFL competition was doing just fine and dandy thanks. Its only for a couple of power hungry corporate dogs in the AFL watch house that GWS was even conceived.

The AFL is doing fine and dandy, but the sport of Aussie Rules is not, it is losing market share to other sports every year, especially at grass roots level. The entire point of GWS is to make AFL the #1 football code Australia-wide. The AFL also have plans to expand the game outside of Australia in the longer term for the same reasons.

It might take 30 years, but it's worth it in the long term if it ensures the survival of the game.

 

[mr bagcroft]

AFL is not doing just fine and dandy, it is losing market share to other sports every year. The entire point of GWS is to make AFL the #1 football code Australia-wide. It might take 30 years, but it's worth it in the long term if it ensures the survival of the game.

Thats just the BS they are spoon feeding us. Game would survive just fine. Its the biggest damn game in the country by a mile. If others catch up, so what? Its never going to fall over because ti dosent have complete market domination. Its laughable. Trust me, the game as fine as it was. Better than fine. They throw the line out, and we swallow.

 

[RupieDupie]

Well, when it rapes the rest of the competition for the best part of the decade, you better bet we care. And for what? Its not like GWS were needed or wanted at all, the AFL competition was doing just fine and dandy thanks. Its only for a couple of power hungry corporate dogs in the AFL watch house that GWS was even conceived.

I wouldn't state it "rapes" the competition (I do not see too many people in here - in a forum dedicated to the GWS - complaining about the Gold Coast), and most likely no one would have minded the extra one or two byes they got with the GWS a few years ago. But now! Just think of what these players went through to get where they are (that doesn't seem to have happened up at the Gold Coast), they were hand picked from the harvest, some from district footy leagues, put into a 3000 degree furnace and smacked into shape by a hammer and anvil, then melded together as a group by two former premiership coaches (the only tit the Giants got to see during their first forays into adulthood were former PA coach Mark Williams nipples freezing during a Canberra winter), blooded on the AFL field, seasoned with salt and pain on the AFL field, and now they are big hungry mutherfcuking monsters who are about to see their second prelim in two years. IMO, from this Cocoon of Pain and Love, the GWS Giants have built some of the greatest AFL footballers the world has ever seen, and some of these have already spread throughout the AFL, for example, you guys got Jack Steele, and look what will happen to Carlton and Collingwood in a few years time with their pick-ups.

But I do agree that there was a bit of "money-thinking" behind the decision. Problem is, IMO, if GWS gets to get the pick of the harvest from the district football leagues they should also play a bit more of their football out there. Then IMO they would also make a bit more "sense" as an AFL club.

 

[Smartest Brain]

The AFL is doing fine and dandy, but the sport of Aussie Rules is not, it is losing market share to other sports every year, especially at grass roots level. The entire point of GWS is to make AFL the #1 football code Australia-wide. The AFL also have plans to expand the game outside of Australia in the longer term for the same reasons.

It might take 30 years, but it's worth it in the long term if it ensures the survival of the game.

They need to stop decreasing the violence in the game and actually increase it back to the 90s level at least. They think making it softer widens its appeal when it doesn't. Skills may be better now than in the 90s but seeing not every touchy free kick paid, jumper punches, big hits, makes it more watchable as an overall product I think.

MMA is the fastest growing sport and is the most violent sport. It will soak up all the people leaving traditional sports because they are boring in comparison.

And while rugby objectively is a less entertaining product it has one advantage over afl, it's more violent. So a lot of Sydney people think afl is softer, which it is, so to win in that market you need to make it more violent regardless.

 

[RupieDupie]

I wouldn't state it "rapes" the competition (I do not see too many people in here - in a forum dedicated to the GWS - complaining about the Gold Coast), and most likely no one would have minded the extra one or two byes they got with the GWS a few years ago. But now! Just think of what these players went through to get where they are (that doesn't seem to have happened up at the Gold Coast), they were hand picked from the harvest, some from district footy leagues, put into a 3000 degree furnace and smacked into shape by a hammer and anvil, then melded together as a group by two former premiership coaches (the only tit the Giants got to see during their first forays into adulthood were former PA coach Mark Williams nipples freezing during a Canberra winter), blooded on the AFL field, seasoned with salt and pain on the AFL field, and now they are big hungry mutherfcuking monsters who are about to see their second prelim in two years. IMO, from this Cocoon of Pain and Love, the GWS Giants have built some of the greatest AFL footballers the world has ever seen, and some of these have already spread throughout the AFL, for example, you guys got Jack Steele, and look what will happen to Carlton and Collingwood in a few years time with their pick-ups.

But I do agree that there was a bit of "money-thinking" behind the decision. Problem is, IMO, if GWS gets to get the pick of the harvest from the district football leagues they should also play a bit more of their football out there. Then IMO they would also make a bit more "sense" as an AFL club.

Just in case anyone is interested, I have it on good authority that the Anvil was named "The Anvil of Despair" and the Hammer was named "The Hammer of Fortitude"

 

[MVille Swan]

I think the alarm bells starting ringing fairly loudly in VFL house in 1985 when average VFL crowds had slumped
to around 20% below where they were in the early 60s, and the league itself was essentially bankrupt. The Swans
had moved to Sydney but what was really needed was more teams in more states. In 1981, the year before
the Swans came to Sydney, 3.3 million people attended VFL home-and-away games in Victoria and 54,000 people
went to two games at the SCG. This year 4.085 million people attended AFL home-and-away games in Victoria,
and 2.65 million went to home-and-away games in the other states. So three quarters of the growth in attendance
has come from outside of Victoria. When you take into account the increase in population in Melbourne between
1981 and now attendance at games in Victoria has fallen a lot in real terms.
A substantial part of the money that has come into the game in recent years has come from TV rights and the
advertisers that ultimately fund this will only pony up this sort of money if it's a national comp. When car companies
or beer companies advertise their products it's with a view to sell them to people in every state, not just one.
A lot of people (players, coaches, footy admin people, media people) have benefitted substantially from all this
extra money coming into the game. I'm not sure how they would handle the inevitable big pay cut that would
come if the AFL was to step back from it's expansion plans.

 

[Proper Gander]

I think the alarm bells starting ringing fairly loudly in VFL house in 1985 when average VFL crowds had slumped
to around 20% below where they were in the early 60s, and the league itself was essentially bankrupt. The Swans
had moved to Sydney but what was really needed was more teams in more states. In 1981, the year before
the Swans came to Sydney, 3.3 million people attended VFL home-and-away games in Victoria and 54,000 people
went to two games at the SCG. This year 4.085 million people attended AFL home-and-away games in Victoria,
and 2.65 million went to home-and-away games in the other states. So three quarters of the growth in attendance
has come from outside of Victoria. When you take into account the increase in population in Melbourne between
1981 and now attendance at games in Victoria has fallen a lot in real terms.
A substantial part of the money that has come into the game in recent years has come from TV rights and the
advertisers that ultimately fund this will only pony up this sort of money if it's a national comp. When car companies
or beer companies advertise their products it's with a view to sell them to people in every state, not just one.
A lot of people (players, coaches, footy admin people, media people) have benefitted substantially from all this
extra money coming into the game. I'm not sure how they would handle the inevitable big pay cut that would
come if the AFL was to step back from it's expansion plans.

Something about your formatting bothers me. Can't quite put my finger on what it is though.

 

[Tom_Thumb]

The same reason used to make the Cats play at the MCG should of been used with this game..more bums on seats at Subi.

 

[Bulldog1954]

The same reason used to make the Cats play at the MCG should of been used with this game..more bums on seats at Subi.

Does that mean if the Eagles were playing Collingwood in a final that the game should be played at the MCG, even if the Eagles were higher on the ladder? More bums on seats at the MCG.

 

[Bokonon_]

The same reason used to make the Cats play at the MCG should of been used with this game..more bums on seats at Subi.

Now you know that was never going to happen.

 

[Rotayjay]

Aussie rules is simply too exciting to be superseded by soccer, AKA 'one goal is enough'.

 

[Tom_Thumb]

Does that mean if the Eagles were playing Collingwood in a final that the game should be played at the MCG, even if the Eagles were higher on the ladder? More bums on seats at the MCG.

Don't count that out from ever happening, this dirty money grabbing league would do anything for cash. It's happened to us before where we played a lower finishing team over there in a final, can't remember who it was now though.

I was being sarcastic a little there in that post because I think no team should ever have to play a team at their home ground if they finished above them on the ladder. That said I also believe there is no valid reason why we only get one AFL game a weekend over here, its easy to setup us having double headers over a weekend here at the new stadium. We've had to put up with minimal service from the AFL for 30 years now and if its to be taken serious as a competition then evening the draw out is a necessity.

 

[WDWSF]

Aussie rules is simply too exciting to be superseded by soccer, AKA 'one goal is enough'.

It was though.

More people went to see the Matildas.

So the old '0-0 boring' comment is invalid.

 

[Garry Barry]

It was though.

More people went to see the Matildas.

So the old '0-0 boring' comment is invalid.

But wasn't the Matilda's free entry?

It's like saying more people went to Bondi beach.

 

[WDWSF]

I feel sorry for you if you think the Matildas was a free entry match.

 

[Garry Barry]

I feel sorry for you if you think the Matildas was a free entry match.

Rather than feel sorry, tell me the breakdown of ticket prices including freebies to clubs?

Don't worry I found it. $15 adult. $7.50 each for a family ticket. Free if club member.

 

[MVille Swan]

Rather than feel sorry, tell me the breakdown of ticket prices including freebies to clubs?

Don't worry I found it. $15 adult. $7.50 each for a family ticket. Free if club member.

So it's safe to say the Matildas mightn't have sold quite as many tickets if the pricing had been the same as the AFL
semi final pricing ($35 to $92 plus booking fee regardless of whether you were a GWS or WC member or not).
I went down to Melbourne last Friday for the Swans-Cats game (yes, as a Swans supporter, that turned out to be a great
idea) and the guy that drove me from the airport to the hotel told me how he and his wife had been Bulldogs members for over
twenty years and they gave up going to the footy after the 2015 season as they couldn't afford it any longer, and
he couldn't get a ticket to the GF last year. This is just a one-off story, but it illustrates that the on going cost of going to
the footy is too much for some people. It doesn't mean they are not passionate fans (20+ years of continuous membership
must count for something), it just means they can't afford to go anymore.

 

[Leeda]

Hmm you can't always bewilder them and they will surely come...

 

[Rotayjay]

I see this thread had become a bit of a Cluedo 'what was the crowd split in the 2016 Spotless prelim?' game. Has anyone got a panoramic photo or video of that evening showing each bay? That would clear things up.

 

[NoobPie]

I feel sorry for you if you think the Matildas was a free entry match.

You have a rather narrow posting history, I note

 

[Randall Stevens]

I think the alarm bells starting ringing fairly loudly in VFL house in 1985 when average VFL crowds had slumped
to around 20% below where they were in the early 60s, and the league itself was essentially bankrupt. The Swans
had moved to Sydney but what was really needed was more teams in more states. In 1981, the year before
the Swans came to Sydney, 3.3 million people attended VFL home-and-away games in Victoria and 54,000 people
went to two games at the SCG. This year 4.085 million people attended AFL home-and-away games in Victoria,
and 2.65 million went to home-and-away games in the other states. So three quarters of the growth in attendance
has come from outside of Victoria. When you take into account the increase in population in Melbourne between
1981 and now attendance at games in Victoria has fallen a lot in real terms.
A substantial part of the money that has come into the game in recent years has come from TV rights and the
advertisers that ultimately fund this will only pony up this sort of money if it's a national comp. When car companies
or beer companies advertise their products it's with a view to sell them to people in every state, not just one.
A lot of people (players, coaches, footy admin people, media people) have benefitted substantially from all this
extra money coming into the game. I'm not sure how they would handle the inevitable big pay cut that would
come if the AFL was to step back from it's expansion plans.

I agree with you completely about the national comp being essential to TV rights and the money in the game (does anybody realistically not?), and you are right about the financial position of the game in the mid 80's - that is why the national comp started.

However, I think some more perspective and analysis is needed on your crowd stats.

In 1981 there were 132 home and away games, 129 of which were played in Victoria (there was a game at the Gabba in addition to the two at the SCG you referred to.
In 2017 there were 198 h&a games, of which 100 were played in Victoria.
That means that the percentage of matches played outside Victoria went from 2% in 1981 to 49% in 2017. On that basis, obviously matches played outside Victoria will produce a big share of the growth in overall attendance.

The average attendance at h&a games in Victoria in 1981 was 25,584. In 2017 the Victorian average was 40,851, an increase of 60%. Over the same period, based on census figures the population of Melbourne increased by 68%.
Taking into account the vast range of factors which have impacted changes in attendance figures over 36 years, I think it is far too simplistic to base any comparison only on raw population growth.

The average attendance at h&a games outside Victoria in 2017 was 27,030. Clearly this is far less than the Victorian average for 2017, and only 1,500 more than the average Victorian attendance in 1981.

I am not attempting to in any way belittle the contribution which the non-Victorian clubs make to the comp.

Instead, I am pointing out that the Victorian clubs collectively still more than pull their weight in contributing to the health of the game and the revenue it generates.

 

[ferrisb]

In 2025 I think it is reasonable to expect GWS to be averaging about 18,000 over the course of a season, and that number is higher than pretty much any Sydney based NRL club.

I always thought the Greater Western part of the equation would be the biggest problem.

But clearly it's the Sydney part that just sucks...

 

[MISFITS]

It's a Sydney thing.
Sydney has never been a big crowd puller.
The Sydney Roosters NRL team play a Preliminary final this week having averaged just 12 thousand fans over the season.

 

[Smartest Brain]

Aussie rules is simply too exciting to be superseded by soccer, AKA 'one goal is enough'.

Like soccer is the only threat for the afl? Soccer is seen as weak from afl, NFL, nrl and NHL circles. It will be hard for soccer to get any growth in these markets because it is seen as soft. Afl *IS* softer than rugby, there is a reason we call it thugby after all. It's interesting the afl thinks it can win over rugby heartlands with a softer product. It won't work, you won't convert rugby supporters to afl with the current mandate, you can only hope to convert others who don't support either sport.

You need to make afl harder than rugby to win over those people who enjoy rugby.

 

[Rotayjay]

Like soccer is the only threat for the afl? Soccer is seen as weak from afl, NFL, nrl and NHL circles. It will be hard for soccer to get any growth in these markets because it is seen as soft. Afl *IS* softer than rugby, there is a reason we call it thugby after all. It's interesting the afl thinks it can win over rugby heartlands with a softer product. It won't work, you won't convert rugby supporters to afl with the current mandate, you can only hope to convert others who don't support either sport.

You need to make afl harder than rugby to win over those people who enjoy rugby.

We shouldn't hold our breath then! Aussie rules is getting softer. Not that it's a soft sport overall, but it'll never overtake bum-sniffing and galoot collisions (AKA league) in raw hardness.