Analysis Making the Top 4 and building to a flag. 4TH is IRRELEVANT, MAKE IT TOP 3

[RussellEbertHandball]

The premiers played 2 genuine key tall forwards (plus Dusty Martin played most of the game as a traditional full forward), plus 2 ruckmen, both of whom spent time up forward.

It was an effective structure. We should try something similar

And it meant an almost doubling of their GF winning margin compared to when they played 1 ruckman and 1 KPF in 2017.

 

[Janus]

The premiers played 2 genuine key tall forwards (plus Dusty Martin played most of the game as a traditional full forward), plus 2 ruckmen, both of whom spent time up forward.

It was an effective structure. We should try something similar

Are you seriously comparing Lynch and Riewoldt to our forwards?

The premiers played 2 elite key tall forwards who both understand the need to put as much pressure as possible in the forward line - Lynch averaged 8.7 pressure acts per game, Riewoldt averaged 11.4 pressure acts per game.

By comparison, Dougal Howard averaged 7.7 pressure acts per game, Charlie Dixon had 11.1 pressure acts per game, Todd Marshall had 11.8 pressure acts per game and Ryder had 11.7 pressure acts per game. No complaints there.

However, after Riewoldt and Lynch put on the pressure, they piled on 87 goals in 25 games. Lynch had 64 goals by himself.

Ryder, Dixon, Westhoff, Marshall and Howard posted 60 goals between them in 22 games. None of them even posted the 24 goals that Riewoldt kicked.

That's why the premiers can play 2 genuine key tall forwards.

This is the main issue with our forward line. Ryder and Howard, when they were asked to play there, to sacrifice for the team, were just lukewarm about it. And you know what happens to lukewarm water? "So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

And by the way - Soldo and Nankervis were hardly ever on the ground at the same time in the grand final - 42% TOG to 58% TOG.

P.S When you find me a Dustin Martin in our team, let me know.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Of course. But that’s esoteric knowledge only known by a few. I’m talking about how long it takes on the path they are on now.

I'll give you a hint. On the path they're on now, we never, ever achieve a premiership winning mindset.

You fully acknowledge we need a mindset change, you just pick on the symptoms instead of the disease.

Psychological impact only happens when you allow it. That’s the whole point of philosophy and mindfulness.

The great philosopher Fos Williams knew a thing or two about the premiership mindset, and wrote the following:

"Any club worth its salt will clean out its no-hopers from the doorman, to the head trainer, to the captain.

Keeping no-hopers in these positions, or any other position, is the mark of the non-successful club.

You've got to weed out people who breed an atmosphere of non-professionalism.

They're there for the bloody joke, for the social life, for the prestige. They're not there to win!!"

Championships aren't about playing lists, they're about organisations.

Trying to argue that the players should develop a winning culture while the club leadership and promotes a losing, unaccountable mindset, is silly. Successful clubs aren't successful in spite of their leadership, they're successful because of their leadership.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Their goals might have something to do with the sides game plan, their skill set and their toughness both mental and physical.

We have none of that, especially a game plan.

 

[edgie]

Lol this thread was made more than a decade ago and we still haven't managed it. Surely that's only us, Carlton, and Essendon in that group?

Illustrious company. Carlton have still probably managed as many finals wins in that time as us too.

 

[Windy Cindy]

Are you seriously comparing Lynch and Riewoldt to our forwards?

The premiers played 2 elite key tall forwards who both understand the need to put as much pressure as possible in the forward line - Lynch averaged 8.7 pressure acts per game, Riewoldt averaged 11.4 pressure acts per game.

By comparison, Dougal Howard averaged 7.7 pressure acts per game, Charlie Dixon had 11.1 pressure acts per game, Todd Marshall had 11.8 pressure acts per game and Ryder had 11.7 pressure acts per game. No complaints there.

However, after Riewoldt and Lynch put on the pressure, they piled on 87 goals in 25 games. Lynch had 64 goals by himself.

Ryder, Dixon, Westhoff, Marshall and Howard posted 60 goals between them in 22 games. None of them even posted the 24 goals that Riewoldt kicked.

That's why the premiers can play 2 genuine key tall forwards.

This is the main issue with our forward line. Ryder and Howard, when they were asked to play there, to sacrifice for the team, were just lukewarm about it. And you know what happens to lukewarm water? "So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

And by the way - Soldo and Nankervis were hardly ever on the ground at the same time in the grand final - 42% TOG to 58% TOG.

P.S When you find me a Dustin Martin in our team, let me know.

How many times were Riewoldt and Lynch hit on the chest from passes?

How many times do our passes go over our forwards heads

How many times do we burst from the centre and kick to the boundary line. Or burst from the centre and pass to our forwards and it misses the target by 15m and ends out of bounds

Whomever has come up with that game plan should be banned from our club forever.

 

[tribey]

P.S When you find me a Dustin Martin in our team, let me know.

If we’d drafted him he’d have washed up and you’d have blamed him.

 

[tribey]

I mean, L-O-L.

We jettisoned Chad Wingard because he liked video games and his footy wasn’t a priority in his life, and we’ve reduced SPP’s worth to that of packet custard because he’s had a couple of off-field incidents and he’s turned out to be exactly what we thought he was when he was drafted: a bull with scattergun disposal.

Imagine how’d we go getting the best out of Dustin Martin with all he’s had on his plate.

It’s not Ken and the way we go about it, no Siree.

 

[Janus]

I'll give you a hint. On the path they're on now, we never, ever achieve a premiership winning mindset.

You fully acknowledge we need a mindset change, you just pick on the symptoms instead of the disease.

No, I pick on the pathogen, which is the cause of the disease. You could have the best leaders in football working for the club, and it wouldn't make a difference if the people who take the field don't believe in themselves internally. It's not about assigning blame, it's about doing what we can to fix it. That's the mindset that needs to change.

My philosophy in life is this - if someone has done it, barring things you can't control like genetics or luck, you can do it too. So there is nothing stopping Port from winning a flag next year except themselves.

The great philosopher Fos Williams knew a thing or two about the premiership mindset, and wrote the following:

"Any club worth its salt will clean out its no-hopers from the doorman, to the head trainer, to the captain.

Keeping no-hopers in these positions, or any other position, is the mark of the non-successful club.

You've got to weed out people who breed an atmosphere of non-professionalism.

They're there for the bloody joke, for the social life, for the prestige. They're not there to win!!"

Championships aren't about playing lists, they're about organisations.

Trying to argue that the players should develop a winning culture while the club leadership and promotes a losing, unaccountable mindset, is silly. Successful clubs aren't successful in spite of their leadership, they're successful because of their leadership.

So what makes a good leader? Accountability is just being able to put your hand up and say you made a mistake. If you're thinking along the line of 'when you make a mistake, we're going to crucify you for it', then that's not even close to leadership. The idea is to promote an environment where everyone is in it together...that's what makes a good leader.

If the environment we are fostering was s**t, guys like Houston and Byrne-Jones - players who were picked late in the draft - wouldn't be as good as they are now.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I like reading Buckenara's analysis but you have to temper it because he is positive about most teams. The trade period closed 16 Oct at 8pm EST. Here are Bucky's comments and date and time stamp on the articles. Here are the Crystal Ball sections.

He hasn't done Brisbane, GWS, North and Richmond yet


Port 19/10 11am
CRYSTAL BALL
The list is good enough to be a finals contender and if the hunger and desire is strong enough then this group would be capable of challenging for a top-four position next year. The problem is, Port Adelaide has been so inconsistent for so long. How can we still be questioning a group’s hunger to succeed?

Top 4 certainties despite the fact no Richmond, GWS and Brisbane analysis so far

WCE 10/10 3pm - Kelly trade had been completed
CRYSTAL BALL
West Coast will be one of the teams to beat in 2020. The addition of Kelly means this club is so well set up for a tilt at the premiership over the next 2-3 years at a minimum that I can see them creating a dynasty. The list has stars across all lines and has depth too, so even if they have some bad luck with injuries I’m confident the Eagles will be able to cover them. The Eagles are going to be very hard to beat for the foreseeable future.

Geelong 12/10 11am - Kelly had happened, expected Stevens but Jenkins in, Smith out wasn't discussed
CRYSTAL BALL
The Cats should be a contender again in 2020 and challenge for top four but the query is over the ageing nature of the list and whether they can stand up for a full season, plus the lack of pace through the midfield. It’s one thing to play finals but it’s another thing to genuinely challenge for and win a premiership. Can the Cats go all the way in 2020? I’m not convinced, especially if they go into another season without a genuine No.1 ruckman. How quickly can the 21 and under players take the next step? 2020 could be a building season with an eye to 2021.

Collingwood 16/10 12.30pm - mentions Cameron in, but not Aish out. Starts off with
I was wrong about Collingwood. .....
CRYSTAL BALL
Collingwood has enough quality to again be top four and challenging for the premiership but I’m worried about how much the injury toll of the last two seasons has taken on the players. While we know they have great depth, players like Grundy, Pendlebury, Crisp, Sidebottom, Treloar, Mihocek, Roughead and Howe have been asked to shoulder a lot of the load and have probably played through various injuries. Injury tolls like the ones Collingwood have endured over the last two years do have the capacity to drain the players still standing because they’re having to give 100 per cent every week without the possibility of a rest. Hopefully the club has a change in luck in 2020 — they’ll be hard to beat with a full list to choose from.

Finals contenders

Bulldogs 11/10 6.30pm - Bruce and Keath trade had not happened but he expected them to succeed.
CRYSTAL BALL
I’m very confident the Bulldogs will not only be a finals team in 2020 but they will definitely finish top four and challenge for the premiership. Obviously I can’t predict what sort of luck they’ll have with injuries to key players but if they have a good run then there’s no doubt the Bulldogs will be one of the teams to beat next year. Get ready for a fun ride, Bulldogs fans.

Hawks 14/10 6am - Patton and Frost had been traded in, bu didn't mention Pittonet out which was 2 days later.
CRYSTAL BALL
There is still enough talent on the list to play finals next year but I don’t think the Hawks will be a premiership contender. Clarkson is obviously a very astute coach and has been for many years, so nothing would surprise me when it comes to Hawthorn and what game style he can devise and implement over the pre-season but I believe the Hawks will be a 5-8 team in 2020.

Essendon 14/10 9.30am - didn't expect Daniher to be traded, didn't consider Cutler and Phillips ins.
CRYSTAL BALL
I have been bullish about Essendon for the past two seasons, declaring they should be a top-four and premiership contender with the list they have, but I no longer think this list can win a premiership - even if Daniher ends up staying. If he does leave, it would be a savage blow. They’re a 6-10 side.

Adelaide 7/10 3pm - discussed Keath, Greenwood, Betts, Jenkins, CEY and Jacobs going.
CRYSTAL BALL
The Crows should be optimistic about their prospects in the years to come despite a disappointing season in 2019. With Pyke moving on, we could see a sharp rise from Adelaide next year as the players move past the issues that have engulfed the club since the Grand Final loss. What stands out is the depth — this list is capable of much more than its 10-12 win-loss season this year, even without the players set to be traded. This should be a team that makes finals and challenges for a top-four position. Doedee will replace Keath in the backline alongside Talia and Kyle Hartigan, while O’Brien will be No.1 ruck (if there’s no trade for Grundy), Fogarty is going to be a star and will replace Jenkins.

St Kilda 8/10 3pm Day after trades opened got the 3 in 2 out right in summary but Howard and Butler also in
CRYSTAL BALL
St Kilda can play finals next year as the additions of Hill, Jones and Ryder will elevate the potential in this list. Bringing in those three will improve the list overall despite the possible loss of Bruce and Steven. They should be in the 6-10 range in terms of ladder position.

Melbourne 10/10 2pm - Tomlinson was in, picked Langdon in but not Frost out and was bullish on Elliot in
CRYSTAL BALL
Melbourne can’t win the premiership next year, however, there’s enough scope for improvement on the list for them to bounce back into finals contention but that won’t be achieved without everyone at the club, including the playing group, accepting responsibility for what was a very poor season this year


No Finals but hope.

Carlton 12/10 1pm - Was expecting Papley, Marin and Betts to join. Didn't see Pittonet in, Phillips out.
CRYSTAL BALL
Carlton should be a far more consistent team in 2020 and be much harder to beat. Immediate improvement under Teague should see them in the finals mix as soon as next year, especially if they have luck with injuries, but playing finals in 2021-22 is probably a more realistic expectation. I think the Blues can seriously challenge for the premiership as soon as 2021.

Sydney 10/10 11am - expected Daniher in and Papely out didn't happen as well as Zac Jones out which did
CRYSTAL BALL
While the Swans could have one of the best forward combinations with Franklin and Daniher from next year, it takes more than two players to build a premiership team. I have concerns over the midfield — Kennedy showed signs of slowing down this year and Parker looked a bit the same to me, they both looked a bit tired. The loss of Zak Jones and Tom Papley takes away a lot of speed and creativity, which the Swans already lack, so I think there is still some work to be done both in the list build and development before they become a premiership threat again. A middle of the pack finish is where the club finds itself now and that’s probably what we can expect from them next season as Longmire continues to regenerate the list and gets games into young players. They’re an 8-12 side. But I have a lot of respect for Sydney and their ability to fast-track the development of their players so I wouldn’t be surprised if they prove me wrong.

Fremantle 14/10 - Hill and Langdon out, didn't talk about Aish as a possible in
CRYSTAL BALL
A fit and healthy list to choose from is critical to what Fremantle can produce in 2020. The club has been hit hard by injuries over the past two seasons, which has hampered their ability to reach their full potential and as a result improve the win-loss record. What it has done, however, is give younger players more exposure to senior football. With some good trading and player development over the summer, Fremantle can be a finals contender next year.


See's no Hope

Gold Coast 16/10 6am
Where do I start?
......
CRYSTAL BALL
There’s more pain ahead for Gold Coast in 2020. It will be another development year as the club gets games into the young guns they’ve drafted over the last year or two — Lukosius, King, Rankine and McLennan in particular — so these guys develop and want to stay. I can’t see the Suns challenging for the finals for many years, if the club can even survive that long.

The Suns and the AFL, need to ask four key questions:

— Do we have the best people in place to support Stuart Dew?

— Do we have the best people in administration?

— Do we have the best recruiters and the best list manager with a history of best practice success? By that I mean people who have been part of a successful rebuild before, not just guys who have worked in the industry for a long time.

— Do we have the best football support staff?

The answer to every question must be yes or I can’t see Gold Coast enjoying any on-field success. The cycle of drafting young guns and then losing them 2-4 years later will continue.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I'm confused. Is he saying port adelaide are top 4 certainties? Like in football? At AFL level?

 

[NoddyHolder]

Are you seriously comparing Lynch and Riewoldt to our forwards?

No. Just commenting on structure in response to your post

Are you seriously shifting the goalposts again?

 

[tribey]

No. Just commenting on structure in response to your post

Are you seriously shifting the goalposts again?

Zero drafted All-Australians under Ken Hinkley, Cripps, Davies and friends (2012-2019).

Even Matthew Primus and bRyan McMillan found Wingard.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

#primuswasunderrated

 

[Janus]

I like reading Buckenara's analysis but you have to temper it because he is positive about most teams. The trade period closed 16 Oct at 8pm EST. Here are Bucky's comments and date and time stamp on the articles. Here are the Crystal Ball sections.

He hasn't done Brisbane, GWS, North and Richmond yet


Port 19/10 11am
CRYSTAL BALL
The list is good enough to be a finals contender and if the hunger and desire is strong enough then this group would be capable of challenging for a top-four position next year. The problem is, Port Adelaide has been so inconsistent for so long. How can we still be questioning a group’s hunger to succeed?

Top 4 certainties despite the fact no Richmond, GWS and Brisbane analysis so far

WCE 10/10 3pm - Kelly trade had been completed
CRYSTAL BALL
West Coast will be one of the teams to beat in 2020. The addition of Kelly means this club is so well set up for a tilt at the premiership over the next 2-3 years at a minimum that I can see them creating a dynasty. The list has stars across all lines and has depth too, so even if they have some bad luck with injuries I’m confident the Eagles will be able to cover them. The Eagles are going to be very hard to beat for the foreseeable future.

Geelong 12/10 11am - Kelly had happened, expected Stevens but Jenkins in, Smith out wasn't discussed
CRYSTAL BALL
The Cats should be a contender again in 2020 and challenge for top four but the query is over the ageing nature of the list and whether they can stand up for a full season, plus the lack of pace through the midfield. It’s one thing to play finals but it’s another thing to genuinely challenge for and win a premiership. Can the Cats go all the way in 2020? I’m not convinced, especially if they go into another season without a genuine No.1 ruckman. How quickly can the 21 and under players take the next step? 2020 could be a building season with an eye to 2021.

Collingwood 16/10 12.30pm - mentions Cameron in, but not Aish out. Starts off with
I was wrong about Collingwood. .....
CRYSTAL BALL
Collingwood has enough quality to again be top four and challenging for the premiership but I’m worried about how much the injury toll of the last two seasons has taken on the players. While we know they have great depth, players like Grundy, Pendlebury, Crisp, Sidebottom, Treloar, Mihocek, Roughead and Howe have been asked to shoulder a lot of the load and have probably played through various injuries. Injury tolls like the ones Collingwood have endured over the last two years do have the capacity to drain the players still standing because they’re having to give 100 per cent every week without the possibility of a rest. Hopefully the club has a change in luck in 2020 — they’ll be hard to beat with a full list to choose from.

Finals contenders

Bulldogs 11/10 6.30pm - Bruce and Keath trade had not happened but he expected them to succeed.
CRYSTAL BALL
I’m very confident the Bulldogs will not only be a finals team in 2020 but they will definitely finish top four and challenge for the premiership. Obviously I can’t predict what sort of luck they’ll have with injuries to key players but if they have a good run then there’s no doubt the Bulldogs will be one of the teams to beat next year. Get ready for a fun ride, Bulldogs fans.

Hawks 14/10 6am - Patton and Frost had been traded in, bu didn't mention Pittonet out which was 2 days later.
CRYSTAL BALL
There is still enough talent on the list to play finals next year but I don’t think the Hawks will be a premiership contender. Clarkson is obviously a very astute coach and has been for many years, so nothing would surprise me when it comes to Hawthorn and what game style he can devise and implement over the pre-season but I believe the Hawks will be a 5-8 team in 2020.

Essendon 14/10 9.30am - didn't expect Daniher to be traded, didn't consider Cutler and Phillips ins.
CRYSTAL BALL
I have been bullish about Essendon for the past two seasons, declaring they should be a top-four and premiership contender with the list they have, but I no longer think this list can win a premiership - even if Daniher ends up staying. If he does leave, it would be a savage blow. They’re a 6-10 side.

Adelaide 7/10 3pm - discussed Keath, Greenwood, Betts, Jenkins, CEY and Jacobs going.
CRYSTAL BALL
The Crows should be optimistic about their prospects in the years to come despite a disappointing season in 2019. With Pyke moving on, we could see a sharp rise from Adelaide next year as the players move past the issues that have engulfed the club since the Grand Final loss. What stands out is the depth — this list is capable of much more than its 10-12 win-loss season this year, even without the players set to be traded. This should be a team that makes finals and challenges for a top-four position. Doedee will replace Keath in the backline alongside Talia and Kyle Hartigan, while O’Brien will be No.1 ruck (if there’s no trade for Grundy), Fogarty is going to be a star and will replace Jenkins.

St Kilda 8/10 3pm Day after trades opened got the 3 in 2 out right in summary but Howard and Butler also in
CRYSTAL BALL
St Kilda can play finals next year as the additions of Hill, Jones and Ryder will elevate the potential in this list. Bringing in those three will improve the list overall despite the possible loss of Bruce and Steven. They should be in the 6-10 range in terms of ladder position.

Melbourne 10/10 2pm - Tomlinson was in, picked Langdon in but not Frost out and was bullish on Elliot in
CRYSTAL BALL
Melbourne can’t win the premiership next year, however, there’s enough scope for improvement on the list for them to bounce back into finals contention but that won’t be achieved without everyone at the club, including the playing group, accepting responsibility for what was a very poor season this year


No Finals but hope.

Carlton 12/10 1pm - Was expecting Papley, Marin and Betts to join. Didn't see Pittonet in, Phillips out.
CRYSTAL BALL
Carlton should be a far more consistent team in 2020 and be much harder to beat. Immediate improvement under Teague should see them in the finals mix as soon as next year, especially if they have luck with injuries, but playing finals in 2021-22 is probably a more realistic expectation. I think the Blues can seriously challenge for the premiership as soon as 2021.

Sydney 10/10 11am - expected Daniher in and Papely out didn't happen as well as Zac Jones out which did
CRYSTAL BALL
While the Swans could have one of the best forward combinations with Franklin and Daniher from next year, it takes more than two players to build a premiership team. I have concerns over the midfield — Kennedy showed signs of slowing down this year and Parker looked a bit the same to me, they both looked a bit tired. The loss of Zak Jones and Tom Papley takes away a lot of speed and creativity, which the Swans already lack, so I think there is still some work to be done both in the list build and development before they become a premiership threat again. A middle of the pack finish is where the club finds itself now and that’s probably what we can expect from them next season as Longmire continues to regenerate the list and gets games into young players. They’re an 8-12 side. But I have a lot of respect for Sydney and their ability to fast-track the development of their players so I wouldn’t be surprised if they prove me wrong.

Fremantle 14/10 - Hill and Langdon out, didn't talk about Aish as a possible in
CRYSTAL BALL
A fit and healthy list to choose from is critical to what Fremantle can produce in 2020. The club has been hit hard by injuries over the past two seasons, which has hampered their ability to reach their full potential and as a result improve the win-loss record. What it has done, however, is give younger players more exposure to senior football. With some good trading and player development over the summer, Fremantle can be a finals contender next year.


See's no Hope

Gold Coast 16/10 6am
Where do I start?
......
CRYSTAL BALL
There’s more pain ahead for Gold Coast in 2020. It will be another development year as the club gets games into the young guns they’ve drafted over the last year or two — Lukosius, King, Rankine and McLennan in particular — so these guys develop and want to stay. I can’t see the Suns challenging for the finals for many years, if the club can even survive that long.

The Suns and the AFL, need to ask four key questions:

— Do we have the best people in place to support Stuart Dew?

— Do we have the best people in administration?

— Do we have the best recruiters and the best list manager with a history of best practice success? By that I mean people who have been part of a successful rebuild before, not just guys who have worked in the industry for a long time.

— Do we have the best football support staff?

The answer to every question must be yes or I can’t see Gold Coast enjoying any on-field success. The cycle of drafting young guns and then losing them 2-4 years later will continue.

It's probably better to read the actual body of the article than the crystal ball bit, because that's pretty much a best outcome scenario.

Adelaide

So while Adelaide will be in a transition period over the next 1-3 years, the list management and recruiting team has done a good job in preparing the club for the future, it’s now all about giving those guys as many games at AFL level as possible.

Carlton

There is so much potential and hope for the future in this list, Carlton fans and the club as a whole just need to continue to be patient for a little bit longer because a successful period is just around the corner.

Collingwood

We know Collingwood’s midfield is excellent — Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Adam Treloar, Steele Sidebottom, Taylor Adams and Dayne Beams are stars but the same question is being asked: Who are they kicking it to? Jordan De Goey, Jamie Elliott, Stephenson and Will Hoskin-Elliott are all very dangerous mid-sized forwards but the missing piece in the Magpies’ premiership puzzle is a key forward.

Essendon

It’s a good spread of talent, don’t get me wrong, and a spread most clubs would love but there is a serious need for a genuine superstar. The Bombers got into the top eight under false pretences this year because their form wasn’t that great going in and then they bowed out very easily, so I’d expect something similar next year if they make it.

Their best football looks good but when things aren’t going their way they look second rate.

Fremantle

Fremantle has a combined 31 C-grade and developing players on its list, which explains why their form dropped away when those key players were missing. There is some depth on the list but at the moment, it’s young and inconsistent. That large number does, however, mean the next 2-3 years are crucial for the club’s development. Can these players improve enough to elevate the team into a finals and premiership contender?

Geelong

Can the Cats get these young guns to take the next step while Dangerfield, Ablett, Selwood and Hawkins are still around? Having a genuine and reliable ruckman is the missing piece in Geelong’s premiership puzzle.

Gold Coast

But I still think the Suns desperately need more experienced players who are well-respected and have had long careers in footy to go up there and set the example.

Hawthorn

The Hawks still have enough A and B-grade players to be competitive and push for finals next year but the development of the players aged 21 and under is going to dictate how far the team can go.

Melbourne

The list has been overrated. When I have a deep look at what Goodwin has available to him, I see 11 A or B-grade players, far too many C-graders and only one player under 21 — Sam Weideman — who has the potential to become an A or B-grader.

It’s a massive concern.

Port Adelaide

There needs to be some robust and honest discussions within Port Adelaide over the summer, centred around one key question: ‘Does team and club success mean enough to us as a playing group?’

St Kilda

Are they going to take the next step and elevate themselves into the B-grade range with the potential to get to A-grade level, or are they just going to keep producing the same football they have for the past 2-3 seasons?

That’s the big question.

Sydney

That’s why I have some concerns about the Swans. They don’t have enough young players who look like they’re going to take the next step and become really good AFL players. Guys like Harry Cunningham, George Hewett, Ben Ronke and Jackson Thurlow have probably reached their ceiling. Are they going to get any better?

They’ve got too many C-graders.

West Coast

Some clubs can fall into the trap of ignoring the draft while they see themselves in the flag window but the Eagles are the complete opposite. They’ve managed to bring in good players via trades, including Lewis Jetta, Elliot Yeo and Jack Redden, but kept early picks in drafts for the types of players they need to fill positional needs in the future.

They’ve drafted them early enough to rotate them through the senior team and give them a taste of football at senior level while Kennedy and Schofield are still playing, so they know what’s required to become good AFL players rather than drafting them to fill immediate needs. That’s not what the draft is for — the draft is to look 2-4 years down the track, and the Eagles have done it beautifully.

Western Bulldogs

After missing the finals in 2017, the club has been able to rejuvenate its list in the space of two years and I expect Luke Beveridge’s team to be a serious premiership threat in 2020.



So I'd say the Dogs and West Coast are his top four locks. Richmond would be another one. Teams that are top four challengers are teams that could make top four if everything goes right.

 

[tribey]

#primuswasunderrated

Let’s not go nuts, but at least he knew what a rebuild was.

This regime would hand a 4-year deal to Brent Harvey tomorrow and still give us their sh¡t-eating “young team” excuses after losing to Port Elliott at home under lights.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Let’s not go nuts, but at least he knew what a rebuild was.

This regime would hand a 4-year deal to Brent Harvey tomorrow and still give us their sh¡t-eating “young team” excuses after losing to Port Elliott at home under lights.

BuT wE PlaYEd CoNNoR RoZEe ARe yOu NOt enTERtAiNed???

 

[Schulzenfest]

Okay. Go through the finalists this year and tell me how many talls they played in the forward line. Then come back to me about what I don't understand.

Let's just save time and look at the Grand Finalists, shall we?

Richmond: Riewoldt, Lynch, Nank/Soldo/Chol/Balta
GWS: Cameron, Himmelberg, Finlayson

Also, your daily reminder that since Marshall's debut we're 13-3 with both he and Dixon in the side and 14-19 when either one or both of them has been out of the side.

If we’d drafted him he’d have washed up and you’d have blamed him.

Dustin Martin four or five years ago was more or less the same player in the same situation that Chad Wingard was last year.

 

[Duck Farmer]

Lol - we all know Janus is a crackpot but we can't help ourselves arguing with him in the forlorn hope that logic will prevail.

 

[Janus]

Let's just save time and look at the Grand Finalists, shall we?

Richmond: Riewoldt, Lynch, Nank/Soldo/Chol/Balta
GWS: Cameron, Himmelberg, Finlayson

How did that go for them on grand final day? The only thing that saved them from being absolutely destroyed was the fact that they didn't have their coach go on national television and talk about how they have a reputation for choking.

Also, your daily reminder that since Marshall's debut we're 13-3 with both he and Dixon in the side and 14-19 when either one or both of them has been out of the side.

I'm not arguing to keep Marshall and Dixon out of the side. Of course they make the team better when they are in form. I'm saying that in that one game when both Dixon and Marshall were out of form, Howard could have done better. He's not going to be a great loss because he doesn't have the right temperament for winning a premiership.

A football season is made up of 22 moments where the team that gets put on the park needs to do everything it can to win. Structure, game plan, it's all meaningless unless you've got the right attitude.

Dustin Martin four or five years ago was more or less the same player in the same situation that Chad Wingard was last year.

Dustin Martin four or five years ago was 23-24 years old. Wingard is only two years younger than him and is now 26 years old. So if there was going to be a 2017 Dustin Martin type 'it all clicks' moment for him...the clock is ticking.

 

[charcolechaddy]

It’s easy to take the argument for the negative because you can always point to hypotheticals as being the correct path instead of dealing with what actually happened.

Would Dixon and Marshall have made it better? Maybe. It could have made it worse too.

I’m not interested in hypotheticals. I’m interested in what actually happened. And what happened was a player who quit on his teammates because he didn’t like what he was asked to do. It wasn’t an impossible task. Of course, it didn’t help that he was joined by another quitter in Ryder who displayed the same attitude.

If you’re playing Dixon and Marshall, you’re not playing Howard and Ryder. There’s a limit to how many talls you can play and still keep the ball locked inside the front half.

The FACT is nothing is working.

 

[El_Scorcho]

No, I pick on the pathogen, which is the cause of the disease. You could have the best leaders in football working for the club, and it wouldn't make a difference if the people who take the field don't believe in themselves internally. It's not about assigning blame, it's about doing what we can to fix it. That's the mindset that needs to change.

If you had the best leaders in football working at the club, you wouldn't have a playing list full of unmotivated talent lacking belief in themselves and the system.

I can't believe this needs to be pointed out to you again and again.

If David Koch in his current form is Richmond chairman, they are still finishing ninth year in year out.

My philosophy in life is this - if someone has done it, barring things you can't control like genetics or luck, you can do it too. So there is nothing stopping Port from winning a flag next year except themselves.

Yes, everyone agrees, provided you acknowledge that "Port" is a football club and not just 40 players.

So what makes a good leader? Accountability is just being able to put your hand up and say you made a mistake. If you're thinking along the line of 'when you make a mistake, we're going to crucify you for it', then that's not even close to leadership. The idea is to promote an environment where everyone is in it together...that's what makes a good leader.

Which people at Port Adelaide are good leaders?

If the environment we are fostering was s**t, guys like Houston and Byrne-Jones - players who were picked late in the draft - wouldn't be as good as they are now.

Ah the lofty heights of solid 2nd tier. Glad to hear we're keeping those standards sky high.

 

[TeeKray]

Zero drafted All-Australians under Ken Hinkley, Cripps, Davies and friends (2012-2019).

Even Matthew Primus and bRyan McMillan found Wingard.

We've only drafted 3 All Australians since 2000 - Boak, Gray and Wingard.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

Richmond actually had medium/long term goals and a plan to achieve them.

We exist to make finals, maybe, unless we aren't trying to for some reason.

 

[Janus]