Makybe Diva comparisons

[SaintsSupporter]

By the way starz I was just thinking.
If you really think that the Cup is such a great race and rated so high you must know very little about racing.

Any time you want to have a punt, drop me a email and I'll give you SP everytime. I think I'll be able to retire on you alone within 6 months.

do you need me to tell you want SP is?

Stupid Punters?

 

[Im The Gun]

Stupid Punters?

in his case yes

I still want to see if starz knows tho

 

[starz]

Welcome to the real world.
I follow all group 1 races too and enjoy them when they come around, but you have to be realistic.

The actual top 10 races in order:
Majors: The Cox Plate / Melbourne Cup
Daylight.
.
.
.
.
(Nice Feather in cap races v)
BMW / The Caulfield Crapshoot
The Aus Cup / Doncaster
Others - good effort if you win but ultimately just micky mouse, unless the way it’s won is very impressive, counts for little if any compared to majors.

While I’m here
Makybe Diva won last years Cox Plate even being held back by Boss at the top of the straight, was pushed off the track 6 wide all the way round the bend. Even with such a short straight to come still won so easily going away never leaving 3rd gear hands and heels..
So with this years Cox Plate winner being Fields Of Omagh who was in the 05‘ Cox Plate, does anyone actually think MD wouldn’t have won this years Cox Plate very very easily?

 

[medusala]

Welcome to the real world.
I follow all group 1 races too and enjoy them when they come around, but you have to be realistic.

How about you tell us all the no of Grp 1 winners in each race as a decent comparison for quality.

One would expect the Melb Cup to be absolutely full of them if its the 2nd best race.

 

[Im The Gun]

Welcome to the real world.
I follow all group 1 races too and enjoy them when they come around, but you have to be realistic.

The actual top 10 races in order:
Majors: The Cox Plate / Melbourne Cup
Daylight.
.
.
.
.
(Nice Feather in cap races v)
BMW / The Caulfield Crapshoot
The Aus Cup / Doncaster
Others - good effort if you win but ultimately just micky mouse, unless the way it’s won is very impressive, counts for little if any compared to majors.

While I’m here
Makybe Diva won last years Cox Plate even being held back by Boss at the top of the straight, was pushed off the track 6 wide all the way round the bend. Even with such a short straight to come still won so easily going away never leaving 3rd gear hands and heels..
So with this years Cox Plate winner being Fields Of Omagh who was in the 05‘ Cox Plate, does anyone actually think MD wouldn’t have won this years Cox Plate very very easily?

Starz are you gonna take me on and bet with me??
do you know what SP means?

No one is saying that she wouldn't have won this years cup, its not the point. FOO won it has history will show. He also ran in 5 and taking a line through him, when he was at his peak (2/3/4) years ago Northerly was a better horse after all he did beat him by 10 lengths back then.

The cup is a long way behind the top 5 races in Australia, for starters its at a dist that is suited to stayers.

 

[starz]

Santic/Freedman wouldn’t have bothered with the inferior races this year: Aus Cup or BMW, won them easily last year and they’re micky mouse low rated races in comparison.
They would have kept her fresh for the majors in the Spring Carnival.

 

[Im The Gun]

Santic/Freedman wouldn’t have bothered with the inferior races this year: Aus Cup or BMW, won them easily last year and they’re micky mouse low rated races in comparison.
They would have kept her fresh for the majors in the Spring Carnival.

Starz come on are you gonna bet with me, i really want your losing bets

 

[Angus1]

Makybe Diva won last years Cox Plate even being held back by Boss at the top of the straight, was pushed off the track 6 wide all the way round the bend. Even with such a short straight to come still won so easily going away never leaving 3rd gear hands and heels..
So with this years Cox Plate winner being Fields Of Omagh who was in the 05‘ Cox Plate, does anyone actually think MD wouldn’t have won this years Cox Plate very very easily?

In my original post I actually thought you would engage in a civilised debate.
After reading the rest of this thread i realised i have wasted my time. I did some research into some great horses and posted a few. I posted Phar Lap who you said was 2nd to Makybe Diva , Tulloch and Kingston Town. I could have posted more but I thought I had made my point. Perhaps in your excitement of watching the almighty Diva that maybe you have a biased opinion. After further reading of your posts I realise i have wasted my time.

Basicaly what you are saying is that only horses that win a Melbourne Cup are to be consisidered true champions. That does seem to be the extent of your logic. You consider weight for age races to be mickey mouse. This is enough for me to feel as though you have no idea at all about the subject you are talking on. How on earth racing horses at the same weight or the equivalent to their age can be considered mickey mouse is behond all comprehension. I would have thought it was the only true gauge to go on to prove who is the best horse. The ultimate guage would be of course to run all horses at the same weight but as far as i know that doesn't happen so weight for age is the most accurate gauge.

Now to address your post. Would the Diva had won the Cox Plate this year?
I'm not sure. I believe she would have won with this feild last year but that was the year of the Diva. Her only big year. The only year she ever beat any other horses other then Wangarratta, Sale and Werribee of course. In every other year she failed to beat good horses so it's hard to say how she would have gone this year. Maybe if she followed her outstanding form but history should tell you Starz ( i trust that you do some research) that Melbourne Cup winners rarely ever go on to win another race. Actualy most Melb. Cup winners haven't won that many races to start with. I'm sure with all the research you would have done to make such huge claims that you would know some history into previous winners of Melb. Cups winners.

I'll put it to you this way starz. If Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town, Northerly, Sunline, Might and Power, Rising Fast and Makybe Diva were all lined up for the Cox Plate who do you think would win?




I'm not sure myself but If you made up your mind in about 5 seconds then i think you are delusional.

I'm sure Starz you would prefer them in a Melbourne Cup the only true measure of a horse and we can have Phar Lap carry the 68 kgs that he carried in 1931. That should even things up a bit hey? And Northerly will have to carry some big weights because come on it's Northerly.
I mean stasrz lets even this field up a bit hey. We can't have them all running at weight for age surely???? Lets even it up by penalising the very best horses. Kingston Town $hit who let him in. Hell can't we give him some weight to?
I think your Makybe Diva is the best Australian horse ever makes you look like a joke.
She is a great amongst other greats. Why spoil it by looking at the facts?

Edit: Oh in my hypothetical we aren't going to water the track down from a good rating to a dead.
In the rest of my punting life i prey that will never happen again. I backed the Diva that day but I did feel as though i cheated the rest of the field by running on a dead track when the whether was obviously warm and a good rating should have been the norm as it is every other single day of the week.

 

[Im The Gun]

In my original post I actually thought you would engage in a civilised debate.
After reading the rest of this thread i realised i have wasted my time. I did some research into some great horses and posted a few. I posted Phar Lap who you said was 2nd to Makybe Diva , Tulloch and Kingston Town. I could have posted more but I thought I had made my point. Perhaps in your excitement of watching the almighty Diva that maybe you have a biased opinion. After further reading of your posts I realise i have wasted my time.

Basicaly what you are saying is that only horses that win a Melbourne Cup are to be consisidered true champions. That does seem to be the extent of your logic. You consider weight for age races to be mickey mouse. This is enough for me to feel as though you have no idea at all about the subject you are talking on. How on earth racing horses at the same weight or the equivalent to their age can be considered mickey mouse is behond all comprehension. I would have thought it was the only true gauge to go on to prove who is the best horse. The ultimate guage would be of course to run all horses at the same weight but as far as i know that doesn't happen so weight for age is the most accurate gauge.

Now to address your post. Would the Diva had won the Cox Plate this year?
I'm not sure. I believe she would have won with this feild last year but that was the year of the Diva. Her only big year. The only year she ever beat any other horses other then Wangarratta, Sale and Werribee of course. In every other year she failed to beat good horses so it's hard to say how she would have gone this year. Maybe if she followed her outstanding form but history should tell you Starz ( i trust that you do some research) that Melbourne Cup winners rarely ever go on to win another race. Actualy most Melb. Cup winners haven't won that many races to start with. I'm sure with all the research you would have done to make such huge claims that you would know some history into previous winners of Melb. Cups winners.

I'll put it to you this way starz. If Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town, Northerly, Sunline, Might and Power, Rising Fast and Makybe Diva were all lined up for the Cox Plate who do you think would win?




I'm not sure myself but If you made up your mind in about 5 seconds then i think you are delusional.

I'm sure Starz you would prefer them in a Melbourne Cup the only true measure of a horse and we can have Phar Lap carry the 68 kgs that he carried in 1931. That should even things up a bit hey? And Northerly will have to carry some big weights because come on it's Northerly.
I mean stasrz lets even this field up a bit hey. We can't have them all running at weight for age surely???? Lets even it up by penalising the very best horses. Kingston Town $hit who let him in. Hell can't we give him some weight to?
I think your Makybe Diva is the best Australian horse ever makes you look like a joke.
She is a great amongst other greats. Why spoil it by looking at the facts?

Edit: Oh in my hypothetical we aren't going to water the track down from a good rating to a dead.
In the rest of my punting life i prey that will never happen again. I backed the Diva that day but I did feel as though i cheated the rest of the field by running on a dead track when the whether was obviously warm and a good rating should have been the norm as it is every other single day of the week.

Awesome post and 100% right.
Every big race around the world is at WFA, The world series of racing is at WFA, the sprint series is at wfa. In fact Australian and New Zealand racing are the only 2 counties that have handicap races as group 1's.

Starz has little or no idea.

 

[Angus1]

Awesome post and 100% right.
Every big race around the world is at WFA, The world series of racing is at WFA, the sprint series is at wfa. In fact Australian and New Zealand racing are the only 2 counties that have handicap races as group 1's.

Starz has little or no idea.

I don't think Starz realises that we have produced some outstanding sprinters.
I'm not sure he would even know who Manikato is . He most likely believes it is a name of a big sprint race. Why the race has that name I think would elude him. Hell Manikato never won a Melbourne Cup so it can't be talked about with the same distinction as greats like Rogan Josh, Brew, Subzero, Jezzabeal, Black Knight etc....

Edit: Just for the record starz . Manikato won 29 races including 11 group 1s and 14 group 2s. Including 5 William Reids, 4 Futurity and 3 C G Orr Stakes amongst many other quality races.
Manikato also suffered from inflamation around the legs and had to be iced after every race. He also suffered a bleeding attack and a heart attack.

 

[Angus1]

Another great horse that rarely ever gets mentioned is Todman.
Todman as a 2 year old won 5 races from 6 starts incliding a Golden Slipper stakes, Champagne Stakes and a 2nd in AJC sire produce.
Won 2 races as a 3 year old including a Cantebury Guineas then broke down in his 3rd race that year and did not race again until more then 2 years later.
Came back as a 5 year old and won a Flying Hcp, Lightning Stakes and Futurity Stakes.
Todman won the golden Slipper stakes by 8 lengths.
Chapagne Stakes by 6 lengths.
Cantebury Guineas by 8 lengths.
Todman only ever raced 12 times but won an amazing 10 of those. In 7 of those wins he clocked record times.

 

[sethlad]

You're wasting your time,Starz declared Manikato a "b grader" in the Manikato thread.
There's really no-one at home,he's honestly believes what he's written.
Thats the saddest part.

seth

 

[HeLMie]

Another great horse that rarely ever gets mentioned is Todman.
Todman as a 2 year old won 5 races from 6 starts incliding a Golden Slipper stakes, Champagne Stakes and a 2nd in AJC sire produce.
Won 2 races as a 3 year old including a Cantebury Guineas then broke down in his 3rd race that year and did not race again until more then 2 years later.
Came back as a 5 year old and won a Flying Hcp, Lightning Stakes and Futurity Stakes.
Todman won the golden Slipper stakes by 8 lengths.
Chapagne Stakes by 6 lengths.
Cantebury Guineas by 8 lengths.
Todman only ever raced 12 times but won an amazing 10 of those. In 7 of those wins he clocked record times.

Damn, i really need to read up on a bit of history...

 

[starz]

Angus, a long post much ado about bs/nothing. Thanks for taking the time though.
You’re more or less asking me to cover old ground, the track was dead to good on a hot windy day it made no difference anyway. My posts are very clear regarding all those points, go back and READ.

Seth, i'm fully aware of Manikato, a legendary sprinter but couldn't win the big ones. 0 majors.

Im_the_
Like I said, grow up.
No way in hell would I do business with you.
I don’t rate you and there’s more chance of the Queen marrying Elvis on the moon than me exchanging any details or transactions with you, not that I believe you anyway.
Are you going to talk up your fighting credentials now? Wouldn’t surprise.
Enough already, you’re wasting my time.

 

[Angus1]

Damn, i really need to read up on a bit of history...

Yes well because of starz i have done some reading up on history and it may come as a surprise to him that Australia have had some pretty good horses who have dominated their era.
That was the point of all my posts but it seems to have been lost on starz.
Doesn't matter really as i did enjoy reading about past great champions who actualy did dominate their era.

 

[Angus1]

Angus, a long post much ado about bs/nothing. Thanks for taking the time though..

That's ok I like talking about horse racing. To you it is nothing, to me it was just stating how Australia has produced many fine horese and some of the elite have dominated an era.

You’re more or less asking me to cover old ground, the track was dead to good on a hot windy day it made no difference anyway. My posts are very clear regarding all those points, go back and READ..

Actually that was only an edit that i put in and wasn't the basis of my post. Since you brought it up though Tony Santic stated on TV several times that he would not start Makybe Diva unless the track was heavily watered. I have this on video and he clearly states a number of times that the Derby Day track was not considered acceptable. The Derby Day track was good and he said that he would not run MD if the track was like it was on that day. Needless to say if the track was rated good Makybe Diva would not have even started.
Like i said it was only an edit and not the basis of my posts.

A pity you couldn't respond to the actual points at hand here.
Re: Phar Lap, Tulloch, Kingston Town, Manikato, Northerly, Sunline.
You wanted comparisons so i gave you some yet you say it is bs/nothing. What the hell was your post about then?
The Melbourne Cup is the only true measure of a champion? The Cox plate is one of the only 2 majors but considerably less then the MC?
Ask any person at all who knows anything about racing and ask him which race is the race of a true champion.

Anyway like Helmie has eluded to I have wasted too much time on this thread and need to take a break.

 

[starz]

Angus1, going around in circles again aren‘t you.
Won easily carrying top weight, track was dead to good at 3pm on a hot 30+ degrees and windy day, VRC gave it a little water for safety. IT DID NOT MATTER.

Just leave it mate you're starting to sound like a broken record.

 

[Deej]

Starz you have the level of racing knowledge of a chinese flea will you stfu please. No more chinese flea posts ok capisce little flea?

 

[starz]

Pot, kettle, black.
You don't know what a track rating is, lol.

End of.

 

[Deej]

Pot, kettle, black.
You don't know what a track rating is, lol.

End of.

End of what? Your w@nkish post?

 

[starz]

End of discussion, as in.. i'm done here responding to dribble, your posts for example.