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Malthouse School of Coaches

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September Action

September Action

Premiership Player
Veteran
Jun 2, 2008
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Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
So who will still be around and kicking goals in five years from McKenna, Neeld, Scott and Watters? Who is destined for greatness and who will be on the scrap heap?

(I've deliberately left Buckley out to improve the objectivity of thread responses.)
 
McKenna was popular among Collingwood players, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Mark Neeld seems to carry the weight of the world around in his face, as he twitches and eye-darts his way through interviews, looking at a point halfway between interviewer and camera. Scott Watters is relaxed and witty, but also seems to have the support of the players who are going well. Watters seems a certainty to make it, with a question mark over Neeld and some concern with McKenna's current performance.
 
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Great thread!

I think the coaching merry-go-round will slow up a bit.

We now have more teams. And we now have the advent of the coach mentoring role. Both of these factors have soaked up a lot of the coaching talent on the market. I think this year we have five rookie senior coaches? incredible!

The supply / demand for coaches will start to balance again probably in another 4 / 5 seasons.

But for now, if a coach gets sacked, who is going to replace them? Likely a rookie. They would have to be really bad (eg Bailey) for the club to sack them in favour of a rookie coach. Are any of those four that bad?

McKenna, I would think he could probably survive on the bottom of the ladder this season, but 2013 he would want to start delivering the goods (6 - 8 wins), with finals around 2015. Can he do it? Doesn't look good that his team is behind GWS at the moment.

Scott, I would think would be in the most precarious position of the lot by virtue of his time at the helm and what appears to be general stagnation (I don't keep up with Kangaroos, but that's what it seems to me, happy to be corrected).

Neeld, can safely bob along the bottom this year and next. But 2014 will be his crunch year when he'll be expected to make finals. Can he deliver? I think he can.

Watters, I don't know much about, but he seems to be doing OK.
 
MyManDawes said:
McKenna was popular among Collingwood players, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Mark Neeld seems to carry the weight of the world around in his face, as he twitches and eye-darts his way through interviews, looking at a point halfway between interviewer and camera. Scott Watters is relaxed and witty, but also seems to have the support of the players who are going well. Watters seems a certainty to make it, with a question mark over Neeld and some concern with McKenna's current performance.
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And Brad Scott?
 
MyManDawes said:
McKenna was popular among Collingwood players, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Mark Neeld seems to carry the weight of the world around in his face, as he twitches and eye-darts his way through interviews, looking at a point halfway between interviewer and camera. Scott Watters is relaxed and witty, but also seems to have the support of the players who are going well. Watters seems a certainty to make it, with a question mark over Neeld and some concern with McKenna's current performance.
Click to expand...
Yeah what's that all about? Mild case of tourettes?
 
TheFreshBanana said:
Yeah what's that all about? Mild case of tourettes?
Click to expand...

Didn't he have brain surgery or something after the 2010 Grand Final to overcome migraines? (I've forgotten the details - may or may not be relevant)
 
I think McKenna and Scott will be gone by 2017. Neeld and Watters to stay. Will be interesting though. Malthouse's favourites - the ones he really endorsed - seem to be struggling the most at present.
 
Watters is the one for me. You'd have to say the lineage hasn't performed that well tbh.

Melbourne's gone backwards under Neeld, GC under McKenna has been outshone by GWS, North didn't profit much by Laidley or Scott (have gone backwards).

It's tempting to say most of those clubs were in an ordinary position to start with. But North and GC have definitely been below expectations after a few years. We'll have to see if Neeld has taken the team backward owing to a new game plan.

Watters has injected some youth and released players from the Ross Lyon shackles. The list is still pretty good though.

I reckon the big lesson is that the Pies success went beyond senior coaching to a very able and professional football department which recruited and developed some very good players.
 
I agree with the analysis thus far.

Brad Scott and McKenna would be getting close to thin-ice territory. In McKenna's case, I'm not sure it's 100% his fault- wasn't one of the arguments in favour of handing the expansion clubs such huge hands at the 2010-11 drafts contingent upon the presumption that both clubs would actually TRADE some of those draft picks for some (capable) mature bodies? When did playing almost an entire team of teenagers become the plan? If I remember correctly, the AFL said that it wanted to avoid a Brisbane Bears type scenario.. but the Bears were winning 5-7 games per season in their first years, working with a lot less!

Watters is a much more accomplished media performer, albeit playing with the benefit of a better hand at St Kilda. There is an upside to being the next-coach-in-the-door after Mr. Dour himself.

Neeld needs time. And a priest.
 
I reckon the two unmentioned are the two best. Time will certainly put Worsfold up with the good coaches. Buckley looks like he will follow in the footsteps quite nicely. Of the ones we were asked to comment on:
- McKenna is out of his depth but a really tough role ala Knights at Brisbane in 1987
- A bit the same with Neeld but he looks to be at least getting a response in terms of player effort
- Brad Scott appears that he's lost the players, but often-times off-field dramas affect on-field form. Having JB around can't be great for him.
- Watters has done a great job, but long-term it's a huge job at St Kilda. A large % of the players who have done well this year have been older. I'm not thinking a top 4 spot is possible from the ranks of Siposs, Stanley, Armitage, Steven and McEvoy. If he can cobble the kids together into a top 4 team then he's a master.
 
Old Spice said:
Watters is the one for me. You'd have to say the lineage hasn't performed that well tbh.

Melbourne's gone backwards under Neeld, GC under McKenna has been outshone by GWS, North didn't profit much by Laidley or Scott (have gone backwards).

It's tempting to say most of those clubs were in an ordinary position to start with. But North and GC have definitely been below expectations after a few years. We'll have to see if Neeld has taken the team backward owing to a new game plan.

Watters has injected some youth and released players from the Ross Lyon shackles. The list is still pretty good though.

I reckon the big lesson is that the Pies success went beyond senior coaching to a very able and professional football department which recruited and developed some very good players.
Click to expand...

Watters looks the goods in pressers and the media. A natural cool head.
IT has to be taken into account what type of side each inherited though.

Saints were no rabble (don't ever repeat that off this board), North extremely Meh!, Melbourne a basket case and GC, well there are few examples of a new side simply inheriting a heap of highly touted kids and pinching some greats just making it "because".

Laidley was a good assistant...period.... on and off field others did the leading.
 

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September Action said:
I think McKenna and Scott will be gone by 2017. Neeld and Watters to stay. Will be interesting though. Malthouse's favourites - the ones he really endorsed - seem to be struggling the most at present.
Click to expand...

Surprise surprise.
 
I see Neeld being around in 5 years time and have great confidence in his coaching despite early results.

Sanderson is already a fantastic coach and will be around a long time.

Ross Lyon if he is still interested certainly can be, though I don't see him hanging around if Fremantle begin rebuilding.

Longmire at Sydney with their continued success should have a long coaching career.

Hardwick with an improving Richmond would have to be safe if their improvement continues.

Buckley I do expect to have a long coaching career. He is a football lifer and I can't see him not coaching anytime soon.

Hird depending on whether he still has strong support around him - with Mark Thompson as assistant and Dean Robinson around him it's hard to see Hirdy not coaching Essendon any time soon.


Every other team I have my doubts for varying reasons. Voss and Ratten in particular I can't imagine will last much longer despite the loyalties their respective clubs have to them at this point in time.
 
Fantastic analysis, on the coaches. Out of the ones mentioned I see Watters as the best bet to be around in 5 years time. He strikes me as having great people skills, good media savvy, and a passion for the game.

On 2012 evidence it would appear that Bucks will be as good a coach as he was a player.

Sorry to derail this and I might be wrong 100% on this but I'll ask it anyway...

I got the impression that Malthouse never really embraced Buckley as an understudy, and I wonder why?

Sheedy tongue-in-cheek had stated that he respected Hird but couldn't relate to him. The dour back half player coaching the silky-skilled superstar. The plumber coaching the engineer... etc

Could that somehow explain the Malthouse - Buckley dynamic?

Cheers, J
 
jathanas said:
Fantastic analysis, on the coaches. Out of the ones mentioned I see Watters as the best bet to be around in 5 years time. He strikes me as having great people skills, good media savvy, and a passion for the game.

On 2012 evidence it would appear that Bucks will be as good a coach as he was a player.

Sorry to derail this and I might be wrong 100% on this but I'll ask it anyway...

I got the impression that Malthouse never really embraced Buckley as an understudy, and I wonder why?

Sheedy tongue-in-cheek had stated that he respected Hird but couldn't relate to him. The dour back half player coaching the silky-skilled superstar. The plumber coaching the engineer... etc

Could that somehow explain the Malthouse - Buckley dynamic?

Cheers, J
Click to expand...
Sheedy the dour back half player? Perhaps, he was also a sniper and a sneak. Behind the play hero, always rated his coaching couldn't stand him as a player/
 

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jonbe54 said:
Sheedy the dour back half player? Perhaps, he was also a sniper and a sneak. Behind the play hero, always rated his coaching couldn't stand him as a player/
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Gee Jonbe, you must be really old! :)
 
jonbe54 said:
I'm 58 in August 76WS and went to my first game in '64
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No worries Jonbe, I also remember Sheedy's playing days ('76 was when I started following Collingwood, not when I was born).

It just seems like that was another lifetime ago.
 

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