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Toast Mathew Stokes

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meto said:
How can you mysteriously lose pace when you're pulling 35 possessions, you can't be serious!
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What??? g.Williams, West, Couch etc had no pace and could rack up big touches. it's not a sign of him losing pace. And what it's worth, he ain't racking up the same stats count he has in previous years. When's the last time he got 35?
 
Seeds he av's 18.1 in afl this season but a fortnight ago he got 9 in a quarter as sub, but that counts against him as a full game in the averages, so it should be higher given he sat out 3/4 of that game alone.
He got the 35 in the reserves last week was what I meant. He's got the same pace now as he's always had that's obvious when you consider present form.
In other words it's undiscernible according to his current form so it's a myth. Motlop's having a stellar season with a huge wage rise on the horizon and he's averaging 20.5 touches so far, so Stokes while having a few poor games isn't that far adrift.
 
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Scott in the post match conference on Stokes

"We have a really specific role that we want him to play the one we think is his role in the senior team
"He played well got a lot of the ball last week this week is not so much about just finding the footy, its about playing the role that he would play at AFL level"
"A stronger performance from him will push his case in our minds, he's very close anyway"
"The brutal truth is brutal for Stokesy is that on balance he's probably better than some of the guys who are playing in our team at the moment but they are younger which is working in their favour"
"It's never easy to hear that but unfortunately for him that's just the reality at the moment, doesn't mean that will be the reality next week."

That's got to be a had pill to swallow for Stokes.
 

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Mahlepi said:
stokes will play against the swans and hawks
so too rivers
bookmark
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I'd be willing to bet on Stokes too. They'd have to be tempted be Rivers as well, with Tippett, Franklin and Reid to contend with. And if Doc makes it back into the 22, I think he'll be hard to displace. Interesting situation there, after he missed selection this week: even if he comes back in next week, he needs to play every game and two finals to get to 200. Shades of Rohan Smith.
 
If Stoksey keeps hitting 30 possessions plus in the two's with kids like Lang getting 8-10 touches in the senior's he'd have his manager working hard.
I don't think he'll wait with the memory of Chappy fresh in his mind, they probably had a chat last week.

James Kelly had 20 disposals and he's going at 19.9av a game how do we get rid of him and Mackie had 24 on Saturday, who in the two's is 192cm and gets that many touches, there's no one.
 
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10lana said:
"The brutal truth is brutal for Stokesy is that on balance he's probably better than some of the guys who are playing in our team at the moment but they are younger which is working in their favour"
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I was hoping someone would transcribe that.

Ping Cattery, FredLeDeux.
 
catempire said:
I was hoping someone would transcribe that.

Ping Cattery, FredLeDeux.
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You rang?

Bugger transcribing it, I'd like someone to decipher it.
Following that logic how come Jansen, Gore, Luxford, Bates, Cowen etc aren't getting games ahead of all the other veterans, as I said in the other thread, seems a pretty ad hoc way of going about it to me.

P.S. "Probably" better then some of the guys playing at the moment, a bit of CS humour surely.
 

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Cattery said:
You rang?

Bugger transcribing it, I'd like someone to decipher it.
Following that logic how come Jansen, Gore, Luxford, Bates, Cowen etc aren't getting games ahead of all the other veterans, as I said in the other thread, seems a pretty ad hoc way of going about it to me.

P.S. "Probably" better then some of the guys playing at the moment, a bit of CS humour surely.
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Well, I think it goes back to the Josh Hunt/Cameron Guthrie discussion, which, believe it or not, was a genuine debate for a while when Guthrie was making his way as a defender.

The line was that when players were relatively even on ability and form, the club would favour the younger player. Which is fine (I'd go as far as to call it a Captain Obvious statement) and proved to be an unnecessary qualification, since Guthrie was miles better than Hunt, in Hunt's last season at Geelong. I almost feel that it was just a way to not be publicly critical of Hunt as, at the time, he simply wasn't in our best 22. The issue I have is that I don't think it applies to Stokes, compared to players like Cockatoo and Smedts. Stokes is miles ahead of them right now...it's not close.
 
MC Extra Dollop said:
The line was that when players were relatively even on ability and form, the club would favour the younger player. ........ The issue I have is that I don't think it applies to Stokes, compared to players like Cockatoo and Smedts. Stokes is miles ahead of them right now...it's not close.
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Couldn't agree more, you could add Lang and Gregson as well, especially on their recent form. As I said to CE it seems a rather hit and miss selection policy, dropping one veteran (who's still playing good footy) for far less qualified players doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
 
Cattery said:
You rang?

Bugger transcribing it, I'd like someone to decipher it.
Following that logic how come Jansen, Gore, Luxford, Bates, Cowen etc aren't getting games ahead of all the other veterans, as I said in the other thread, seems a pretty ad hoc way of going about it to me.

P.S. "Probably" better then some of the guys playing at the moment, a bit of CS humour surely.
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Decipher it? It's easy isn't it? In this instance they are placing a higher value on longer term over short.
 
catempire said:
Decipher it? It's easy isn't it? In this instance they are placing a higher value on longer term over short.
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Well he can't help being short .............. oh you mean short as in short term? ;)

Yep I understand it, just think it makes zero sense targeting one veteran and playing obviously inferiour players at his expense, as Dollop says, if we had someone almost equal in ability that's a different story, but we don't.
 
Cattery said:
Well he can't help being short .............. oh you mean short as in short term? ;)

Yep I understand it, just think it makes zero sense targeting one veteran and playing obviously inferiour players at his expense, as Dollop says, if we had someone almost equal in ability that's a different story, but we don't.
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I don't think they need to be equal ability for it to make sense. They just have to have an expectation that the 7 games experience in the younger player would be a longer term gain to the team than the 7 games from Stokes. That line of thinking means current ability is pretty much irrelevant.
 

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What chance, after Scott's comment on Stokes, that Stokes is picked to play next week. :cool:
 
There is something to the speed of youth. I felt for a while our back line was vulnerable against small forwards. Now with Bews, Thurlow, Kolo we just look quicker. None of those measured side by side is obviously better than the old guard on numbers of possessions, marks, or whatever metrics. But the speed makes a difference.

Stokes situation feels similar. He is getting the pill more but Gregson or Lang look to be breaking the line faster. Close the net on our zone quicker. Those things aren't easily measured.

You drop Lang for Stokes, Kolo to Rivers, Nakia to GHS and we lose genuine speed. Possessions may go up, maybe, but Jetta, Smith, Rioli and Hill will have three more guys they'll feel confident of burning past at a key moment.
 
David the Cat said:
What chance, after Scott's comment on Stokes, that Stokes is picked to play next week. :cool:
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Depends how many changes they'd want to make. Horlin-Smith has been good in the VFL for a few weeks now, and he could well have smashed the door down after yesterday's effort. Then it depends on whether they think someone like Lang may need a rest like Gregson did. Barring any injuries we don't know about I don't see more than 1-2 changes. I'd guess Horlin-Smith would be the first inclusion from the VFL and Stokes the second. Unless they surprise us by promoting Gore. Can't see anyone outside those three, especially with the comments about Menzel needing more time, and Vardy unlikely to provide more than Walker already is (not saying he never will, but not right now).
 
Partridge said:
Depends how many changes they'd want to make. Horlin-Smith has been good in the VFL for a few weeks now, and he could well have smashed the door down after yesterday's effort. Then it depends on whether they think someone like Lang may need a rest like Gregson did. Barring any injuries we don't know about I don't see more than 1-2 changes. I'd guess Horlin-Smith would be the first inclusion from the VFL and Stokes the second. Unless they surprise us by promoting Gore. Can't see anyone outside those three, especially with the comments about Menzel needing more time, and Vardy unlikely to provide more than Walker already is (not saying he never will, but not right now).
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Stokes and Gore 30 possessions a piece and goals as well, I think certain GHS for Smedts and either of the first two for Lang who needs to reload confidence.
Cockatoo may also make way for Gore as the sub, with 32 possessions and a goal off HBF I can't see why not.
 
meto said:
Stokes and Gore 30 possessions a piece and goals as well, I think certain GHS for Smedts and either of the first two for Lang who needs to reload confidence.
Cockatoo may also make way for Gore as the sub, with 32 possessions and a goal off HBF I can't see why not.
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I agree Horlin-Smith is close to a certain inclusion; not at all sure Smedts will be dropped and I'm not sure Cockatoo will be either. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see only one change with Lang making way. They tend to be pretty conservative with week to week changes when they aren't forced. I don't see Gore debuting against Sydney or Hawthorn either.
 
Surely there's no chance of a debutant on Saturday night, not in such an important game.

Gregson, Stokes, Horlin-Smith and Rivers the only possible inclusions IMO.

Cockatoo, Lang and Smedts the only possible omissions (pending SJ's MRP date).
 

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