Re: Matt Rendall...
No arguments here stickman.
No arguments here stickman.
Matt Rendell...
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- Oct 6, 2002
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Ahhh yes ...... even though they were discussing indigenous players he should have used PC language which could not possibly be twisted or construed to be selective or racist
Regardless of whether he is a saint or not - and not many of us are - he was shafted.
MrChristo
Club Legend
Re: Matt Rendall...
No, no.
I was making a broad statement...and the CHOOSE/OPTIONAL thing I agree with whole-heartedly.
As I stressed, Jurrah was purely an example...he (as the story) is a different issue altogether...
...the point I was making there is that Melbourne (in this case) took the risk, but it is just that, a risk...and a bigger risk than people seem to be thinking. [Which I believe it was Rendell was effectively saying as well.]
No, no.
I was making a broad statement...and the CHOOSE/OPTIONAL thing I agree with whole-heartedly.
As I stressed, Jurrah was purely an example...he (as the story) is a different issue altogether...
...the point I was making there is that Melbourne (in this case) took the risk, but it is just that, a risk...and a bigger risk than people seem to be thinking. [Which I believe it was Rendell was effectively saying as well.]
Mr Christo and others, I can certainly appreciate your considered posts. I've one (major) problem with them though (not that you were the first to go there). You're inviting the continued escalation of this issue well beyond the point it can get to and still be properly discussed.
What the AFL has found in the last week is that, although it is well meaning, as an organisation it is not smart or thorough enough to tackle complex issues in society. It takes a lot more than nepotistic appointments of underqualified individuals into positions like "Aboriginal liaison officer" and "integrity officer" to actually deal with problems like racial inequality that are so complex that governments, theorists and philosophers of the respective disciplines are still far from being able to provide us with solutions.
One cannot throw a little (or a lot of money) at this, expand the competition and reap the benefits of the initial increase in TV rights. So far the position of indigenous people in Australian society has required at least 25 years of policy development and it looks like it is going to need 25 more before we get anywhere (I say this with all the sympathy for the plight of indigenous Australians who are in crisis or disenfranchised anyone can possibly muster).
The AFL needs to be satisfied with raising awareness and celebration (e.g. Dream Time at the G) but nothing more. It isn't equipped to do anything else.
The poisonous combination of ego and white guilt has the potential to further entrench a problem that, if you believe Rendell and ors, is already very serious. This is where the issue needs to be confined to its actual boundaries. To even mention the "stolen generation" in this context of this issue is insane.
The "tragedy" in this situation can go no further than the broader AFL community being robbed of the wonderful talents of indigenous players (in light of Goodes' comments a few years ago I'll add that this is in no small part due to the respective players' hard work). I assume that soccer feels the same ways about Brazilians (although, being a long frustrated fan of Italy, I don't) and that basketball has a similar appreciation of African Americans.
This is not about what Western Society sees as superior. This issue at its most racist is confined to what experts in the field have identified as a growing gap between the expectations of clubs and the abilities of draftees (is this any different to ENTER scores for uni degrees?). Anyone will tell you that it is not just a black problem. People like Rendell are motivated by a desire to see that a identifiable group of players, experiencing a much higher than usual drop out rate, receive assistance that will enable them to fulfill their potential as AFL stars.
Would the proposal suggested really be any different to the creation of a tennis school; the sham degree handed out to American Footballers; the academies at Barcelona and Ajax training young African and South American children to be soccer players; or even Universities and schools which provide scholarships to youth from under privileged back grounds? The Army takes people away from home and places them in a special area to further training.
A disturbing number of people are not able to distinguish between racism (which is simply the identification along the lines of race/ethnicity) and the negative of racial discrimination. In hanging Rendell the AFL is patting itself on the back and, if it is too self-satisfied it will succeed creating a bigger problem (at best) or a self-fulfilling prophecy of racism (at worst) .
What the AFL has found in the last week is that, although it is well meaning, as an organisation it is not smart or thorough enough to tackle complex issues in society. It takes a lot more than nepotistic appointments of underqualified individuals into positions like "Aboriginal liaison officer" and "integrity officer" to actually deal with problems like racial inequality that are so complex that governments, theorists and philosophers of the respective disciplines are still far from being able to provide us with solutions.
One cannot throw a little (or a lot of money) at this, expand the competition and reap the benefits of the initial increase in TV rights. So far the position of indigenous people in Australian society has required at least 25 years of policy development and it looks like it is going to need 25 more before we get anywhere (I say this with all the sympathy for the plight of indigenous Australians who are in crisis or disenfranchised anyone can possibly muster).
The AFL needs to be satisfied with raising awareness and celebration (e.g. Dream Time at the G) but nothing more. It isn't equipped to do anything else.
The poisonous combination of ego and white guilt has the potential to further entrench a problem that, if you believe Rendell and ors, is already very serious. This is where the issue needs to be confined to its actual boundaries. To even mention the "stolen generation" in this context of this issue is insane.
The "tragedy" in this situation can go no further than the broader AFL community being robbed of the wonderful talents of indigenous players (in light of Goodes' comments a few years ago I'll add that this is in no small part due to the respective players' hard work). I assume that soccer feels the same ways about Brazilians (although, being a long frustrated fan of Italy, I don't) and that basketball has a similar appreciation of African Americans.
This is not about what Western Society sees as superior. This issue at its most racist is confined to what experts in the field have identified as a growing gap between the expectations of clubs and the abilities of draftees (is this any different to ENTER scores for uni degrees?). Anyone will tell you that it is not just a black problem. People like Rendell are motivated by a desire to see that a identifiable group of players, experiencing a much higher than usual drop out rate, receive assistance that will enable them to fulfill their potential as AFL stars.
Would the proposal suggested really be any different to the creation of a tennis school; the sham degree handed out to American Footballers; the academies at Barcelona and Ajax training young African and South American children to be soccer players; or even Universities and schools which provide scholarships to youth from under privileged back grounds? The Army takes people away from home and places them in a special area to further training.
A disturbing number of people are not able to distinguish between racism (which is simply the identification along the lines of race/ethnicity) and the negative of racial discrimination. In hanging Rendell the AFL is patting itself on the back and, if it is too self-satisfied it will succeed creating a bigger problem (at best) or a self-fulfilling prophecy of racism (at worst) .
Keys
Looking for a cloud to yell at
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Re: Matt Rendall...
Agree wholeheartedly with this.
There appears to be a problem with clubs retaining talented footballers from remote communities and I believe Rendell was trying to address this situation by proposing a program that exposed indigenous boys in their mid to late teens to a more structured lifestyle than they have in their community.
His hamfisted warning was that if the situation wasn't addressed then recruiters would be less likely to take the risk of recruiting players like Jurrah because the reward may not be there so they would take a safer option.
By doing so Rendell has left himself open to criticism for insinuating that having a white parent was better than two indigenous parents and that he was being patronising by suggesting that these boys would be better off coming to Melbourne rather than staying in their communities.
I doubt that Rendell intended either of these interpretations would be reached as I don't think he believes either of them to be true and this is why he is so perplexed at being labelled a racist especially considering Mifsud never raised any objection with him personally at any stage despite feeling deeply offended.
The shame of this whole episode is that Rendell comes across as a pretty genuine person and had the AFL dealt with this privately I'm sure Mifsud could have explained to Rendell why his comments were offensive and that Rendell would have been mature enough to understand why his comments could be misconstrued. So instead of finding an amicable solution that didn't result in a person of good character losing his job the AFL has gone in boots and all and forced a decent man to resign tarnishing his reputation irrevocably in the process.
Agree wholeheartedly with this.
There appears to be a problem with clubs retaining talented footballers from remote communities and I believe Rendell was trying to address this situation by proposing a program that exposed indigenous boys in their mid to late teens to a more structured lifestyle than they have in their community.
His hamfisted warning was that if the situation wasn't addressed then recruiters would be less likely to take the risk of recruiting players like Jurrah because the reward may not be there so they would take a safer option.
By doing so Rendell has left himself open to criticism for insinuating that having a white parent was better than two indigenous parents and that he was being patronising by suggesting that these boys would be better off coming to Melbourne rather than staying in their communities.
I doubt that Rendell intended either of these interpretations would be reached as I don't think he believes either of them to be true and this is why he is so perplexed at being labelled a racist especially considering Mifsud never raised any objection with him personally at any stage despite feeling deeply offended.
The shame of this whole episode is that Rendell comes across as a pretty genuine person and had the AFL dealt with this privately I'm sure Mifsud could have explained to Rendell why his comments were offensive and that Rendell would have been mature enough to understand why his comments could be misconstrued. So instead of finding an amicable solution that didn't result in a person of good character losing his job the AFL has gone in boots and all and forced a decent man to resign tarnishing his reputation irrevocably in the process.
SlainteO'Hailpin
Team Captain
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That could be the most important sentence written on this subject since the whole thing erupted. I was just out getting dinner and was thinking on the way there that I should look up the true definitions of these sort of words, so that we could clarify what has really happened, and which "heading" what has happened actually falls under, but you've basically done it with that one sentence.
Pretty much.
By definition every time I check out a good looking "Asian" girl I'm being racist because I'm identifying her characteristics as belonging to a certain "race". I'm pretty sure that I was once told that the use of the word "race" is incorrect as there is only one human race but I don't know if it has a scientific grounding but for the sake of simplicity...
On the news this evening the results of a study have been published in which it was found that young indigenous men are twice as likely to develop depression and related mental issues (you probably cannot quote the figures but the substance of the study is what I'm saying). Yes...shock horror...publishing the results in that way is basically an exercise in racism. What is important is that it isn't seeking to discriminate against someone on the grounds of his race/ethnicity. It is simply the identification of a statistical trend. It is kind of important to identify the statistical trends.
By definition every time I check out a good looking "Asian" girl I'm being racist because I'm identifying her characteristics as belonging to a certain "race". I'm pretty sure that I was once told that the use of the word "race" is incorrect as there is only one human race but I don't know if it has a scientific grounding but for the sake of simplicity...
On the news this evening the results of a study have been published in which it was found that young indigenous men are twice as likely to develop depression and related mental issues (you probably cannot quote the figures but the substance of the study is what I'm saying). Yes...shock horror...publishing the results in that way is basically an exercise in racism. What is important is that it isn't seeking to discriminate against someone on the grounds of his race/ethnicity. It is simply the identification of a statistical trend. It is kind of important to identify the statistical trends.
Plugger35
The umpires are always right!
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Re: Matt Rendall...
Not only that but it means Rendell's suggestions, ie. to provide scholarships to talented indigenous kids in city schools and set up a pre-draft academy in Melbourne, are unlikely to be implemented now, at least in the short term. Would be hypocritical of the AFL to treat Rendell the way they have and then implement his suggestions.
Not only that but it means Rendell's suggestions, ie. to provide scholarships to talented indigenous kids in city schools and set up a pre-draft academy in Melbourne, are unlikely to be implemented now, at least in the short term. Would be hypocritical of the AFL to treat Rendell the way they have and then implement his suggestions.
Saw the Jason Mifsud "interview".
No questions just him talking. No wiser as to why he waited 6 weeks to let anyone know he was offended. Said he did not know whether he and Rendell were still friends. Thats about all he said on that. Did not deny Rendell's version, but said Rendell said some pretty ignorant things which made him uncomfortable in the meeting. Never got an answer as to why he did not take Rendell on at the meeting or anytime afterwards. Except he said he he took his role as an AFL employee and as part of the indigenous community seriously, and maybe throwing Rendell under a bus wasn't that hard to do.
Ironically, Mifsud said its good that its out in the open so that the whole issue can now be discussed. I seriously don't think any AFL club officials will be talking openly with Mifsud anytime soon.
No questions just him talking. No wiser as to why he waited 6 weeks to let anyone know he was offended. Said he did not know whether he and Rendell were still friends. Thats about all he said on that. Did not deny Rendell's version, but said Rendell said some pretty ignorant things which made him uncomfortable in the meeting. Never got an answer as to why he did not take Rendell on at the meeting or anytime afterwards. Except he said he he took his role as an AFL employee and as part of the indigenous community seriously, and maybe throwing Rendell under a bus wasn't that hard to do.
Ironically, Mifsud said its good that its out in the open so that the whole issue can now be discussed. I seriously don't think any AFL club officials will be talking openly with Mifsud anytime soon.
No questions, just Misfud farting his way through the "interview"
A big fat waste of time. What a surprise.
A big fat waste of time. What a surprise.
Agreed
Plugger35
The umpires are always right!
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Saw the Jason Mifsud "interview".
No questions just him talking. No wiser as to why he waited 6 weeks to let anyone know he was offended. Said he did not know whether he and Rendell were still friends. Thats about all he said on that. Did not deny Rendell's version, but said Rendell said some pretty ignorant things which made him uncomfortable in the meeting. Never got an answer as to why he did not take Rendell on at the meeting or anytime afterwards.
Ironically, Mifsud said its good that its out in the open so that the whole issue can now be discussed. I seriously don't think any AFL club officials will be talking openly with Mifsud anytime soon.
Yeah Rendell tried to discuss the issue with him and look where that got him, after listening to Rendell's comments he then sat on it for 6 weeks before ratting him out in public and costing him his job. If I was a recruiter at an AFL club I wouldn't give the bloke the time of day.
No surprise that the Marngrook interview didn't reveal anything either, it was a soft forum for Mifsud to appear on where no hard questions were going to be asked and no doubt the AFL would have screened it beforehand to make sure they came out looking as good as possible.
As I said before, it would have been good to see someone like Sam Newman interview Mifsud on TFS as you know he wouldn't pull any punches and kowtow to the AFL like most media people.
Had a bit of a dig at mifsud on twitter was surprised he responded actually
Saw the Jason Mifsud "interview".
No questions just him talking. No wiser as to why he waited 6 weeks to let anyone know he was offended. Said he did not know whether he and Rendell were still friends. Thats about all he said on that. Did not deny Rendell's version, but said Rendell said some pretty ignorant things which made him uncomfortable in the meeting. Never got an answer as to why he did not take Rendell on at the meeting or anytime afterwards. Except he said he he took his role as an AFL employee and as part of the indigenous community seriously, and maybe throwing Rendell under a bus wasn't that hard to do.
Ironically, Mifsud said its good that its out in the open so that the whole issue can now be discussed. I seriously don't think any AFL club officials will be talking openly with Mifsud anytime soon.
Lots of talk about ignorance and the need to educate.
Not going to happen when no one will discuss what happened.
All I learned is to not comment on aboriginal matters at all, someone might go to jail next time.
Moar please
I really don’t see the point in demonising Mifsud. It’s a complicated issue.
Ironically, Mifsud said its good that its out in the open so that the whole issue can now be discussed. I seriously don't think any AFL club officials will be talking openly with Mifsud anytime soon.
Gonna be a pretty lonely discussion.
Gilbert McAdam has not got a clue either - about anything he talks about. Belongs back in the bookdocks of Channel 31.
From the bits of Misfud's statement I caught (was doing jobs). It appears he was offended at the original comment the the paper, the tone and content of the overall conversation (stereotyping), but also the suggestion that there is a problem that needs to be dealt with now. And his statements about the 'right programmes' makes me think that he was offended that Rendell thought what he was trying to do was not enough ie the current programs were not good enough.
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Rat Rendell out to avoid criticism or scrutiny of the job he or the AFL are doing?
Wonder if this is why he was "offended".
Wonder if this is why he was "offended".
Mifsud actually sounds like a dumbarse.
Just said that his appearance tonight was a soft option for someone who was prepared to throw his mate under a bus. I said he should go through mainstream media.
He replied that it is mainstream media and that there are two worlds.
I replied that it's 1 world and once everyone realizes the better, I said he should man up.
He agreed to being 1 world but 2 cultures asked if I will join to bridge the gap.
I replied that I have indigenous heritage, I have joined, I then asked him if ruining someone's rep is the best way, possibly scared off others who wanted to help.
Hope that makes sense can't be arsed reading it back
He replied that it is mainstream media and that there are two worlds.
I replied that it's 1 world and once everyone realizes the better, I said he should man up.
He agreed to being 1 world but 2 cultures asked if I will join to bridge the gap.
I replied that I have indigenous heritage, I have joined, I then asked him if ruining someone's rep is the best way, possibly scared off others who wanted to help.
Hope that makes sense can't be arsed reading it back
His replies to me are a bit strange, credit to him though that he responds probably very easy just to ignore me and the others.
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