Mattners Goal?

[jc67]

Yes or no?

 

[DaveW]

No. Here's what I said on the gameday board:

Siren sounded before Mattner kicked it. So they got it right, eventually.

But did they really have to tease us by paying it and then taking it away? I thought we'd gotten away with one for a moment there.

Certainly can't fault Mattner for playing on though. It would have been a very tough kick on the angle he was going to be on.

 

[Crow-mosone]

the rule is when the umpires hears the siren, not when it goes. so on that basis, the umpire cannot be wrong.

 

[jo172]

The decision was absolutely correct.

However the method in which it was paid was disgraceful, when two umpires have discussed it than given the all clear than a third umpire comes in and overrules him and disallows a goal is the kind of thing that brings the game into disrepute. This was a clear showing of an umpire not paying it how he sees (or hears) it and being influenced by other players and the crowd.

The Decision was correct but the method in which it was paid could of excused both teams to drop their heads

 

[tribey]

Yep. As has been said, the siren blew before he put boot to ball, but for the umpires to confer, give the all clear and then chalk it off after a further conference was appalling.

I assume there's still time to chalk off Solomon's 'goal' against the Hawks?

 

[macca23]

the rule is when the umpires hears the siren, not when it goes. so on that basis, the umpire cannot be wrong.

Quite right, and the officiating umpire did NOT hear it before Mattner kicked the goal. Technically it should have been called a goal.

Not that it mattered - we weren't good enough.

 

[crowie]

No goal, but it was paid so it really should have been left at that. Mcleod scores that goal at the start of the third and we're up by 31 pts. Those two moments could have been the game breakers.

 

[Stiffy_18]

It wasn't a goal. I know the rule states when the umpire hears the siren BUT it was clear as a daylight that Mattner kicked it after the siren. Funnily enough that was a bit of a turning pont for us.

 

[tribey]

It wasn't a goal. I know the rule states when the umpire hears the siren BUT it was clear as a daylight that Mattner kicked it after the siren.

No doubt Stifler, but to confer, then give it the all clear, then have another bloke run in and chalk it off was just poor.

Incidentally, I don't remember any members of the umpiring fraternity running in to wipe off Richard Osborne's goal at Vic Park back in 1997 (booted on the run well and truly after the siren sounded to end the second quarter) - and considering we lost by a point that day, it's safe to say we were a little stiff.

Karma shirks the contest again.

 

[Stiffy_18]

No doubt Stifler, but to confer, then give it the all clear, then have another bloke run in and chalk it off was just poor.

Incidentally, I don't remember any members of the umpiring fraternity running in to wipe off Richard Osborne's goal at Vic Park back in 1997 (booted on the run well and truly after the siren sounded to end the second quarter) - and considering we lost by a point that day, it's safe to say we were a little stiff.

Karma shirks the contest again.

You won't get an argument from me on that one

 

[macca23]

It wasn't a goal. I know the rule states when the umpire hears the siren BUT it was clear as a daylight that Mattner kicked it after the siren.

It wasn't as clear as daylight to the officiating umpire.

Remember, watching TV we hear the siren the milli-second that it occurs. That is not the case on the ground, and the umpire furtherest away from the siren, the officiating umpire, obviously heard the siren after Mattner kicked. He conferred with the goal umpire who obviously agreed with him.

 

[McLeodMagic]

No goal, but it was paid so it really should have been left at that. Mcleod scores that goal at the start of the third and we're up by 31 pts. Those two moments could have been the game breakers.

Agreed - it was definitely a turning point.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Just pure bad luck - the timing was totally against us! Cant blame Mattner one bit - not sure I've seen one guy outvote two before!

 

[flamethrower]

Definitely not a goal.

The siren clearly went 3.8 nanoseconds before Mattner's kick.

 

[NikkiNoo]

don't have my rule book with me but from what i remember when i was umpiring it was always when the 'officiating' umpire heard the siren - not the one that was furtherest away from the contest.

I remember an sanfl game where the siren broke (it sounded for about 3 secs) and the game kept playing and the umpire down the end away from the play had to run up the ground to alert the other umpire and it didn't stop until the umpire in control of the play called a stop to the game. Yes the other umpire told him but it was the officiating umpire that had to blow the whistle to end the game.

the 3aw call did enjoy that it would have been one of the few times that the umpires were roundly booed by both supporters at a game

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Speaking after this incident the question arose is there a captain or lead umpire to make a "final" decision like last night where there are differing opinions amongst the umpires??

 

[crowie]

Can someone answer this for me?

Mattner kicked the ball after the siren started but before the siren stopped. Is there any official ruling on this kind of thing?

I say this because in tennis, the ball only has to clip the edge of the line to be in, even though most of the ball has landed on the outside of the line.

 

[SonOfScray]

Can someone answer this for me?

Mattner kicked the ball after the siren started but before the siren stopped. Is there any official ruling on this kind of thing?

I say this because in tennis, the ball only has to clip the edge of the line to be in, even though most of the ball has landed on the outside of the line.

Fair question, I have always been lead to believe that as soon as the siren sounds thats the end of play. With that in mind, you'd be hard pressed to make an argument for the Mattner "goal". It was a disgrace that the umpire was willing to pay it in the first place, I am glad that common sense won out. The general consensus that the way the umpires went about was certaintly poor, but at least they made the correct decision.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Play stops not when the siren sounds but when the umpire hears the siren and calls a halt to play.

 

[marvin]

Play stops not when the siren sounds but when the umpire hears the siren and calls a halt to play.

Which is why it should have stood. The controlling umpire at that end of the ground, and the goal umpire conferred and agreed that it stood. The umpire at the far end who at 100 metres plus away from the action was in the worst position to decide when Mattner played on was the one who overruled.

If Martin Mattner was James Hird, the umpire would have let the goal stand, given him another shot for the whinging of the Bulldogs players, paid a 50 metre penalty against the Cheer squad, and then kicked it for him.

 

[DaveW]

Can someone answer this for me?

Mattner kicked the ball after the siren started but before the siren stopped. Is there any official ruling on this kind of thing?

The reason the siren sounds for a length of time is to make sure the umpire hears it. Once the umpire acknowledges that he's heard the siren, it can stop sounding.

As has been pointed out, the quarter is over as soon as the umpire hears the siren. So in theory - i.e. if the umpire's ears are alert - that's as soon as the sound of the siren begins.

 

[macca23]

The reason the siren sounds for a length of time is to make sure the umpire hears it. Once the umpire acknowledges that he's heard the siren, it can stop sounding.

As has been pointed out, the quarter is over as soon as the umpire hears the siren. So in theory - i.e. if the umpire's ears are alert - that's as soon as the sound of the siren begins.

Nobody's that good, Dave.

It can never be instantaneous as the sound has to carry to the umpire. And as Nikki has rightly suggested, to the officiating umpire.

 

[Footyboy]

It wasn't a goal, if you were watching properly, you could just see the ball go thur just after the siren starts sounding.

Some Umpires would of given it, and some wouldn't, just unlucky, but that goal then no goal reply really hurt the players.

We probably would of lost anyway if that event didn't happen, but it certainly played a role of why we lost by so much.

 

[NikkiNoo]

the other concern I have regarding the umpiring decisions in this situation is if Mattner played on - was he called to play on? if not and the umpire blew the whistle for the mark with his hands in the air to halt play, then he should have been allowed to have another kick after the siren. If the umpire called play on then the issue comes back to who was the officiating umpire and who believed it to be after the siren. It will be interesting to note which of the umpires are umpiring next week from that game, although from what I understand there were some pretty shocking umpiring this round

 

[The Toolman]

the other concern I have regarding the umpiring decisions in this situation is if Mattner played on - was he called to play on? if not and the umpire blew the whistle for the mark with his hands in the air to halt play, then he should have been allowed to have another kick after the siren. If the umpire called play on then the issue comes back to who was the officiating umpire and who believed it to be after the siren. It will be interesting to note which of the umpires are umpiring next week from that game, although from what I understand there were some pretty shocking umpiring this round

Why are we nit picking this one? Mattner took a mark, decided to play on and before he got boot to ball, the siren blew. The officiating umpire obviously didn't hear the siren instantaneously, gave the goal umpire the all clear and it was signalled a goal. If another umpire has heard the siren earlier he has every right to over rule. The correct decision was made. The officiating umpire didn't make an error of judgement, he just heard it late. He was correctly over ruled....end of story. Why should an umpire be dropped for not hearing a siren?? And the umpiring in general was fine. The real problem is that Bulldogs supporters are so thick that they call for holding the ball every time their player even thinks about laying a tackle. And then they go off when nothing is paid. Players make mistakes. Umpires make mistakes. In general they umpire well.