Member of Public trying to obtain ASADA records of players

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Arctic fox

It's only a game
Mar 22, 2017
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Rubbish. You are questioning a panel of eminent legal minds who found the players contributed to their doping based on all the evidence. It wasn’t one thing that hung the players, it was many.
Replace "found" with guessed and I'll be comfortably satisfied.
 
Replace "found" with guessed and I'll be comfortably satisfied.
No guessing. It was more than comfortably satisfied but not beyond doubt. There was copious evidence that led pretty much everyone other than the blindfolded Essendon faithful to come to the same conclusion. But this has been done to death and I’m just going to leave this alone now.
 

Arctic fox

It's only a game
Mar 22, 2017
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No guessing. It was more than comfortably satisfied but not beyond doubt. There was copious evidence that led pretty much everyone other than the blindfolded Essendon faithful to come to the same conclusion. But this has been done to death and I’m just going to leave this alone now.
Evidence????? Goodbye.
 

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gavaniacono

Cancelled
Oct 7, 2014
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The players GUESSING what went into THEIR bodies, with no evident RECORDS from the club aparrent, was an error. But in the end they took responsibilty for what they took via penalties.

It is interesting to observe which parties are and aren't or were and weren't curious about the many details.

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The players GUESSING what went into THEIR bodies, with no evident RECORDS from the club aparrent, was an error. But in the end they took responsibilty for what they took via penalties.

It is interesting to observe which parties are and aren't or were and weren't curious about the many details.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

The only problem is CAS also guessed what went into the players bodies - And of course Dank was never found guilty of administering TB4 to players - Go figure !
 

gavaniacono

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Oct 7, 2014
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I think CAS did a bit more research into what happenened and asked more questions than players and club.

I have always been curious about Stephen at other clubs, and the AFLs governance checks of all clubs at the time. I remember reading some conclusions but not much else about the details.

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TTRRAAVVIISS

All Australian
Jun 24, 2014
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The only problem is CAS also guessed what went into the players bodies - And of course Dank was never found guilty of administering TB4 to players - Go figure !

Really? Your still stuck on this?

Just accept your club, and players, stuffed up royally which led to them “accidentally” doping. I’d be happy with that admission from die hard Dons supporters.

Then the AFL stuffed up royally in trying to help your club and players outta the s**t and avoid two year bans for the playing group.

The AFL tribunal even hired an ex county court Judge with a criminal background (beyond reasonable doubt) instead of a civil judge (balance of probabilities) Purely on the basis that a criminal judge has no expertise about the comfortably staisfide threshold.

If not for the egos and agendas of EFC key personal, and players to an extent, this whole saga could have been put to bed within 6 months. Coaching group and board should have resigned immediately and let new blood come in. Players should have taken their lumps and done a Cronulla. Copped 6 weeks for “maybe” “accidentally” doping. And got on with life. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

The fact players didn’t disclose the injections or medication to ASADA on their consent for drug testing forms suggests the players were told, or decided amongst themselves, not to draw attention to what medication they were doing. If the medication was not tb4 why not disclose it?

At its worst it indicates they knew they were doping and, like any other athlete doping, knew the risks and thought they wouldn’t get caught.

CAS didn’t guess s**t. They looked at all the evidence available and reached the conclusion that TB4 was compounded in Como, given to Dank and injected into the players.

You can shout at the sky all u want. CAS made the right call that any person with a non vested interest would have made.

Sadly, i fear you’ll keep howling at the moon and playing victim forever.
 
Really? Your still stuck on this?

Just accept your club, and players, stuffed up royally which led to them “accidentally” doping. I’d be happy with that admission from die hard Dons supporters.

Then the AFL stuffed up royally in trying to help your club and players outta the s**t and avoid two year bans for the playing group.

The AFL tribunal even hired an ex county court Judge with a criminal background (beyond reasonable doubt) instead of a civil judge (balance of probabilities) Purely on the basis that a criminal judge has no expertise about the comfortably staisfide threshold.

If not for the egos and agendas of EFC key personal, and players to an extent, this whole saga could have been put to bed within 6 months. Coaching group and board should have resigned immediately and let new blood come in. Players should have taken their lumps and done a Cronulla. Copped 6 weeks for “maybe” “accidentally” doping. And got on with life. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

The fact players didn’t disclose the injections or medication to ASADA on their consent for drug testing forms suggests the players were told, or decided amongst themselves, not to draw attention to what medication they were doing. If the medication was not tb4 why not disclose it?

At its worst it indicates they knew they were doping and, like any other athlete doping, knew the risks and thought they wouldn’t get caught.

CAS didn’t guess s**t. They looked at all the evidence available and reached the conclusion that TB4 was compounded in Como, given to Dank and injected into the players.

You can shout at the sky all u want. CAS made the right call that any person with a non vested interest would have made.

Sadly, i fear you’ll keep howling at the moon and playing victim forever.

I am stating a fact and not an opinion - Dank was never found guilty of administering TB4 to athletes - WADA appealed the decision from the AFL Anti-Doping Tribunal, but then mysteriously withdraw their appeal .

I will add that you continue to spout ill-informed propaganda - Example players never listed substances on their Doping Control Forms - Fact one is under the rules at the time, athletes were not compelled to list substances - Fact two is if you choose to list substances on a DCF, you have to actually be drug tested and only around 20 out of the 34 players were drug tested in that period - Fact three how do you list a substance on a DCF if you hadn't received an injection within the previous seven days - Do I need to go on ?
 
Apr 23, 2016
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CAS didn’t guess s**t. They looked at all the evidence available and reached the conclusion that TB4 was compounded in Como, given to Dank and injected into the players.

Whilst I actually agree that the whole thing was suspicious, overly drawn out, and the players would have been far better served by getting the same advice Cronulla did - and having the AFL not trying to meddle; CAS used a completely different burden of proof in order to effectively guess.

What the AFL tribunal concluded was under quite a different scenario, and I know someone quite close to one of those involved, who says the tribunal member understands how CAS came to a different decision given the differing requirements of the evidence presented.

The whole thing elicits too many emotional responses to have a reasonable discussion with most people about what are or aren’t facts; at the end of the day CAS has the authority to make a final decision and the players have served their sanction, few of the staff behind the scenes have survived with their reputations, and the only person to really get out of the whole thing seemingly unscathed was Robinson.
 

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Jul 2, 2007
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No guessing. It was more than comfortably satisfied but not beyond doubt. There was copious evidence that led pretty much everyone other than the blindfolded Essendon faithful to come to the same conclusion. But this has been done to death and I’m just going to leave this alone now.

TIL David Jones (retired County Court judge), John Nixon (retired County Court judge) and Wayne Henwood (barrister with Owen Dixon Chambers) were blindfolded Essendon faithful.
 
Yaco, appreciate you are wanting to set the facts straight as you see them.

But at the end of the day, the general public sees the CAS findings of guilty and the player suspensions as proof there were peds used on the premises by players.

Nothing else matters now.

What you and think is irrelevant as it is opinion - But facts are indisputable.
 
Whilst I actually agree that the whole thing was suspicious, overly drawn out, and the players would have been far better served by getting the same advice Cronulla did - and having the AFL not trying to meddle; CAS used a completely different burden of proof in order to effectively guess.

What the AFL tribunal concluded was under quite a different scenario, and I know someone quite close to one of those involved, who says the tribunal member understands how CAS came to a different decision given the differing requirements of the evidence presented.

The whole thing elicits too many emotional responses to have a reasonable discussion with most people about what are or aren’t facts; at the end of the day CAS has the authority to make a final decision and the players have served their sanction, few of the staff behind the scenes have survived with their reputations, and the only person to really get out of the whole thing seemingly unscathed was Robinson.
“Good Stuff” Goodwin now coaches the Dees.
 

sosos

Premiership Player
Apr 5, 2007
4,689
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Carlton
What you and think is irrelevant as it is opinion - But facts are indisputable.
Oldmansshakesfistatcloud.gif

Irrelevant? Seriously? You think that in 2018, your agitation will achieve a mistrial, Hird's reinstatement?

I'm putting words in your mouth but no amount of quibbling weasel words changes the incontrevertible fact that the general public have seen and heard enough to be comfortably satisfied that peds were used at Essendon.
 

Arctic fox

It's only a game
Mar 22, 2017
878
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Out west
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Oldmansshakesfistatcloud.gif

Irrelevant? Seriously? You think that in 2018, your agitation will achieve a mistrial, Hird's reinstatement?

I'm putting words in your mouth but no amount of quibbling weasel words changes the incontrevertible fact that the general public have seen and heard enough to be comfortably satisfied that peds were used at Essendon.
Yet there is still debate amongst many whether TB4 is a PED. Some say that aiding an injury is not PE.
But it's on the WADA list so it must be. Right?
 

TTRRAAVVIISS

All Australian
Jun 24, 2014
746
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Collingwood
Yet there is still debate amongst many whether TB4 is a PED. Some say that aiding an injury is not PE.
But it's on the WADA list so it must be. Right?

Sadly, I was right. You’ve chosen the howl at the moon and to play the victim forever more option.

As a Collingwood fan i don’t defend Thomas or Keefe. They “accidentally” doped by taking cocaine laced with cherobutenal or whatever it’s called. Idiots tried the “it was the nz meat” excuse for a while. In the end they fessed up, took their lumps and sat out their punishment.

And the game was better off for it. Honestly, the way everyone at EFC kicked and screamed for 3 years is a ******* disgrace. They made a s**t situation a million times worse and brought the league into disrepute. The club should have been booted from the league for the way they behaved.

I could be on here defending thomas and keefe to the hilt, “oh fact is they didn’t mean to cheat, fact is some irrelevant academic theorises that Asadas testing procedures were deficient... oh and there’s debate over whether cherabutenal is even performance enhancing... Yada yada yada”.

Fact is they made a bad decision that cost them 2 years of their career. Same as the EFC players. Rambling on like a friggin lunatic ain’t gonna change that fact.
 
Oldmansshakesfistatcloud.gif

Irrelevant? Seriously? You think that in 2018, your agitation will achieve a mistrial, Hird's reinstatement?

I'm putting words in your mouth but no amount of quibbling weasel words changes the incontrevertible fact that the general public have seen and heard enough to be comfortably satisfied that peds were used at Essendon.
i wrote an indisputable fact that Dank was never found guilty by an Anti Doping Tribunal of giving any athletes TB4. Now of course he was found guilty of giving athletes other banned substances and was accordingly punished.

What opinion you or me or Joe Public or Mary Public have on a subject is an opinion and not of great importance in the wider world.

Let's hope you can differentiate between fact and opinion.


Sent from my SM-G9250 using Tapatalk
 

TTRRAAVVIISS

All Australian
Jun 24, 2014
746
1,299
AFL Club
Collingwood
It was at the time.

“but this substance isn’t really a PED, it just aides with recovery”... Classic doping apologist logic. Pretty sure Ben Johnson (the sprinter) has tried this argument at some point.

TB4 is still a prohibited substance in and out of competition. If you’re an athlete under the WADA code you can never legally take TB4.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/content...rowth-factors-related-substances-and-mimetics

And let’s not forget 2 EFC players urine samples were found to have unusually high levels of Tb4. Only good old EFC had the arrogance, stupidity and contempt for the AFL, ASADA and WADA to question the validity of these urine tests. “Oh yeah those urine tests, yeah well WADA don’t even know what those tests are, they can’t even explain the data, it’s an anomaly that’s easily explained” ... the lance Armstrong method of argument.

But you know, dopers gunna dope like dickhead EFC supporters gunna dickhead.

“Dank never got found guilty so that means players are innocent”... perhaps ASADA and WADA have limited funding. Perhaps they need to use their resources carefully, and to go after athletes that allow (deliberately or accidentally) prohibited substances into their body. Buck stops with the athlete and always will.
 

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