Analysis On-field Mental Toughness

[Soapy V]

We have a thread on this board regarding mental health, it would be pretty poor if we started calling out posters or factions as mentally weak

Just a thought

Mental Health is completely different to Mental Weakness

 

[SurreyBlue]

I don't have the words to properly describe how much I agree with this statement

Give it a ‘love’ emoti Soap. I did.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I confess I am mentally weak .

After one game I have reacted emotionally & I demand each of the below!!!

I want the coach sacked
I want to melt my membership
I am melting myself
I want us to be called “The Oranges”
We should relocate to Auckland
We should get rid of all of our players
I want a new board - not an old one - give me generation “ now”.
I want ice cream….
I want us to know how shit we are & keep telling ourselves we are shit for eternity.
I want to punish myself!!!!!

 

[agro]

Confidence, arrogance, beers at Naughtons after training, perhaps even on a Friday night before Saturday Afternoon’s game - an 8 goal third quarter blitz after being down by 3 goals at half time - call it what you will - but we were mentally tough whichever way you look at it - we are not now.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Confidence, arrogance, beers at Naughtons after training, perhaps even on a Friday night before Saturday Afternoon’s game - an 8 goal third quarter blitz after being down by 3 goals at half time - call it what you will - but we were mentally tough whichever way you look at it - we are not now.

Ok - stop looking for likes and even worse depressing me and getting me angry. If only our boys feel the same.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Our team plays like it has PTSD.
Crumbles under pressure.
Panics and loses ability to perform basic skills.
Plays for frees instead of the ball.
Plans and structures go out the window.
Players stop playing for the team and start only playing for themselves.

Coming up with a solid gameplan that works in modern footy, along with different modes and training in scenarios are awesome.
But even if we got that tomorrow and had ample time to lock it in, along with a coaching panel that actually makes smart moves in-game, how long does it take to coach this debilitating fear out of them? It's been in there a long time now.

 

[Arr0w]

Mental Health is completely different to Mental Weakness

It's not actually

 

[Soapy V]

It's not actually

As someone who works in it, is Ex Army and supports many Veterans I can there is a major difference

Having or suffering from Mental Health issues has NOTHING to do with being Mentally Weak. Any Psychiatrist or Psychologist will tell you this

 

[Aphrodite]

Play nice thanks folks!

 

[Osc1]

Resilience may be the word everyone is looking for.

 

[Arr0w]

As someone who works in it, is Ex Army and supports many Veterans I can there is a major difference

Having or suffering from Mental Health issues has NOTHING to do with being Mentally Weak. Any Psychiatrist or Psychologist will tell you this

Varying degrees Soap

But we have deflected away from the topic

How do you judge if a player or group is mentally weak or strong

What do you believe are those measures

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Mental Health is completely different to Mental Weakness

100%. One can't be helped, while the other is a state of mind and willingness to work.

I'd say that any player that has a natural disposition to quit when things gets to hard, or panic under pressure, isn't too long for the AFL.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Varying degrees Soap

But we have deflected away from the topic

How do you judge if a player or group is mentally weak or strong

What do you believe are those measures

What happened Thursday night with the skill errors under perceived pressure, is a good case study. We haven't seen it that pronounced before, so we don't know whether this was a default setting, or just an attitude that we had things under control, and being unable to stem the tide once we had switched off.

I'd consider switching off to be a sign of mental weakness too.

 

[Arr0w]

I'd say that any player that has a natural disposition to quit when things gets to hard, or panic under pressure, isn't too long for the AFL.

Good starting point to explore

If we concede that the playing group was largely the same in the back half of 2023 to now, were they mentally strong when we were on a run, winning close games, etc and now deemed to be mentally weak?

I sense using these terms at times are somewhat clickbait, like winning/losing culture

Anyway, if Mods are happy with the name of this thread, so be it

 

[bradfisher14]

What measure are you judging this by, have you sat down with an individual or group to determine their mental state?

Surely there are better measures

The only relevant measure for this is win/loss. Everything else is worthless to me.

I'm sure if I sat down with every player on our list and every staff member at the club, they would tell me that winning a premiership means everything to them. Their actions over a number of years tells me the otherwise.

Probably more appropriate I'd say, as at least we can assess with slightly more evidence rather making assumptions

Personally, I think it's rather inappropriate.

We have a thread on this board regarding mental health, it would be pretty poor if we started calling out posters or factions as mentally weak

Just a thought

I understand where you're coming from with this. However, I would hope that everyone can see that I am clearly referring to the team's mentality as it manifests in our on-field performance.

While mental health is clearly important, the reality is that the AFL is a brutally competitive environment. Only the strong survive. If our footy club is so fragile and require coddling to the point where we can't discuss their resilience, we have way more problems than I fear.

 

[gbatman]

Don't mistake physical exhaustion for players being mentally weak and not having a go.

When you can't score you burn out. You can't defend all game and if you pump it in there 65 times and get next to nothing out of it you will see the defenders and mids not really having a go. Because they are exhausted.

Footy is a game where if you find yourself chasing arse for too long in breaks you physically and mentally.

Until we can get the ball inside our forward line and either keep it there by scoring or through defensive acts then we are in big big trouble.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

It’s a cheap comparison, but 18 year old draftees today are vastly different (less resilient) from those in the 80’s, 90’s and early 2000’s.

And the aura of Michael Voss probably means very little to a kid born in 2007.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Good starting point to explore

If we concede that the playing group was largely the same in the back half of 2023 to now, were they mentally strong when we were on a run, winning close games, etc and now deemed to be mentally weak?

I sense using these terms at times is somewhat clickbait, like winning/losing culture

Anyway, if Mods are happy with the name of this thread, so be it

There are so many variables. Confidence breeds confidence. They got in a run and even when challenged, they trusted each other enough that they could flick a switch. There were some late signs coming into finals that things were deteriorating. Gold Coast really challenged us and GWS beat us. In the finals Swans charged back at us, but Melbourne were the ones who fell apart in the Semi. I feel our whole game plan changed over this period too. It was slowly being picked apart.

Confidence and attitude are fickle things. You just need to lose a tiny bit of confidence in one or two teammates, and suddenly you aren't using them as much, or you aren't running on because you don't trust them to secure possession, and hey presto ... we fall apart all over the field.

How do we make it so everybody stays positive and works hard for each other?

 

[Soapy V]

What happened Thursday night with the skill errors under perceived pressure, is a good case study. We haven't seen it that pronounced before, so we don't know whether this was a default setting, or just an attitude that we had things under control, and being unable to stem the tide once we had switched off.

I'd consider switching off to be a sign of mental weakness too.

We haven't? I think there is a lot of evidence otherwise. This is so much more than one game

As Agro suggested this is culture and history as well.

 

[Robertio]

I confess I am mentally weak .

After one game I have reacted emotionally & I demand each of the below!!!

I want the coach sacked
I want to melt my membership
I am melting myself
I want us to be called “The Oranges”
We should relocate to Auckland
We should get rid of all of our players
I want a new board - not an old one - give me generation “ now”.
I want ice cream….
I want us to know how shit we are & keep telling ourselves we are shit for eternity.
I want to punish myself!!!!!

Guinness can fix all that mate, just make sure you have plenty.

 

[Soapy V]

It’s a cheap comparison, but 18 year old draftees today are vastly different (less resilient) from those in the 80’s, 90’s and early 2000’s.

And the aura of Michael Voss probably means very little to a kid born in 2007.

I think as a whole you may be right but there is are still young players today that I would argue are as resilient as any from former eras

The issue for us at the moment is the lack of ability to fight games out and how we as a group fold under very little pressure from the opposition. IMO that is the very definition of being Mentally Weak

 

[Soapy V]

There are so many variables. Confidence breeds confidence. They got in a run and even when challenged, they trusted each other enough that they could flick a switch. There were some late signs coming into finals that things were deteriorating. Gold Coast really challenged us and GWS beat us. In the finals Swans charged back at us, but Melbourne were the ones who fell apart in the Semi. I feel our whole game plan changed over this period too. It was slowly being picked apart.

Confidence and attitude are fickle things. You just need to lose a tiny bit of confidence in one or two teammates, and suddenly you aren't using them as much, or you aren't running on because you don't trust them to secure possession, and hey presto ... we fall apart all over the field.

How do we make it so everybody stays positive and works hard for each other?

Momentum is a crazy thing. We rode it and were great. Haven't been close since

 

[Stamos]

Everything I've seen in footy points to limited scope to improve mental strength. Some players have it, others don't. Those who don't might go on hot patches, particularly if in a strong team, but it's not sustainable long term.

I don’t agree at all, but in the context of this thread, we’re talking about the collective, not an individual.
And it absolutely can turn around.

Richmond is a great example.
After 3 years of making finals and losing diabolically (5th losing to 8th and 9th, and the Port fiasco), they dropped to 13th in 2016. Got smashed by the Crows in round 6 2017, and then lost their next 3 games by less than a kick (including to teams who finished 10th and 14th).
From there, something clicked. They only lost 3 games for the rest of the season, and dominated the next 3 years.

If you want to put it on an individual, then Trent Cotchin. Triple premiership captain, all time Tiger great.
Chooses to kick against the wind against Port in 2014 so they could be 7 goals down at quarter time.

Absolutely players, and teams, can toughen up mentally. We need to.

 

[Soapy V]

I don’t agree at all, but in the context of this thread, we’re talking about the collective, not an individual.
And it absolutely can turn around.

Richmond is a great example.
After 3 years of making finals and losing diabolically (5th losing to 8th and 9th, and the Port fiasco), they dropped to 13th in 2016. Got smashed by the Crows in round 6 2017, and then lost their next 3 games by less than a kick (including to teams who finished 10th and 14th).
From there, something clicked. They only lost 3 games for the rest of the season, and dominated the next 3 years.

If you want to put it on an individual, then Trent Cotchin. Triple premiership captain, all time Tiger great.
Chooses to kick against the wind against Port in 2014 so they could be 7 goals down at quarter time.

Absolutely players, and teams, can toughen up mentally. We need to.

Exactly. and for it to change it needs to come from the top.

 

[agro]

We haven't? I think there is a lot of evidence otherwise. This is so much more than one game

As Agro suggested this is culture and history as well.

As I was trying express (probably poorly) once upon a time, when another side faced the White Club Monogram on the Navy Blue guernsey they were half beaten, now they aren’t.