Analysis On-field Mental Toughness

[JustaBattler]

Wide grounds assist defensive game styles. Teams like us who strive to keep things congested, wide grounds assist with that. We can keep the ball wide, stops opposition teams running rings around us as. Also if our defensive structures are good and we can push opposition wide, we get more bang for our buck. Getting the ball wide on the Adelaide oval, it's like having they ball on centre wing at the MCG. The ball is still central and most plays at an oval like that are direct play.

Direct play suites quicker sides which is the Crows and not us. Wide play, boundary side play, that suites us and we can really get a lot out of it by keeping the ball wide and a wide ground. You really get hemmed in and it adds an extra kick if you get wide on the MCG.

This is literally where home ground advantage comes from. Ground width is massive, changes the style of play significantly.

Narrow grounds aint our jam. Get quicker, become a running side, that changes.

not sure about the topological argument you are making there GB.

1. From memory the widest difference between the narrowest and widest ground is ~ 10 meters max?
2. I would imagine width favours faster teams who can make space either on the flanks with outside run (eg Collingwood Geelong and even St Kilda like playing along the boundaries ) at any rate teh old take what the opposition are giving you as pretty much a given
3. If you argument continues to be that Carlton is relatively slower all over the ground - any more space is a disadvantage at the margin.

If your argument is that Carlton favours playing down the boundary for safety to marking players and then contests- that is pretty much SOP for any team that has middle of ground denied due to defensive set up at any point in time - however middle of ground space is more the wider ( and longer) a ground is.

As far as middle of ground play goes- it is pretty obvious the team has been coached to try for middle play as much as possible this year. I don't see strong evidence that the game plan is 'heavy' on contested ball and light on run - I guess the St Kilda game is the most recent example of more contested style- however that was Ross Lyon's call this was made clear from both coaches in their after game commentary, Lyon stated that a couple of his mids peformed well against Walsh #1 pick and Cerra #6 pick - which wss funny BS because Cerra was playing HBF for 3/4 pof the game after McGovern and Cowan became indisposed - not that this was required for anyone watching the game - Voss clearly out-coached him last weekend.

 

[gbatman]

not sure about the topological argument you are making there GB.

1. From memory the widest difference between the narrowest and widest ground is ~ 10 meters max?
2. I would imagine width favours faster teams who can make space either on the flanks with outside run (eg Collingwood Geelong and even St Kilda like playing along the boundaries ) at any rate teh old take what the opposition are giving you as pretty much a given
3. If you argument continues to be that Carlton is relatively slower all over the ground - any more space is a disadvantage at the margin.

If your argument is that Carlton favours playing down the boundary for safety to marking players and then contests- that is pretty much SOP for any team that has middle of ground denied due to defensive set up at any point in time - however middle of ground space is more the wider ( and longer) a ground is.

As far as middle of ground play goes- it is pretty obvious the team has been coached to try for middle play as much as possible this year. I don't see strong evidence that the game plan is 'heavy' on contested ball and light on run - I guess the St Kilda game is the most recent example of more contested style- however that was Ross Lyon's call this was made clear from both coaches in their after game commentary, Lyon stated that a couple of his mids peformed well against Walsh #1 pick and Cerra #6 pick - which wss funny BS because Cerra was playing HBF for 3/4 pof the game after McGovern and Cowan became indisposed - not that this was required for anyone watching the game - Voss clearly out-coached him last weekend.

18 meters difference between Adelaide oval and MCG. Width allows wide play boundary play, allows you to corner your opposition and get them further from home. "box them in". Narrow grounds force teams to play direct footy.

There is more space, but teams have to be able to use it. Yes we have been cut up on the G but we get cut up way more on narrower grounds where the game is forced to be more direct. The way teams zone and push from one side to the other, there isn't really more space, but you do get boxed in more on wide grounds. It's the next kick on a wide ground where the space disappears due to the angle and being further from home.

 

[Blue since 72]

Re the mental side of the game, i’m wondering if legacy is a large issue for the current playing group.

Most recent and obvious is the passing of Buzz and Walls.The expectation from many is that the players honour their legacy with stirring wins.

Aside from this we have the storied history of a large original club connected to many aspects of life outside its walls, a large supporter base baying for success and an endless procession of past greats in and around the place trying to inspire the current group with feats of daring do in years past and the club itself actively promoting this.

While this is seen as a good thing and I largely believe it is, the current playing group need to make sure this history doesn’t spend too much time in their heads. As Voss has said they need to make their own history.

Living up to expectation can be a heavy burden to carry if you let it.

Anyhoo just a dodgey opinion.

 

[BlueTongue]

Re the mental side of the game, i’m wondering if legacy is a large issue for the current playing group.

Most recent and obvious is the passing of Buzz and Walls.The expectation from many is that the players honour their legacy with stirring wins.

Aside from this we have the storied history of a large original club connected to many aspects of life outside its walls, a large supporter base baying for success and an endless procession of past greats in and around the place trying to inspire the current group with feats of daring do in years past and the club itself actively promoting this.

While this is seen as a good thing and I largely believe it is, the current playing group need to make sure this history doesn’t spend too much time in their heads. As Voss has said they need to make their own history.

Living up to expectation can be a heavy burden to carry if you let it.

Anyhoo just a dodgey opinion.

Without any doubt it is.

BUT, it's not like Players & Coaches of the last 30 years haven't known what they are coming into, yet they were still happy to take the risk and take the money.

EDIT: In fact, if a few more players had simply said, the mental stress of expectation is not worth the money, and left, the club might have had a deeper look into it's Culture.

 

[SirSanchez]

Wasn’t sure where to put this but this thread seems appropriate.

Saw this article on the AFL site today.
Not saying our team should go out and be thugs and get suspended. But to not have 1 of our players out for rough conduct suggests to me that we don’t play hard enough. It’s a fine line I know but we’re nowhere near it in terms of aggression for the contest and protecting our team / teammates.

 

[Les Grossman playaaaa]

Wasn’t sure where to put this but this thread seems appropriate.

Saw this article on the AFL site today.
Not saying our team should go out and be thugs and get suspended. But to not have 1 of our players out for rough conduct suggests to me that we don’t play hard enough. It’s a fine line I know but we’re nowhere near it in terms of aggression for the contest and protecting our team / teammates.

View attachment 2320152

This CLOWN keeps trying...............





but, you know................

 

[bradfisher14]

How do we fix this?

Can it be fixed?

Are players born with composure or can they grow it with practice?

 

[Stamos]

How do we fix this?

Can it be fixed?

Are players born with composure or can they grow it with practice?

I think the best way is to have a solid foundation to fall back on.
Do the fundamentals properly.
Drill them.
That’s what the Filth do.

 

[bradfisher14]

I think the best way is to have a solid foundation to fall back on.
Do the fundamentals properly.
Drill them.
That’s what the Filth do.

I agree.

But I would argue that the key difference between us and them is the ability to execute those fundamentals under pressure.

Did their players get drafted with that ability or can you develop it?

The truth for us is probably a bit of both - we need to draft more players with the required composure and do a better job of developing that quality in the players that we already have on the list.

 

[Stamos]

I agree.

But I would argue that the key difference between us and them is the ability to execute those fundamentals under pressure.

Did their players get drafted with that ability or can you develop it?

The truth for us is probably a bit of both - we need to draft more players with the required composure and do a better job of developing that quality in the players that we already have on the list.

It is trained.
While some players have that ability, a team won’t without it being drilled into them. Onfield leadership certainly helps.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I think the best way is to have a solid foundation to fall back on.
Do the fundamentals properly.
Drill them.
That’s what the Filth do.

It’s more than just training the fundamentals which I’m sure Voss and co are doing with the players. The bigger issue is being able to stay focussed in the moment. Block out the external noise, that is the crowd cheering, the scoreboard, the opponent getting momentum, the consequences of a mistake or a loss. IMO not enough of our players have that focus.

 

[bradfisher14]

It’s more than just training the fundamentals which I’m sure Voss and co are doing with the players.

How can you be sure of this?

What evidence is there to suggest that they train the fundamentals?

I haven’t seen any improvement in that area since Voss took over. If anything, I would say we are a less skilful team than the Teague years.

 

[JustOneTime]

It’s more than just training the fundamentals which I’m sure Voss and co are doing with the players. The bigger issue is being able to stay focussed in the moment. Block out the external noise, that is the crowd cheering, the scoreboard, the opponent getting momentum, the consequences of a mistake or a loss. IMO not enough of our players have that focus.

I'm not sure this is right given the prelim final with mostly the same group. This team can play and win; i just think Vossy and the teams meddling is killing us.

That prelim run season there is enough reference that the players met and dropped any pretext of Vossy gameplan and just gave it a red hot go which actually resulted in committed overlap run and wins.

Then the season ends, Vossy and his crew go back to work on gameplan pre-season stuff, take the initiative away from the players, and we fail again.

 

[Beyond Blue]

How can you be sure of this?

What evidence is there to suggest that they train the fundamentals?

I haven’t seen any improvement in that area since Voss took over. If anything, I would say we are a less skilful team than the Teague years.

Voss is a 280 plus game legend of the game coached by arguably the most successful figure in the game ever. It’s naive to think he wouldn’t value the fundamentals IMO.

That said, after a reserves loss this year, Lonergan in the post game assessment talked about the importance of getting the fundamentals right (see below).

What they said: Lonergan sums up VFL Round 4

Tom Lonergan spoke following a narrow VFL loss for the Carlton Reserves.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[branedotorg]

Bump

 

[Beyond Blue]

do not have

 

[WyntersGame_]

I don’t think it’s just mental toughness. The bigger issue is we don’t seem to have a plan when things stop going our way. Today was the same problems we’ve seen under this coaching team for a while. If you rely on one game plan and individual brilliance, you’re going to struggle — you can’t expect players to create miracles/ luck every play.

 

[Beyond Blue]

I don’t think it’s just mental toughness. The bigger issue is we don’t seem to have a plan when things stop going our way. Today was the same problems we’ve seen under this coaching team for a while. If you rely on one game plan and individual brilliance, you’re going to struggle — you can’t expect players to create miracles/ luck every play.

Agree with that. Cripps and Hewett are our 2 best clearances players and they were nowhere to be seen in the theirs when they got a run on. They should have been straight in the middle after they kicked 2 in a row.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

We have it for 2.5qts then it disappears…..ffs why?
That is the question

 

[Kruezing]

We have it for 2.5qts then it disappears…..ffs why?
That is the question

I don’t think we have it all

 

[GT619]

We have it for 2.5qts then it disappears…..ffs why?
That is the question

We will never know. Theres gotta be a circuit breaker

 

[SirSanchez]

We have it for 2.5qts then it disappears…..ffs why?
That is the question

Better than last year we only had it for 1 quarter.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Did anyone hear Rory Sloane

9

Rory Sloane

Age

36

Ht

183cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.7

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

11.9

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

6.6

5star

CL

5.7

5star

D

15.3

4star

K

7.3

3star

HB

8.0

4star

M

1.3

1star

T

3.3

4star

CL

4.2

5star

D

22.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

13.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

6.0

5star

CL

4.6

5star

talk about hie Carlton and its supporters build up every game as must win/do or die and it’s mentally exhausting.

Suggested Voss should take this week as low key quiet build up.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Did anyone hear Rory Sloane talk about hie Carlton and its supporters build up every game as must win/do or die and it’s mentally exhausting.

Suggested Voss should take this week as low key quiet build up.

I think it's most of us supporters that build up every game as do or die. Voss has always spoken about getting the process right and the results will take of themselves. We got it right for 2 qtrs and 5 mins of the 3rd then the mental demons kicked in.

 

[David Sylvian]

Mental toughness comes down to On-field leadership, not just from the captain but on each line, it looked like a herd mentality took over at half time, not just in this game but last year too.
Cripps was looked for and wasn’t able to organise or deliver.
I’ve seen this before when a player ie Walsh is seen as a defacto leader to the younger playing group and the seniors sticking with the old guard, it’s not deliberate it’s a natural progression, the club needs to recognise this and fast.
Thank Cripps for all his efforts and move the captaincy on, refresh the line leadership and drill accordingly. Unfortunately the coach has leaned into the old guard.
My only hope is CD and GW see this and step in.
If they don’t I will retire in the next couple of years and can give them plenty of unsolicited advice from the second row of whichever stadium we are playing at.