Analysis On-field Mental Toughness

[Beyond Blue]

Evidence?
We’re imagining, right?

I do not understand what you mean by this. If you mean Voss is a shitty boss who has not defended Harry for his faux pas over the year then I do not understand. If you mean Voss was wrong for telling Harry off for playing like a lightweight against Richmond then I also do not understand. Please explain?

 

[MacReady]

I do not understand what you mean by this. If you mean Voss is a shitty boss who has not defended Harry for his faux pas over the year then I do not understand. If you mean Voss was wrong for telling Harry off for playing like a lightweight against Richmond then I also do not understand. Please explain?

How do we know that Voss said that to Harry after the Tigers loss?

 

[AB_Blue]

Yes and behind the goals camera footage will be interesting. He seems to be calling someone out there.

The time is now for Jacob to call out his fellow senior players for the abhorrent efforts they put in behind the ball

Doc, Gov shouldn’t be in this team….senior players unwilling to put their body on the line

Haynes although didn’t really do much wrong is just another stop gap average footballer

We have pissed this rebuild up against the wall


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[Pixelshooter]

Doc, Gov shouldn’t be in this team….senior players unwilling to put their body on the line

A couple of times during the game I watched Doc in isolation...he's a senior player and spent much of the time just wandering aimlessly. Didn't ever play on anyone and didn't even really create space. At this point other teams wouldn't mind him getting the ball. It's either a sign he's confused with his role, he has zero confidence, or he's checked out.

Haynes although didn’t really do much wrong is just another stop gap average footballer

Haynes is actually a good player...but anyone would struggle with our setup at the moment.

 

[Stamos]

How do we know that Voss said that to Harry after the Tigers loss?

We’re imagining

 

[bourbons]

Mentally weak no doubt, but there has to be fitness component in there too?

That high performance bloke we poached from Sydney really paying off lol

 

[Bale Dup]

IMHO, in reference to mental weakness.

Every opposition team's players know they are a chance against us. They are coached accordingly, and their "belief" they can beat us through persistence is strong.

Unfortunately, our guys know this as well, deep down, which is why, when they are challenged, the doubt kicks in hard, and the rest is history.

We have the opposition grow with confidence during the game while ours diminishes.

Belief. Very powerful both ways.
Opposition teams against us have it in spades.
Our players' belief in themselves and what they are doing out there is drastically low, if not non-existent.

Why is this happening? I don't know. My guess is they don't agree with the game plan or Vossy himself.


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[Monty1978]

Soft as butter comes to mind and clubs openly dissing us has to stop… players need to stand up to that crap … after the games talking about how we are crap or will get tired or whatever , where is the line in the sand moment with the guys … sack another coach so they get a reprieve

 

[Beyond Blue]

IMHO, in reference to mental weakness.

Every opposition team's players know they are a chance against us. They are coached accordingly, and their "belief" they can beat us through persistence is strong.

Unfortunately, our guys know this as well, deep down, which is why, when they are challenged, the doubt kicks in hard, and the rest is history.

We have the opposition grow with confidence during the game while ours diminishes.

Belief. Very powerful both ways.
Opposition teams against us have it in spades.
Our players' belief in themselves and what they are doing out there is drastically low, if not non-existent.

And it would also extend that so many players having pretty happy memories of playing Carlton. Pendlebury and Sidebottom just love playing against us. They could play til they are 60 if they only had to play against us. No matter how badly out of form he is Crisp will always play well against us too. Membrey the same. Hawthorn just love playing us, guys like Mitchell, Gunston and Breust have barely ever lost to us. Laird from the Crows.Ironically when Gov played for the Crows he dined out on us. Pretty much every club other than Essendon, Gold Coast and Fremantle really.

Why is this happening? I don't know. My guess is they don't agree with the game plan or Vossy himself.

Agreed with everything you said until this bit. That is a just a cop out for the players. This excuse was made for them with Bolton and Teague before Voss. The players are the common denominator. The players are the biggest part of the problem.

 

[Bale Dup]

And it would also extend that so many players having pretty happy memories of playing Carlton. Pendlebury and Sidebottom just love playing against us. They could play til they are 60 if they only had to play against us. No matter how badly out of form he is Crisp will always play well against us too. Membrey the same. Hawthorn just love playing us, guys like Mitchell, Gunston and Breust have barely ever lost to us. Laird from the Crows.Ironically when Gov played for the Crows he dined out on us. Pretty much every club other than Essendon, Gold Coast and Fremantle really.


Agreed with everything you said until this bit. That is a just a cop out for the players. This excuse was made for them with Bolton and Teague before Voss. The players are the common denominator. The players are the biggest part of the problem.

Where did I say it's an excuse and where did I say the players aren't the problem?

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[bigblueboy]

And it would also extend that so many players having pretty happy memories of playing Carlton. Pendlebury and Sidebottom just love playing against us. They could play til they are 60 if they only had to play against us. No matter how badly out of form he is Crisp will always play well against us too. Membrey the same. Hawthorn just love playing us, guys like Mitchell, Gunston and Breust have barely ever lost to us. Laird from the Crows.Ironically when Gov played for the Crows he dined out on us. Pretty much every club other than Essendon, Gold Coast and Fremantle really.


Agreed with everything you said until this bit. That is a just a cop out for the players. This excuse was made for them with Bolton and Teague before Voss. The players are the common denominator. The players are the biggest part of the problem.

this ^^

 

[jd2010]

Losing has seeped into this clubs veins this century.

As a club we celebrate individual accolades more than ever.

In the 20th century you know who used to do that? Basket cases like Fitzroy, South Melbourne and St Kilda. All the brownlows and Coleman medals under the sun but never anything of substance as a team or club. That's us now.

We grasp at such stupid pointless little things as a collective too. Some of the circle jerk for the efforts of Nick Austin the last couple of years was nauseating to read. No other club jumps to a conclusion that a list managers nailed it than we do. And then when the rubber hits the road and the list is assembled to win and it's really tested, it's actually really shit. Outside the best 6, it's actually really ordinary, no match winners, nobody to turn a game or have big game winning moments if Cripps, Curnow or Weitering are quiet. So the mental weakness is club wide, us as fans too.

We all love Crippa. 2x brownlow medalist. Tries his guts out. But he's on track to take the mantle as The Biggest Loser % off other club great Kade Simpson.

Mental weakness is there but I think it's hard wired into these guys after they're drafted into the 21st century's basket case, some of it comes from poor easy selections of "nice" guys and no grunt. But some of its just Carlton!

 

[Beyond Blue]

Losing has seeped into this clubs veins this century.

As a club we celebrate individual accolades more than ever.

In the 20th century you know who used to do that? Basket cases like Fitzroy, South Melbourne and St Kilda. All the brownlows and Coleman medals under the sun but never anything of substance as a team or club. That's us now.

We grasp at such stupid pointless little things as a collective too. Some of the circle jerk for the efforts of Nick Austin the last couple of years was nauseating to read. No other club jumps to a conclusion that a list managers nailed it than we do. And then when the rubber hits the road and the list is assembled to win and it's really tested, it's actually really shit. Outside the best 6, it's actually really ordinary, no match winners, nobody to turn a game or have big game winning moments if Cripps, Curnow or Weitering are quiet. So the mental weakness is club wide, us as fans too.

We all love Crippa. 2x brownlow medalist. Tries his guts out. But he's on track to take the mantle as The Biggest Loser % off other club great Kade Simpson.

Mental weakness is there but I think it's hard wired into these guys after they're drafted into the 21st century's basket case, some of it comes from poor easy selections of "nice" guys and no grunt. But some of its just Carlton!

Great post and it’s not hyperbole as no doubt a lot of club apologists will point to. The comparison to Fitzroy and South Melbourne is not unreasonable. The club needs to sort itself out and fast. From the outside looking in we are light years behind other clubs. Cook has brought soon semblance stability but now Wright has to find a way to course correct without completely blowing things up completely because we simply cannot go through another rebuild. You can only sell hope for so long. At some point the fans will stop paying for memberships and then the club will be in a death spiral.

 

[jd2010]

Great post and it’s not hyperbole as no doubt a lot of club apologists will point to. The comparison to Fitzroy and South Melbourne is not unreasonable. The club needs to sort itself out and fast. From the outside looking in we are light years behind other clubs. Cook has brought soon semblance stability but now Wright has to find a way to course correct without completely blowing things up completely because we simply cannot go through another rebuild. You can only sell hope for so long. At some point the fans will stop paying for memberships and then the club will be in a death spiral.

Even the Cook appointment was classic Carlton clutching at straws

Let's get a guy who retired and was done with that part of his life, to come back for a few years, for likely mainly monetary reasons

 

[Soapy V]

Losing has seeped into this clubs veins this century.

As a club we celebrate individual accolades more than ever.

In the 20th century you know who used to do that? Basket cases like Fitzroy, South Melbourne and St Kilda. All the brownlows and Coleman medals under the sun but never anything of substance as a team or club. That's us now.

We grasp at such stupid pointless little things as a collective too. Some of the circle jerk for the efforts of Nick Austin the last couple of years was nauseating to read. No other club jumps to a conclusion that a list managers nailed it than we do. And then when the rubber hits the road and the list is assembled to win and it's really tested, it's actually really shit. Outside the best 6, it's actually really ordinary, no match winners, nobody to turn a game or have big game winning moments if Cripps, Curnow or Weitering are quiet. So the mental weakness is club wide, us as fans too.

We all love Crippa. 2x brownlow medalist. Tries his guts out. But he's on track to take the mantle as The Biggest Loser % off other club great Kade Simpson.

Mental weakness is there but I think it's hard wired into these guys after they're drafted into the 21st century's basket case, some of it comes from poor easy selections of "nice" guys and no grunt. But some of its just Carlton!

POTY

 

[Soapy V]

Great post and it’s not hyperbole as no doubt a lot of club apologists will point to. The comparison to Fitzroy and South Melbourne is not unreasonable. The club needs to sort itself out and fast. From the outside looking in we are light years behind other clubs. Cook has brought soon semblance stability but now Wright has to find a way to course correct without completely blowing things up completely because we simply cannot go through another rebuild. You can only sell hope for so long. At some point the fans will stop paying for memberships and then the club will be in a death spiral.

As someone said to me Thursday night we are no better than the Fitzroy St Kilda clubs that we used to make fun of in the 70s & 80s

Our results over the past 30 years (which is a quarter of our existence) is a disgrace and as bad as any club. Issue is we are still another decade away from success and that’s if we fix current issues

We are NOT a powerhouse anymore

By any measure on field we are a mess. Even look at how our Reserves and AFLW is performing. We are a disgrace and we need to be honest about it

 

[jd2010]

As someone said to me Thursday night we are no better than the Fitzroy St Kilda clubs that we used to make fun of in the 70s & 80s

Our results over the past 30 years (which is a quarter of our existence) is a disgrace and as bad as any club. Issue is we are still another case away from success and that’s if we fix current issues

We are NOT a powerhouse anymore

By any measure on field we are a mess. Even look at how our Reserves and AFLW is performing. We are a disgrace and we need to be honest about it

And I'm sure this will upset those over the age of 40, but we bought our success before equalisation came in. It was easy to buy premiership. It's not easy to be well run when things are more level

The basket cases of the 70s and 80s had a genuine reason for their shitness, they financially couldn't compete.

 

[Soapy V]

Even the Cook appointment was classic Carlton clutching at straws

Let's get a guy who retired and was done with that part of his life, to come back for a few years, for likely mainly monetary reasons

Love your post but I have to disagree with this bit. We needed a good leader for a year or so. Off field is good and he has settled club.

I had hoped for more from Cook but with the appointment of Wright I hope now we are in a position to completely overhaul our football department and changed our culture

 

[jd2010]

Love your post but I have to disagree with this bit. We needed a good leader for a year or so. Off field is good and he has settled club.

I had hoped for more from Cook but with the appointment of Wright I hope now we are in a position to completely overhaul our football department and changed our culture

I don't think Cook leaves us in any better spot than we were in when he came in, on or off the park

 

[Soapy V]

And I'm sure this will upset those over the age of 40, but we bought our success before equalisation came in. It was easy to buy premiership. It's not easy to be well run when things are more level

The basket cases of the 70s and 80s had a genuine reason for their shitness, they financially couldn't compete.

I’m 68. I 100% agree with your comment.

We were the last to admit change was needed as AFL grew and we are still paying for it.

The issue for me is we don’t stand for Anything anymore. We just drift and try and fix things around the edges that do little

This is a cultural issue

 

[Soapy V]

I don't think Cook leaves us in any better spot than we were in when he came in, on or off the park

I think we are a bit better off field but nowhere near what I hoped.

On field (football dept) we are a mess

 

[SurreyBlue]

I don't think Cook leaves us in any better spot than we were in when he came in, on or off the park

I also don’t feel it’s totally fair for Wright to come and re-do everything, if it’s not right, yet Cook allowed multiple contracts to be extended or positions to continue.

 

[jd2010]

I think we are a bit better off field but nowhere near what I hoped.

On field (football dept) we are a mess

What parts do you consider off field as better? Or as off field in general.

I was thinking coaching staff, recruitment staff as off field and I'd say we are at ground zero there. So might just be difference in what we consider off field.

 

[Soapy V]

What parts do you consider off field as better? Or as off field in general.

I was thinking coaching staff, recruitment staff as off field and I'd say we are at ground zero there. So might just be difference in what we consider off field.

I see anything directly football related as on field

Finances, membership, sponsorship, media etc all off field

That’s my take

 

[jd2010]

I see anything directly football related as on field

Finances, membership, sponsorship, media etc all off field

That’s my take

Finances - yep definitely tick
Membership - yep tick but not because of Cook more just us buying the hype and hope
Sponsorship - yep tick
Media - i can't stand listening to us in the media at all. It's so cliche, fake and cringey. Which is probably what they want. But the messages they sell is as real as the winner of Royal Rumble