Prediction Michael Barlow

[Scorpus]

Weren't impressed by his efforts under Walsh in 2015?

We play him for half a season and he does well. We play him for 5 minutes in an unfamiliar role this year and he kicks goals. The kid does well whenever we put him on the park. Id rather give him a spot and see what he can do for a season. He gets it often and uses it better than people give him credit for.

He stated he wanted more game time, the Crows kept him on. If they don't want to give him the opportunity, then they should have done a Lyons and made it impossible for him to stay. It would be a waste of a list spot to keep him and not play him.

At the time CEY was in the team I was reasonably impressed, but I think part of that was due to the 'potential' factor.

The main issue for me is I don't see CEY fitting the Pyke gameplan. Our style under Pyke revolves more around precision disposal and fast transition than pure contested ball winning. CEY's main strength is clearance ball winning, and we did lack that power at times, but he's just not good enough to also provide precision disposal, and most importantly, defensive pressure.

If we're going to persist with high transition football, we need midfielders who can win their share of the ball, but also force turnovers through defensive pressure when we're not winning it. This was by far our biggest issue in 2016 and CEY does nothing to address that (outside of congested stoppages). I'm also not a fan of his disposal or decision making, even under Walsh, where he tends to shank it or rush it even at SANFL level and particularly by foot. Not what we need.

I'd much rather trial Wigg who also has ball winning ability but is far better with ball in hand. That's the sort of midfielder we need in the team. And I don't believe we have room for both Wigg and CEY if we also want to slot in many of our decent wing players.

 

[ad victoriam]

Youre wrong here, and labouring over a misconception. His disposal by hand out of congestion is above average and his foot skills are better than you give him credit for. He's a big body that doesn't get moved off the ball and he finds a lot of it. His only negative us that he needs to work harder defensively.

Aside from your misguided assessment of his foot skills, you haven't really thrown up any reasons for him not be included. In fact, youre preferring an older player with a similar skill set - arguably worse by foot but better defensively. You have a habit of making early calls on players and not wavering despite their improvement.

I like CEY and I watched most of his games for the last few years live. He has good skills, can be defensive but does not work hard enough yet believe that may change a bit in 2017 for how long nobody knows. But he is not a good kick in the open, yes he hits a few targets, but there are many times he is short or over the top, and his target selection is off a lot of the time. ie He can kick straight OK but depth and correct calls is a problem.
He would be, in the open one of lesser kicks in the Crows SANFL team.

Guys like Barlow and Matt Crouch are rubbished for there contested type kicks out of a packs, but in the open they hit targets more than not and there selection of targets is good.

 

[Vader]

Youre wrong here, and labouring over a misconception. His disposal by hand out of congestion is above average and his foot skills are better than you give him credit for. He's a big body that doesn't get moved off the ball and he finds a lot of it. His only negative us that he needs to work harder defensively.

Aside from your misguided assessment of his foot skills, you haven't really thrown up any reasons for him not be included. In fact, youre preferring an older player with a similar skill set - arguably worse by foot but better defensively. You have a habit of making early calls on players and not wavering despite their improvement.

Very few players show significant improvement after being on the list for 5 years. Those I have got wrong showed rapid & massive improvement fairly quickly after I made those wrong calls - Cameron & Laird are both examples of players I underestimated. I'm struggling to think of a player who has been around for as long as CEY, playing as few games as CEY, who has ever gone on to be more than a fringe player.

I think there are several issues with CEY's game - his kicking is more random than a roulette wheel, his defensive pressure is lacking, he lacks the attitude/aggression to make it, and his training work ethic is (reportedly) questionable. His hand skills are fine, and he does get a reasonable amount of the ball, particularly at SANFL level. However, his game does have some serious flaws - which is why he has rarely been selected (aside from the Walsh era).

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Which should and could be the case. If they end up picking Thompson every week alongside Barlow we'll be unhappy about selection not Barlow. I would have thought.

Even if we don't pick Thompson (good) there won't be a new midfield spot open due to Barlow filling it (bad) and it also means we are wasting a list spot on a senior player we had no intention of using (bad)

Thompson's retention should have spelled any idea of getting in a mature-ager. We've already got our DFA... filled internally, as is our preferred method.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Roo's favourite line: "get to September and anything can happen".

Usually the same 'anything' where we are concerned.

 

[Ozzie]

Add Hawks to that list. There are at least 3 the Hawks rotated through there at times.

Its more of how the ball is distributed by these inside mids once they get the ball and where they position themselves after they have distributed.

Hawks mids set up, distribution and positioning has been elite.

Which supports my disdain for the midfield coaching group we currently employ, namely Campo and Clarke. They along with Thommo need to be changed ASAP. Thommo should be dropped, but will he is the question?

 

[DD#23]

Roo's favourite line: "get to September and anything can happen".

thing with Roo is that he doesn't realise how much better He, Andy, Simmo, Tys, Darren, Kane, etc were than half the team we've been taking into finals. Even the fabled bottom 6 turned up in our finals campaigns, and you can see that in the Bulldogs success as well.

if we had half a dozen more players with Lever, Sloane, Laird, Talia and Cameron's calm confidence upstairs we might be able to make it true again, but we've been content with the blokes that go to water for a decade now.

 

[Ozzie]

Very few players show significant improvement after being on the list for 5 years. Those I have got wrong showed rapid & massive improvement fairly quickly after I made those wrong calls - Cameron & Laird are both examples of players I underestimated. I'm struggling to think of a player who has been around for as long as CEY, playing as few games as CEY, who has ever gone on to be more than a fringe player.

I think there are several issues with CEY's game - his kicking is more random than a roulette wheel, his defensive pressure is lacking, he lacks the attitude/aggression to make it, and his training work ethic is (reportedly) questionable. His hand skills are fine, and he does get a reasonable amount of the ball, particularly at SANFL level. However, his game does have some serious flaws - which is why he has rarely been selected (aside from the Walsh era).

CEY is an interesting one, again I was watching a live telecast and the commentators were discussing CEY after a lovely one-handed pick up on the forward flank and he kicked truly. Pretty sure it was Soders and Chinever , they seem to be the main blokes with the occasional John Casey. They were of the opinion that it was amazing how he couldn't get an AFL game saying he was too good to be playing SANFL. I forget how many weekly RAA awards he won during the year around the 7 mark I think. Greenwood got 2 from memory.

All I can think off is Campo dislikes his game and prefers others. His kicking is acceptable, maybe he doesn't work hard enough on the training track but surely that can't be the main reason. I know lots of players who are poor on the track yet star in the games.

The ones to ask are Nikki and Ad Victorium, they both make all the games but I'm like you can only watch on TV these days.

 

[Vikingblood]

Whats freo's agenda, not having quality players in the mid?

Freo's agenda is the complete absence of a forward line. Check their list out. McCarthy is the only significant in and he's a dodgy proposition.

 

[GameofSloanes]

CEY is not the answer, his kicking and tackling are average at best, his defensive running non existent, intensity is low. Just seems a slow plodder who has talent but not the will to push himself to be great, or even good. If he was decent he would have forced his way into the side, made the selectore pick him, like Lyons did. Thinking that he will propel us up the ladder is living in a fantasy. Sure he may improve a bit by getting regular game time but nothing I have seen makes me think it will be enough.
I'm happy to be proved wrong

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You didn't confine it to foot skills - you simply said he has poor skills.

Are you suggesting players with poor skills can be good players?

Given Neale handballs a lot then that overcomes some of his deficiencies

But your being pedantic now .... You know what I said

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Correct me if I am wrong but Luke Ball left StKilda, in this instance Freo got rid of Barlow because tthey dont believe he can do anything in their top 22

If he cant make Freo's 22 and Freo feels he has nothing left to offer the group why the helll will he make ours

Everyone is fully aware of Barlows injury history

Why did St Kilda let Goddard and Dal Santo go when rebuilding then .... Both players still playing quality footy?

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

At the time CEY was in the team I was reasonably impressed, but I think part of that was due to the 'potential' factor.

The main issue for me is I don't see CEY fitting the Pyke gameplan. Our style under Pyke revolves more around precision disposal and fast transition than pure contested ball winning. CEY's main strength is clearance ball winning, and we did lack that power at times, but he's just not good enough to also provide precision disposal, and most importantly, defensive pressure.

If we're going to persist with high transition football, we need midfielders who can win their share of the ball, but also force turnovers through defensive pressure when we're not winning it. This was by far our biggest issue in 2016 and CEY does nothing to address that (outside of congested stoppages). I'm also not a fan of his disposal or decision making, even under Walsh, where he tends to shank it or rush it even at SANFL level and particularly by foot. Not what we need.

I'd much rather trial Wigg who also has ball winning ability but is far better with ball in hand. That's the sort of midfielder we need in the team. And I don't believe we have room for both Wigg and CEY if we also want to slot in many of our decent wing players.

If that is true, then why are we getting Barlow? How does his game style fit into Pyke's plan?

 

[feenix67]

I like CEY and I watched most of his games for the last few years live. He has good skills, can be defensive but does not work hard enough yet believe that may change a bit in 2017 for how long nobody knows. But he is not a good kick in the open, yes he hits a few targets, but there are many times he is short or over the top, and his target selection is off a lot of the time. ie He can kick straight OK but depth and correct calls is a problem.
He would be, in the open one of lesser kicks in the Crows SANFL team.

Guys like Barlow and Matt Crouch are rubbished for there contested type kicks out of a packs, but in the open they hit targets more than not and there selection of targets is good.

On the last bit, it's not hard to hit a target 15 metres away.

 

[Iron]

Even if we don't pick Thompson (good) there won't be a new midfield spot open due to Barlow filling it (bad) and it also means we are wasting a list spot on a senior player we had no intention of using (bad)

Thompson's retention should have spelled any idea of getting in a mature-ager. We've already got our DFA... filled internally, as is our preferred method.

Yeah. But I feel like it's better to rectify a mistake rather than roll with it. We need immediate improvement however small it might be. Barlow is an upgrade on most of our fringe midfielders, including Thommo.

 

[fabs33]

That's okay if we surround them with the right players and develop a structure/plan that involves dishing out to running players. I think if we can work players like Atkins, Smith, Milera, Cameron, Seedsman and Hampton in around these guys then it works well. If we're relying on these guys to regularly deliver inside 50 then we're in trouble.

I can't remember us ever having that kind of movement at our stoppages under Campo and Clarke, both of whom have been in their current roles for a while now, so I can't see it happening all of a sudden.

 

[fabs33]

I know in advance I am going to disagree with some of the Coaches decisions, I also know in advance that the club will make some decisions I don't agree with,
It does not make me or them Right. but it up to CEY if he wants to play AFL he has the talent, he needs to put in. And I am only going on what I have seen with my own eyes. if he improves on a few issues he leave them no choice but to play him. in 2016 year he did not do that. However 6 others did and they played AFL consistently at the end and would be in most eye best 22. That is what gives me confidence that its clear cut.

You're basing much of your view on small details that can't easily be indentified or substantiated, that's very convenient.

 

[Ozzie]

This may ruffle some feathers but I simply cannot for the life of me see what all the fuss is about concerning Harrison Wigg. When I have watched him in games on TV admittingly, he has failed to impress me. Sure he has a nice kick but he doesn't get enough of it. He is small, not particularly quick and gets brushed aside way too easy for mine. I rate him the same as Menzel, they both have the rep but underperform in my view. I'm not saying he won't make it but he has a few in front of him.

 

[ad victoriam]

You're basing much of your view on small details that can't easily be indentified or substantiated, that's very convenient.

What small details, He either good enough or he not, it his to lose, Last year 6 player took the chance a stayed in the team,

 

[baldandbroke]

I'd add Barlow before CEY to our starting 22, but that doesn't mean CEY is useless for 2017.

 

[Pea Nut]

Why did St Kilda let Dal Santo go when rebuilding then .... still playing quality footy?

Norf didn't think so !!

 

[ad victoriam]

This may ruffle some feathers but I simply cannot for the life of me see what all the fuss is about concerning Harrison Wigg. When I have watched him in games on TV admittingly, he has failed to impress me. Sure he has a nice kick but he doesn't get enough of it. He is small, not particularly quick and gets brushed aside way too easy for mine. I rate him the same as Menzel, they both have the rep but underperform in my view. I'm not saying he won't make it but he has a few in front of him.

Wigg was good at hunting his own ball, and worked well off losing taps, he was also very good around the stoppage .Wigg disposal selection is in the very good bracket. Earlier he needed to work on consistency thru the game, towards the end he had that and found ways to work himself into the game. Size may be the biggest issue.

 

[MRB37]

CEY's training with Hugh Greenwood in the US where Greenwood played college ball. Hopefully they both come into pre-season in tip top shape.

 

[fabs33]

What small details, He either good enough or he not, it his to lose, Last year 6 player took the chance a stayed in the team,

You're reminding me of all those people who said the same for Lyons; "if he's good enough he'll play". In the end he proved he was good enough but he didn't play until the sub rule was gone and guys like Wright were moved on. That kind of thinking is just shallow and naive, and is underpinned by a need to trust the coaches.

 

[Ozzie]

Wigg was good at hunting his own ball, and worked well off losing taps, he was also very good around the stoppage .Wigg disposal selection is in the very good bracket. Earlier he needed to work on consistency thru the game, towards the end he had that and found ways to work himself into the game. Size may be the biggest issue.

Losing taps? I thought our rucks were really solid in that team. I must have been watching a different bloke to you. We are talking about #35 aren't we?