Michael Malthouse

[Godfrey Jones]

im convinced that chase the ace is frank stone

 

[magpie10]

If there is no top four in 2009/ no significant challenge for flag assuming were good with injuries, then questions should start being asked.

i agree that our gameplan is ancient and should be overhauled to keep up with modern times. That is why we get beaten by lesser teams, because all we do is bomb it in long. We need to develop the likes of pendles, daisy, wellingham and mcarthy to become effective run and carry midfielders to help didak and davis, and develop stanley to become a clerance mid.

Great midfields win premierships; look at the brisbane, west coast and geelong. We also need to develop our backline and our forwards are quite good.

i expect us to challenge for top4 in 2009, hoping that we recruit cousins and that injuries and suspensions don't ruin another year.
Promising signs for the furture

 

[Chase the Ace]

im convinced that chase the ace is frank stone

Just around the corner actually.
Why whats wrong with Frankston?

 

[twoforjoy]

MM has built a list with exciting potential. The young talent is exciting and shown enough so far, MM can get the best out of them even in these early days. It appears he is trying to create a very even list across the board which is what Geelong do pretty well. On top of that his ability to help Medhurst turn himself around has been fantastic. If his relationship with Cousins helps get him to the Pies and turn him around off field then fantastic. I think MM deserves a couple more years to see this through. I think he is still improving as a coach. If he wasn't then I would want him gone.

 

[person_pitch]

I love having Mick as our coach! I reckon he's worth it just for the novelty of watching Christi interview him after the games.

 

[tess]

im convinced that chase the ace is frank stone

But who is Frank Stone, Jack Spain ect and ect .... is you bother with taking any notice there is about 3 or 4 that post/reply within minutes of each other!

 

[Godfrey Jones]

But who is Frank Stone, Jack Spain ect and ect .... is you bother with taking any notice there is about 3 or 4 that post/reply within minutes of each other!

lol you could be onto something...

nah jack spain and frank have been arguing lately..

stui = frankiboi though, of that i am convinced

 

[tess]

If it was "your job" how hard would it be to have a couple of accounts with different isp's ...... Stui could be but I doubt it. I met up with Stui PP and a few others last year.

 

[Skade]

Tess you posted only 2 minutes after Godfrey Jones.

I'm watching you.

 

[tess]

Tess you posted only 2 minutes after Godfrey Jones.

I'm watching you.

Interesting to see who isn't posting now ........

 

[Skade]

Interesting to see who isn't posting now ........

.........

 

[MarkT]

Any team

Freo hasnt won one yet
Port just the 1
Adelaide a decade
swans in in 50 years
Carlton almost a decade and a half
Essendon almost a decade
Geelong 1 in more than 50 years
Richmond 2 finals series since 1980
Hawthorn now since 89
Bulldogs 1 in their history
Saints 1 in their history
North none in a decade


Premierships are difficult and not won from ninth, at leats we are always a chance

Sure they are difficult. Sure they aren’t won from 9th. They aren’t often won from outside the top 3 or 4 either and until we can finish there we are setting ourselves up for more of he same.

It isn’t about nearly being good enough. Premierships are hard to win so they go to the clubs that set the bar high enough and don’t accept nearly. Therein lies the problem and if you doubt me just go to the AGM.

Meanwhile can you please make your comparisons with the best not the worst and the mediocre – unless you are doing a talk at the AGM that is.

 

[MarkT]

Hopefully Eddie will come out and announce Mick has been given a 2 year extension to his contract.
Brilliant coach

A 50% win/loss record is definitively mediocre. He has also won 2 from 5 grand finals in over 2 decades at it. The two wins were within 3 years and for the remaining 2 decades he has failed to win a flag. Sure he has done better than some – a great many in fact – but where do you set the bar? What drives real success?

How do define brilliant?

 

[tess]

Problem is some people have it defined for them and go with the spin.

 

[Pie eyed]

Considering the teams which have won the Flag during Malthouse's tenure as coach of Collingwood, have any of his detractors ever entertained the notion that....
1) We were just not good enough?

Brisbane won 3, 2 over the Pies, and you can argue that we had some bad luck and lost some key players at a vital times, but time and time again it is said that a good team does not let umpiring decisions and injury stand in the way of flag glory.

2) Could this period have been the peak of a 5 year build up?

3) Do we appear to be building again for a challenge at the flag?

The answer to the above three questions is evident by the facts as they have played out, as they actually happened.

The answer is yes.


4) Will we be good enough this time?

The answer is maybe.

If any coach on the face of the earth in any sport can give you a better answer than that then they lie.

MM has kept us in contention for 7 of his 10 years.
He cannot play the game for the players...the players have to be the ones to do the business.
If you are going to come down on Malthouse you have to come down equally as hard on Bucks, as the Captain, and the senior players from the last 10 years. You know the players we venerated recently as they retired one by one.

The fact is to win a flag you need the playing group, the experience, the mental and physical toughness, the game plan and the LUCK.
Without any one of the above you would be, just as we are right now and for the past 10 years, "preparing" to win a flag.

If we were consistently out of contention, fair enough MM would have to go. But as long as we are in contention, and there is no obviously superior coach available all this speculation about where the club should be, what flags we should have won and MM bashing is just that speculation.

Don't tell me the flag the Blues pinched off us when Harmes tapped the ball back in was not desperately lucky, for them.

 

[well left]

I pretty much agree with robert22. I posted this in the thread about MM being sacked:

I'm really not sure on what I think of MM's coaching but I think he deserves to go on next year.

I can kind of see everyone's points of view. I agree that not many other coaches would have got us to finals with the team we had available and would not have got the win in Adelaide in week 1 of the Finals. That's where you sit there and admire what MM can do and his faith in the youngsters etc.

However what FuManchu is saying is correct also. MM has had 9 years at the club and we have no premierships to show for it. That is a long time for a coach to remain at a club with no premierships - Neale Daniher had 10 years at Melbourne with continued finals success but no flags and they eventually realised he was not going to get there so he was replaced.

Mick has had two serious tilts at it - he built from 99 up to our chances in 2002-03. We then dropped down for 2004 and 2005 before having finals again for the last 3 years. At the end of last year, with Buckley, Clement and Licca retiring, we have gone for youth again and another mini-rebuild. So he is now possibly in his 3rd crack at it.

The problems I have with MM are I think we have been slow to react and fix our deficiencies - both ruck and midfield. We persisted with Richards for far too long and a one-paced midfield for too long.

The previous comments about his game plan are valid too - it can't be a good sign that Fevola and Franklin always kick a bag against us because they are one-out all the time. I know people will say that it is because we got smashed in the midfield but that is because we were slow to fix our midfield and ruck problems and getting smashed in the middle happens some days - you have to react and change your game plan accordingly.

Last week's game was a perfect example - St Kilda got exactly what they wanted with a 5 man open forward line for Riewoldt and Kosi to operate in and we got a clogged forward line where our forwards got no chance. We just did not adapt.

So where does that leave us? It looks as though we are addressing our problems so MM should be allowed to see that through but if we stagnate next year then I think it is time to look at options. Buckley is the obvious option but there are others that are highly rated like Damien Hardwick and Brad Scott about - I'd entertain the thought of Brad Scott. He was hard, ruthless and relentless as a player and you'd think he would be the same as a coach.

 

[MarkT]

Considering the teams which have won the Flag during Malthouse's tenure as coach of Collingwood, have any of his detractors ever entertained the notion that....
1) We were just not good enough?

Yeh, constantly. Therein lies the beginning of the problem and the constant failure of Malthouse. We still have the same deficiencies we had in 2002 when you could easily make the excuse about the cattle but now it’s the coach’s cattle. If you can’t fill the holes in a decade you can’t coach well enough. If you think McKee or Bryan are ruckmen that will win you a flag you don’t acknowledge the deficiency. If you couldn’t see the midfield deficiency and target it after 2003 then you can’t build a list well enough.

How long is long enough?

 

[Pie eyed]

Yeh, constantly. Therein lies the beginning of the problem and the constant failure of Malthouse. We still have the same deficiencies we had in 2002 when you could easily make the excuse about the cattle but now it’s the coach’s cattle. If you can’t fill the holes in a decade you can’t coach well enough. If you think McKee or Bryan are ruckmen that will win you a flag you don’t acknowledge the deficiency. If you couldn’t see the midfield deficiency and target it after 2003 then you can’t build a list well enough.

How long is long enough?

When I say "we" in my post I am not talking about Malthouse.
I am talking about the club...the administration, players, coaching staff and recruiting staff.

All the arguments about McKee and Bryan type players rely on the supposition that we had numerous choices, most of, if not all of whom have become great players that we missed.....not the case really is it...it's just wishful thinking.
If you could guarantee every player you drafted or traded for would live up to potential you saw in them we would have won several premierships...but then again so would have all the other sides.

The fact is there are only "X" number of top players in any generation in each position, drafting is a real raffle.

Trading has it's pitfalls as well.

Thank God for Medders, because he makes our trade record look far better than it did a few years ago.

 

[tess]

Thank God for Medders, because he makes our trade record look far better than it did a few years ago.

Remember one Matty Lokan, we got a couple of good years out of him ..... lets see how he goes over the next two years.

 

[Kirby]

Remember one Matty Lokan, we got a couple of good years out of him ..... lets see how he goes over the next two years.

You didn't just compare Lokan with Medders did you?

 

[tess]

Just comparing the initial excitment.....

 

[15_year_member]

You guys are on the right track but the problem is that your drafting was absolutely dreadful for many years. And i know why - Malthouse. As much as i despise his arrogance and know-it-all attitude he is a fantastic match day coach. But don't let him get involved in your drafting. He did it at our club for the second half of the '90s and wreaked havoc. He threw a tantrum at the recruitment dept on draft day and forced them to take Rowan Jones over Simon Black who they wanted FFS among many blunders.

But this is easy said than done as Malthouse likes to dominate every dept of any footy club he is involved in. He is a control freak and an ego maniac. I believe after your comprehensive footy review after your shocking season a few years ago Eddy decided to review Malthouses role and defined it much more narrowly and told him to keep his nose out of recruiting. And presto, look what happens - you start drafting and unearthing good young players.

Malthouse is a good coach if you have astrong enough club to force him to keep his ego in check and keep him away from recruiting dept.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

...Malthouse is a good coach if you have astrong enough club to force him to keep his ego in check and keep him away from recruiting dept.

Interesting take on it. Many here who follow our history closer than me suggested it was more to do with Noel Judkins. But you reckon it was MM himself?

It makes more sense if there is a clear division of responsibility, and allows each link in the chain to have a bit more daring and throw up unexpected surprises. Like a young key defender who turns out to be a sharp-shooting forward

 

[well left]

I'd love to know how the exact system works in relation to this. I would assume MM and his staff, in conjunction with Hine & Walsh, would undertake list management decisions and identify where the deficiencies are. They would then decide on who is to be delisted, traded and what current AFL players are to be targeted. Hine would be able to provide input on AFL players playing in lower leagues as his network would see players such as Thomson (and Wood last year) week in week out.

When it comes to the draft, I would assume Hine would be given some parameters on what we need and he and his staff would go away and try to identify what will happen in the draft and what players would be available at each pick. Videos of these players would then be shown to the coaching staff for their input. MM should have a say but the final decision at draft time would lie with Hine.

Would that be correct?

 

[Godfrey Jones]

You guys are on the right track but the problem is that your drafting was absolutely dreadful for many years. And i know why - Malthouse. As much as i despise his arrogance and know-it-all attitude he is a fantastic match day coach. But don't let him get involved in your drafting. He did it at our club for the second half of the '90s and wreaked havoc. He threw a tantrum at the recruitment dept on draft day and forced them to take Rowan Jones over Simon Black who they wanted FFS among many blunders.

yeh we constantly hear stories like this. such as he was the one who insisted on drafting toovey, against the recruiter's recommendations

dont know if theres truth behind it