Coach Michael Voss - Stats, history, articles, videos

[BlueTongue]

Think the logical order should be…

Remove Lloyd asap (think just about everyone agrees with this)

Let the new HoF be part of decision making for any changes in list management, HC and assistants.

Likewise, HC needs to be sorted before assistants - he’ll be part of decision making for any changes in assistants.

What I don't get (other than Softcap) is why Lloyd is still around? We should be getting someone in now before the Draft.

 

[BlueTongue]

3 years on - he should know by now you’d think

But are they his call? Or did the club appoint them to 'Assist' him as a new coach?

 

[Blue By Blood]

Just a question to ponder..
If you were to rank all the coaches on their ability (motivation, tactics, game plan etc) where would Voss rank?

Lets say you consider him in the bottom 5 coaches in the league.. does that mean we are putting ourselves behind the eight ball compared to the teams with better coaches?

The league is so even. Every decision matters. Every extra days break matters. Every little thing that you give an advantage to the opposition to is hurting your own chances. A lot needs to go right to win a premiership outside of the talent of the actual list.

 

[Accidental genius]

But are they his call? Or did the club appoint them to 'Assist' him as a new coach?

I Don’t know. I assume a HC should have some input in who the assistants are?

 

[BlueTongue]

I Don’t know. I assume a HC should have some input in who the assistants are?

Maybe. But Jordan Russell and Aaron Hamill reeks of sentimental favourites by the club to me.
Not sure Vossy wanted to rock the boat too much after 10yrs as an assistant.

 

[Accidental genius]

Maybe. But Jordan Russell and Aaron Hamill reeks of sentimental favourites by the club to me.
Not sure Vossy wanted to rock the boat too much after 10yrs as an assistant.

Yeah probably.

has our defensive structures and performances changed before/after hamills arrival?

I don’t ever recall us playing man on man ? We’ve generally been a zone defense and it was v pretty bad against crows.

 

[agro]

Maybe. But Jordan Russell and Aaron Hamill reeks of sentimental favourites by the club to me.
Not sure Vossy wanted to rock the boat too much after 10yrs as an assistant.

Sentimental favourites ehh????

 

[BlueTongue]

Yeah probably.

has our defensive structures and performances changed before/after hamills arrival?

I don’t ever recall us playing man on man ? We’ve generally been a zone defense and it was v pretty bad against crows.

Hard to tell what's changed because it's largely based around how we play Weiters and who's selected to help him out.

I'm pretty sure we player closer on the OP with SOS, but it really depends on the Opposing Team that week.
Our 'zone' defence (if you can call it that, because we generally get caught a lot with players not knowing when to go and when to get back) gets carved up by the loose playing teams that move the ball well (Crows, Hawks, Saints, and to a less effective extent, Bombers).

That's why I go nuts at loose checking against these teams. We aren't as effective with disposal as they are, and we can't beat them at their style of play because we just aren't as fast or efficient with the ball.

Our Gameplan is largely based on the contest and scoring from turnovers, so I think we have to continue to play that way, not get sucked into their style, which we aren't ever going to match them.

 

[BlueTongue]

Sentimental favourites ehh????

Wasn't Hamill one of Big Jack's favorites? ...

 

[TENACIOUS]

From someone on the weekend who would know. Nothing we don’t already suspect but interesting to hear it from another perspective.

• Voss is not perfect but he’s not the biggest problem
• inconsistency across his tenure due to fluctuating factors some which he doesnt directly control. ie. injuries; list gaps; big contracts; also identified adding “layers” to game plan was messy.
• playing group is connected and together. enough talent on the list but big discrepancies in hunger/ commitment across the group. Mentally fragile - not just from a toughness perspective but the ability to fulfil basics week to week.

Thanks for the info…

It boggles the mind.

If the club know these things why haven’t the been proactive and focused on fixing the issues/moving people on.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Massive issue with our list/club. Problem is we have many players that are "happy" being AFL players and getting very good money. They are comfortable and lack the drive to go to the next level. Unfortunately several are also our highest paid players

As much as I doubt Voss you can't make a player be motivated for success especially if they have a long term guranteed contract

Again, boils down to culture and how we run our club. Only special driven players should ever get long term contracts

I'll probably cop it for saying this but I'm starting to wonder if even Charlie sits in that bucket.

I know you shouldn't read to much into social media but he seems to spend alot of time in Torquay, has several business ventures and does alot of promotional work.

None of that would be a red flag if it wasnt for the fact hes barely played a complete game in 2 years. He shows flashes and has dominant quarters but overall doesn't seem to work as hard as he used to.

Not saying he doesnt want to win. I just get the sense that getting the absolute most out of himself might not be his top priority and he might just be happy living the lifestyle of a star AFL player.

Might be unfair given his injuries but Im finding him pretty frustrating to watch at times these days.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

From someone on the weekend who would know. Nothing we don’t already suspect but interesting to hear it from another perspective.

• Voss is not perfect but he’s not the biggest problem
• inconsistency across his tenure due to fluctuating factors some which he doesnt directly control. ie. injuries; list gaps; big contracts; also identified adding “layers” to game plan was messy.
• playing group is connected and together. enough talent on the list but big discrepancies in hunger/ commitment across the group. Mentally fragile - not just from a toughness perspective but the ability to fulfil basics week to week.

Sounds like a load of dribble that they'd want "leaked" to me...

Connected and together? Oh yes, stronger together, how can we forget?

But there are big discrepancies in hunger and commitment... so how are they connected and together then?

Enough talent... can't fulfil basics week to week... bit of an oxymoron there...

4 years into a coaching tenure, an experienced list full of talented late 20 - 30 year olds can't mentally apply themselves consistently? Isn't Voss' role to have the group focused and prepared mentally? But this person knows Voss isn't the biggest problem... how would they know this exactly?

 

[bigblueboy]

Thanks for the info…

It boggles the mind.

If the club know these things why haven’t the been proactive and focused on fixing the issues/moving people on.

Some overdue list changes were made last year … offset by some odd decisions through the trade/draft period.
Reality is the injuries last year were identified as the number 1 issue and therefore some of the deeper problems were not prioritised.
I expect to see more changes at the end of this year on and off field … unfortunately I feel we are like the cops trying to stop the online scammers … we are always two steps behind.

 

[bigblueboy]

Sounds like a load of dribble that they'd want "leaked" to me...

Connected and together? Oh yes, stronger together, how can we forget?

But there are big discrepancies in hunger and commitment... so how are they connected and together then?

Enough talent... can't fulfil basics week to week... bit of an oxymoron there...

4 years into a coaching tenure, an experienced list full of talented late 20 - 30 year olds can't mentally apply themselves consistently? Isn't Voss' role to have the group focused and prepared mentally? But this person knows Voss isn't the biggest problem... how would they know this exactly?

Nope, totally unsolicited.

I agree that it’s perplexing. It’s hard to criticise supporters searching for answers when it’s not clear (imo) that those inside the club are able to pinpoint why our performances remain so inconsistent.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Sounds like someone needs to go light a freakin bonfire and gather the boys to sing kumbaya.

There's a huge gap between players that want to play vs players that feel like playing.

This football club has more drama than a soap opera.

Our methodology for development is when someone breaks a leg in the seniors.

I've heard the club is considering a move to Summer Bay as they have lees drama there?

 

[TENACIOUS]

I've heard the club is considering a move to Summer Bay as they have lees drama there?

Maybe we should move to Tassie…

Even Austin couldn’t screw up with those concessions

 

[Accidental genius]

Some overdue list changes were made last year … offset by some odd decisions through the trade/draft period.
Reality is the injuries last year were identified as the number 1 issue and therefore some of the deeper problems were not prioritised.
I expect to see more changes at the end of this year on and off field … unfortunately I feel we are like the cops trying to stop the online scammers … we are always two steps behind.

Yeah, This is how I see it too.

We hung onto our injury prones far too long to the point where it became so obvious that we didn't/couldn't do much more.

Good point about us being two steps behind too.

I look forward to the day where we have a well functioning footy department - it really is the last missing piece in an otherwise very well run club in the modern afl era and with a rich and successful history.

 

[goreds]

So the main issue with our list is that some less than fully committed senior players are better selection options than what's available in the seconds?

This is 100% correct...

How is it fixed?? Pretty simple, to be honest!

Leaders (players) should be regulating this issue and dealing with it...

 

[Blue Pulse]

Would love to have a chat with Matthew Kennedy and see what he feels the difference is between coaching and club culture is. Bulldogs and Beveridge have obviously had their fair share of dramas over the years as well as this year but are still producing good football. Injuries and JUH, this year, but their game plan stacks up, same effort every game, you know they're going to fight it out.
They have also gotten rid of some quality players over the last few years which is a bit of a statement showing that the club is bigger than the ego

We have too many conditional footballers and have done for years and we just accept it. If Voss wants to hit players with a big stick, the club needs to support it, problem is I don't think he is that sort of person and it shows in his selection and on field tactics.

The red flag for me was round 1, we should never have lost that game and that falls squarely on his shoulders that he could not see what was happening.

 

[SurreyBlue]

Outside of culture, Matt Kennedy is an easy one. He is played in the right position of midfield / half forward and killing it, as some expected.

 

[Jatz]

Would love to have a chat with Matthew Kennedy and see what he feels the difference is between coaching and club culture is. Bulldogs and Beveridge have obviously had their fair share of dramas over the years as well as this year but are still producing good football. Injuries and JUH, this year, but their game plan stacks up, same effort every game, you know they're going to fight it out.
They have also gotten rid of some quality players over the last few years which is a bit of a statement showing that the club is bigger than the ego

We have too many conditional footballers and have done for years and we just accept it. If Voss wants to hit players with a big stick, the club needs to support it, problem is I don't think he is that sort of person and it shows in his selection and on field tactics.

The red flag for me was round 1, we should never have lost that game and that falls squarely on his shoulders that he could not see what was happening.

That may be better this season but they've had issues over the last several years and most feel they've underperformed considering their list. Beveridge has done well to keep his seat there.

 

[Accidental genius]

The red flag for me was round 1, we should never have lost that game and that falls squarely on his shoulders that he could not see what was happening.

It was a really bad and embarrassing loss - particular it being your first game for the season.

You come out of preseason where you had all that time to train strength/fitness/endurance etc and also refine your game plan and you lose to the potential cellar dwellers who had played with a bunch of newbies

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Outside of culture, Matt Kennedy is an easy one. He is played in the right position of midfield / half forward and killing it, as some expected.

But so is George now, with Cripps also spending more time forward.
It was a win, win deal.

 

[SurreyBlue]

But so is George now, with Cripps also spending more time forward.
It was a win, win deal.

No it wasn’t. Kennedy could still play half forward / mid as part of ‘decent’ rotations. But I won’t bother….

 

[Coona Blues]

Would love to have a chat with Matthew Kennedy and see what he feels the difference is between coaching and club culture is. Bulldogs and Beveridge have obviously had their fair share of dramas over the years as well as this year but are still producing good football. Injuries and JUH, this year, but their game plan stacks up, same effort every game, you know they're going to fight it out.
They have also gotten rid of some quality players over the last few years which is a bit of a statement showing that the club is bigger than the ego

We have too many conditional footballers and have done for years and we just accept it. If Voss wants to hit players with a big stick, the club needs to support it, problem is I don't think he is that sort of person and it shows in his selection and on field tactics.

The red flag for me was round 1, we should never have lost that game and that falls squarely on his shoulders that he could not see what was happening.

I rate Bevo as close to the best progressive coach going around. Blokes like McCrae and Scott get so much kudos, yet are blessed with experience and leadership in their playing ranks that was developed independent from the vaunted mentors. They have successfully harnessed the assets they have, but have had a myriad of help from within.

Bevo had the ability to harness a young group to produce an unlikely flag early in his tenure and has walked a path since which has seen phases of his teams development. Somewhat a changing of the guard and many changes in the game precipitated by changes in umpiring interpretation as well as coaching and game style variations.

Bevo had the foresight to see the direction the game was taking. We moved from a pure contested model, to a version incorporating distributing “seagulls” to break lines. Now there is a need for those guys to be playmakers and considerably smarter and more creative. We are seeing a growing number of players transitioning from that half back runner/distributor to genuine midfield roles and creating space across the park.

Bevo saw the game move from accumulators like Daniel and McCrae that are/were high volume, but low impact players. They were taking up space which needed to be given to more dynamic players. He has modified some midfielder roles, incorporated some “no-name” runners from state leagues and elevated the likes of Richards to more pivotal roles after a decent apprenticeship.

Dealing with the Ugle-Hagan dramas and other set backs to his playing group has produced a largely seamless development of game style. Having the courage to demote higher rated players to achieve long term goals is so very admirable where most other coaches back in their leaders to get the job done week after week.

Not sure he is a visionary changing the game, but he is a modern student and has kept up with trends and is aware of what is successful. It is astounding he remains uncontracted at the dogs. An ability to recognise and move with the times is priceless.

Voss has so many admirable qualities. His blind faith in his contested game will be the end of him. He is simply unable to adapt to the modern game in a sustained way. We have had a number of Indian Summers where we play a more expansive game, but we then try to drag it back and reincorporate the contest element as the over riding factor.

To be fair, should we make finals and have the list healthy, the Voss way may in fact be a valuable weapon in finals footy. More likely a balanced game plan will be the avenue to success.

No one wants to jettison another senior coach, especially a good guy with many redeeming qualities, but I am vonvinced he must go. Even if he were to embrace “modern football”, it is dubious we could recruit enough quality assistants to teach our group to play the required style of footy. If there is an individual out there who can turn things around, upskill our connection and make us consistently competitive with the best, he is not coming for a bit part under a bloke who consistently reverts to type and on past performance will struggle to embrace the model.

Changing the assistants alone is not an option, Vossy is too set in his views. Our footy is unsustainable and we must embrace the game as it is. The likes of Jagga and Cody coming in next year need to be incorporated in a way that changes up our game. They cannot be alone, they will need a lot of help and our leaders will still lead, but they need modified roles structurally. We do not want our shiny new toys to be fashioned in to more blunt instruments. We need spears, not more hammers.