Coach Michael Voss - Stats, history, articles, videos

[jpfalvo]

You can understand Cook's mantra if he actually had any meaningful role in choosing Voss. He came in after the process was completed and just ticked it off. In his first interview he even stated that Voss lacked tactically, that was alarm bells from the get go.

If we make a move, it'd be great to have Cook part of that panel (very make in the background) with Wright. And zero board level involvement!

But he did have an influence didn't he.

The re-signing of all the assistants and the addition of Clarke, Russell, all under his watch.

The signing off, of the end of season reviews, that finally found only Russell had to go, when clearly we had deeper issues.

The extension of Voss original contract, before it was required.

The lack of involvement in seeking out an experienced strategist, to fill the void of Voss's lack of tactical nous, which Cook himself pointed out.

All of this, under the Cook era and well within his control as CEO.

So, its not completely right to say, oh well... he inherited Voss.

If we are honest with ourselves. CAIN "from Marketing" Liddle, did a pretty good job on the commercials and driving membership. What we got excited about was Cook's credentials as a Football CEO....

Who could introduce salary cap banding like Geelong, and attract football nous. Did he do any of that.

Has to be marked as an underwhelming era

 

[Blue By Blood]

I don't post much here lately but wanted to add my thoughts. I'm one of those who thinks that it's usually never a single area that's to blame, but rather multiple areas that are each some way off the mark.

Coaching - clearly isn't working. Voss's gameplan doesn't work for modern footy or he doesn't have the cattle to do what he really wants. If we keep him (because we don't want to sack another coach) then I'd prefer he stick to player management, relationships, inspirational speeches, etc and delegate the actual gameplan and tactics to competent assistants who understand modern footy (i.e. not the ones we have now.) How we will lure competent assistants is another question though.

Fitness - has probably been a bit off the mark for a long time but I think we need to give this new guy at least a couple of seasons to make things better.

Recruitment - our list is incredibly imbalanced and the list management team need to take responsibility for this, even if it's what Vossy requested. Part of their jobs is to keep a balanced list that can play modern footy, they should know what modern footy looks like, where the game is heading, and what skills players need to have. If what the coach wants isn't conducive to modern footy then this should be escalated to higher up. How we've let our list get into such a horrible lopsided state is beyond me - far too many slow players with poor foot skills. And too many inconsistent or conditional players.

Development - can be difficult to tell how bad this is, and how much things like coaching and recruitment are really to blame. But I always feel like our players look exciting and show a bit in their first few outings, before often sliding backwards and becoming a bit "carltonized". I'd say it's okay but nowhere near top tier, which is where it needs to be.

So with each of these areas maybe 10% off the mark, it leads to a multiplicative, cascading effect where the final result seems far more off the mark than that. And who has managed all these areas - this shitshow of mediocrity? The footy manager Brad Lloyd. I know he survived the last cull but I'll be flabbergasted if he's still there next year. We desperately need a footy manager who can get each area of the footy department up to the elite status.

As a final note, the oft-expressed sentiment that we are wasting our talent and our players are better than this, would seem to have no better evidence than the output of Matt Kennedy for the WB this season. We have massive holes in the list but also plenty of players that, on talent, should be capable of so much more.

This last bit about Kennedy is spot on. We often said he adds to our slowness problem. But what we see is that when there is a good system in place for the players to follow, when the ball is moved quickly, a lack of leg speed doesn't matter. A quality player is a quality player. Once again this falls back on Voss not being able to fit players into a system and make them better. It also falls back on list management.

By year 4 of the Voss tenure, the game plan should be so embedded that players have no confusion on field. They should know where to run, when to hold their width, when to attack, when to defend etc.. but we still rely on individuals rather than system and it's why we don't see much improvement in any players. Now look at Collingwood under McRae. Their system is so embedded that even when they have injuries, any player coming in even if they aren't super talented is able to perform a role. Our coaching is the problem. We aren't miles off it. We need a new coach that implements a clear and modern game plan that allows even the role players to play a role.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I' grateful for ITK info same as anyone.

However I think context is important.
Especially with such an important player as Charlie.
We are given no info except that it seems he is leaving.
Is he unhappy with the coach or line coach or management or culture in general? Can't see us having success? If not - why not?

In saying Charlie is likely to leave , are we supposed to see Charlie as disloyal?
Or was it said to support a larger theory that the players are not happy with coaching direction?
Does it imply we need to change things, or that a few players are being bratty and need to play for the club?
We don't know!
It's just dumped and then '****!' He/she/they gone!

You should consider moving to North Korea where you can be sheltered and only hear the news you want to.

I still laugh to myself at the time you publicly accused me of “starting a nasty rumour about Elijah Hollands” because you live in Narnia where all footballers are flawless individuals who help blind orphans on the weekends.

 

[myblueroan]

You should consider moving to North Korea where you can sheltered and only hear the news you want to.

I still laugh to myself at the time you publicly accused me of “starting a nasty rumour about Elijah Hollands” because you live in Narnia where all footballers are flawless individuals who help blind orphans on the weekends.

It's good you don't hold on to things.

Was unecessary, I thought.

And even more so now, we know he is struggling...yet you bring it up again.

But that's your call.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

It's good you don't hold on to things.

Was unecessary, I thought.

And even more so now, we know he is struggling...yet you bring it up again.

But that's your call.

No one cares what you think.

It’s life. He’s not the first person with mental health concerns and he won’t be the last.

The content wasn’t the subject of any criminal investigation that could jeopardise a trial, and therefore you have no right to try and claim any moral high ground in telling people what they can and can’t speak on.

 

[myblueroan]

No one cares what you think

It’s life. He’s not the first person with mental health concerns and he won’t be the last.

The content wasn’t the subject of any criminal investigation that could jeopardise a trial, and therefore you have no right to try and claim any moral high ground in telling people what they can and can’t speak on.

Cheers.
Thanks for letting me know you haven't appreciated my criticism.
It's good to hear your opinion on my opinion.

 

[BlueTongue]

the problem with the 'totally nuclear' approach is that it's very hard to rebuild with the right people and elements due to factors outside of your control.

when dealing with people, it's just as much about their availability as it is filling a need.

look at the roos, sacking most of their board, starting with arguably the GOAT coach and plenty of draft picks and young talent. they're hardly in a good position.

I now think that whilst there may b e a need to blow up big parts of a club where it is just extremely toxic (such as the elliott era), most of the time it is about the steady building of culture and incremental improvement both on field and off field.

I totally agree except we've gone down this path a few times and it hasn't worked.
Cut out the rot I say, but I'm not in charge

 

[BlueTongue]

Players starting to give up in my opinion…his gone

I agree on the Give-up part. I was at the ground and the look of resignation on their faces, especially Weiters, was not what I was expecting. Same look as Harry in Round 1.

I still think something big has been going down since preseason. Either that or they just cant stomach playing for Voss anymore because the effort is just not there for 4/4.

 

[jpfalvo]

I agree on the Give-up part. I was at the ground and the look of resignation on their faces, especially Weiters, was not what I was expecting. Same look as Harry in Round 1.

I still think something big has been going down since preseason. Either that or they just cant stomach playing for Voss anymore because the effort is just not there for 4/4.

Expand on your 2nd paragraph

 

[BlueTongue]

Expand on your 2nd paragraph

I'm not an ITK, I don't know anything, it's just speculation based on the fact that they came out in Round one, having done a long hard preseason, and looked like they just did not want to be there. Round 1!

This was no 'went too easy and underestimated Tigers' type miss, it was more like they were just going through the motions.
I thought that may go after a few wins, but the Crows game and the GWS game especially, they looked really 'off' again.
Something's not right.

 

[Blue By Blood]

I agree on the Give-up part. I was at the ground and the look of resignation on their faces, especially Weiters, was not what I was expecting. Same look as Harry in Round 1.

I still think something big has been going down since preseason. Either that or they just cant stomach playing for Voss anymore because the effort is just not there for 4/4.

That's the thing though.. the effort is there. We are one of the highest pressure act teams in the competition. We are one of the best contested ball winning teams in the competition. The players are cracking in and giving their all. Imagine how dejected you'd be after a game if the coach looked you in the eye and said guys I'm going to need you to crack in harder for longer.. or keep at it and things will turn.. they don't have much more to give and are rightfully starting to question if this plan is going to help them succeed. The game plan is archaic. Everything is a chore. Footy isn't fun for these guys anymore, you can cleary see that. Things have to change.

 

[BlueTongue]

That's the thing though.. the effort is there.

No it's not. Not by everyone. There are quite a few 'conditional' players. And it's not the young blokes fresh into the team that are turning in crap efforts.

You saw how well we played when everyone cracked in against Geelong. I thought that may inspire. But no.

 

[JK61]

That's the thing though.. the effort is there. We are one of the highest pressure act teams in the competition. We are one of the best contested ball winning teams in the competition. The players are cracking in and giving their all. Imagine how dejected you'd be after a game if the coach looked you in the eye and said guys I'm going to need you to crack in harder for longer.. or keep at it and things will turn.. they don't have much more to give and are rightfully starting to question if this plan is going to help them succeed. The game plan is archaic. Everything is a chore. Footy isn't fun for these guys anymore, you can cleary see that. Things have to change.

I agree, the effort is definitely there. We play a very labour intensive game and teams with speed and kicking efficiency can simply overwhelm us. I think it’s now becoming exhausting for our good players - you can see it on their faces. I still believe things can turn quickly but at this point it’s not looking good.

 

[blue healer]

I agree, the effort is definitely there. We play a very labour intensive game and teams with speed and kicking efficiency can simply overwhelm us. I think it’s now becoming exhausting for our good players - you can see it on their faces. I still believe things can turn quickly but at this point it’s not looking good.

I agree, even the commentators were saying we look spent in the last quarter, I can't believe that we are any less fit than other teams so I could only put it down to gamestyle.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I agree, even the commentators were saying we look spent in the last quarter, I can't believe that we are any less fit than other teams so I could only put it down to gamestyle.

Game style, aerobic capacity of most players and skill execution.

It is energy sapping chasing arse all game after turnovers as well as being outpaced from congestion.

Players find an extra yard even when fatigued when there is a chance to get involved offensively as opposed to defensively, the motivation levels fluctuate!

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

This last bit about Kennedy is spot on. We often said he adds to our slowness problem. But what we see is that when there is a good system in place for the players to follow, when the ball is moved quickly, a lack of leg speed doesn't matter. A quality player is a quality player. Once again this falls back on Voss not being able to fit players into a system and make them better. It also falls back on list management.

By year 4 of the Voss tenure, the game plan should be so embedded that players have no confusion on field. They should know where to run, when to hold their width, when to attack, when to defend etc.. but we still rely on individuals rather than system and it's why we don't see much improvement in any players. Now look at Collingwood under McRae. Their system is so embedded that even when they have injuries, any player coming in even if they aren't super talented is able to perform a role. Our coaching is the problem. We aren't miles off it. We need a new coach that implements a clear and modern game plan that allows even the role players to play a role.

Great post. Pies can be missing their best five but system wont change and will be implemented effectively.

Re Kennedy and ball movement, precise quick ball movement will make even the slowest team look fast. The bulldogs midfield (Bont, Libba, Dale etc) are hardly express.

 

[DieselKernahan]

I agree, even the commentators were saying we look spent in the last quarter, I can't believe that we are any less fit than other teams so I could only put it down to gamestyle.

Yep. Goes with those comments I read here from someone speaking with an assistant coach at another club. Said our game style is too taxing and bruising, not sustainable long term.
Also read recently someone pointing out we seem to be copying the Melbourne game style from 2021. Perhaps why we seem to match up pretty well with them.
The style for the past couple of years is more transition from defence, speed, outside run - kind of the opposite of our current style.
Under Voss we probably look our most dangerous winning the ball from centre bounces and banging it forward to Charlie & Harry. Ability to bang on quick goals that way. Most clubs know this by now though and have invested time into neutralising our centre bounces dominance. Leaving us scrapping around for goals…

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Great post. Pies can be missing their best five but system wont change and will be implemented effectively.

Re Kennedy and ball movement, precise quick ball movement will make even the slowest team look fast. The bulldogs midfield (Bont, Libba, Dale etc) are hardly express.

Dogs midfield is better skilled though, we are neither fast or skilled which is a terrible combination to have in todays game.

 

[blues4flag]

My question is would having Kennedy in our side make us a flag threat? Is he the difference?

And if we hadn’t traded him we wouldn’t have got O’Farrell who looks like a 10 year KPP along with room in SC to keep TDK and/or get another good player

Then we have been able to play and develop Lord who is looking like another 10 year midfielder

Would Hewett be playing as well as he is now having to share the midfield?

It’s not that simple

Agree, has all the hallmarks of a win-win. Kennedy not the difference between a flag. O'Farrell is as promising a young defender as we've had since Weitering joined.

If we kept Kennedy, every chance Lord is languishing in the 2s. The injury to Smith is unfortunate but between Lord and Ben Campo we've got sufficient injury cover.

The O'Farrell pick was unders on paper but we've turned it into a very promising player.

 

[MacReady]

Whether it be over this break or end of year, Voss is gone. And i'm not too certain how I feel about it. I agree that he does have to go as he is not doing a fantastic job but, what about some of the responsibility falling onto the players? The assistant coaches? The culture at our club is rotten to the core.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I came out and roasted Voss for his game plan and team selections after the 2023 finals series. My biggest complaints being he does not value run and leg speed, uses old fashion outdated defensive tactics and is obsessed with contested and negative football. It was obvious by his team selection through that finals series and I expressed this as being a massive red flag. I got roasted for this myself and to all those who did not agree with what I was saying, I told you so!

A few years later have a look at out list. Painfully slow. We play a horribly outdated game style. The game plan and recruiting direction have nearly completly ignored run and carry and kicking. Teams defend by having a lot of players around the ground with leg speed who can run you down. Not by playing up the boundary line and attempting to keep the game congested like we do and forcing big numbers behind the ball. Teams attack by going more direct and running with the ball in hand to open up targets. Not by sitting out wide with all the opposition players lined up in front of you and bombing into the congestion like us.

Game plan shapes your list. Your coach shapes your list. Our game plan and list is out dated and not good enough. It can't play modern football.

Voss is a poor coach, it's not up for debate, he just doesn't have the vision for it. Head in the sand big time in regards to how the successful sides are playing the game and winning. He simply can not see it.

The thing that shits me the most is that we could have probably made Voss work. Good assistants who push a more open game plan and the recruiting of players who suite this style of footy could have worked. I don't know, Voss may be too stubbord and set in his ways.

There is just no vision at this club. We are so head in the sand when it comes to what the better teams are doing to win games. They are all quick, skillful and use pace to defend, apply pressure, run with the ball to open the game up.

We have a core of high level stars and have absolutely wasted them.

Voss is a massive bust that has ruined our chance with this list build. We have a slim chance of coming good in a few years if we do everything right and get one with the players on this list at the back end of their careers. But I am not holding my breath.

Fantastic post - the problem is coaching...this means Voss, but also more than Voss. As a group, they're not up to date with the current best practice.

Their ineptness plays a large part in our 'needs' for drafting, and goals when setting development and training skills.

You often get what you aim for. We've aimed to be fantastic defensively - we can shut teams down. We aim to be ferocious at the contest - we often do. So we are strong in these two areas, but the rest of the comp are somewhat conceding on these points because there's easier avenues to goal by focusing on skill, ball movement, player movement and transition football.

Message to Carlton: Easy doesn't necessarily mean bad. In this case, easy means less taxing on the players and therefore, more sustainable.

 

[JK61]

Under Voss we probably look our most dangerous winning the ball from centre bounces and banging it forward to Charlie & Harry. Ability to bang on quick goals that way. Most clubs know this by now though and have invested time into neutralising our centre bounces dominance. Leaving us scrapping around for goals…

2 factors enabling teams to neutralise our midfield are:
Walsh - (whose overall disposal numbers av 25.5 is ok) has only had 8 centre clearances from 158 CBA.
TDK - opposition rucks are limiting his ability to tap with his dominant left hand

The alternatives to Walsh have not fared much better, Lord to centre clearances from 26 CBA and Motlop 5 from 40.

 

[JK61]

For Lord it was meant to say 2 centre clearances from 26

 

[Juddernaut08]

For Lord it was meant to say 2 centre clearances from 26

 

[Juddernaut08]

2 factors enabling teams to neutralise our midfield are:
Walsh - (whose overall disposal numbers av 25.5 is ok) has only had 8 centre clearances from 158 CBA.
TDK - opposition rucks are limiting his ability to tap with his dominant left hand

The alternatives to Walsh have not fared much better, Lord to centre clearances from 26 CBA and Motlop 5 from 40.

I do agree on the eye test, Walsh isn't having impact in the centre clearances. This is partially his role, he may be trying to be the first receiver but I think it's mainly because he's getting tagged a lot.

Our big clearance winners (Cripps, Hewett) would be the ones tasked with hunting the clearance, and rightfully have higher numbers.

Likewise, I'm not sure what Lord and Motlop's roles are with their CBAs. Given both are notably more zippy than Cripps and Hewett (and smaller), again it makes sense that they wouldn't be necessarily hunting the clearance, but being the first option.