Midfield options

[Art OF war]

^^^ Geez it was some positive assumptions by a supporter about an Eagles player whats the issue AOW?

I don't like him Bods.

But i'm still hoping he gives me a lift tomorrow night

 

[fryzie]

So you base your whole guesstimation on Wisbeys opinion? What about the 9 other clubs, with their team of recruiters who i am sure have their own expert and objective opinions, which picked before the WCE? Did you just look at 1 opinion and make your own assumption?

My opinion is based on watching Hurn's football to date and having lived in Brisbane for 3 years watched a lot of Voss' footy up close and seeing many similarities between the way the two go about their game. Therefore I tend to agree with Wiseby's opinion and used the statistics of Voss to demonstrate that their careers are taking similar strides. The fact is most players don't have their 'breakout years' until their third or fourth seasons.

Other clubs' recruiters and experts may have had different needs and intentions that year, or may have been concerned about Shannon's problems with OP. Hurn went at pick 13 in a draft that Collingwood, Carlton and Hawthorn had multiple picks before us with specific requirements and as you've said yourself in other posts, recruiting is not an exact science. Hird went at pick 79, although from memory you thought he'd gone at pick 58. I'm sure your opinion is entirely educated and credible aside from that mistake.

I'm glad your optimistic and truth be told I hope your right but to go around proclaiming Hurn will make it this year without a doubt is a bit simple. Look back at your diatribe to the first sentence of the second paragraph....That was the smartest thing you said

Hurn is a great player and I don't think it is unreasonable for me to believe that he will have his breakout season this year given past trends. You have been touting Shuey as the rising star based on what? His junior form? He hasn't even played a senior game. If you're allowed to produce such bold statements, surely I can do the same about a player who has been in the system for 3 years and is in our best 22.

 

[Art OF war]

My opinion is based on watching Hurn's football to date and having lived in Brisbane for 3 years watched a lot of Voss' footy up close and seeing many similarities between the way the two go about their game. Therefore I tend to agree with Wiseby's opinion and used the statistics of Voss to demonstrate that their careers are taking similar strides. The fact is most players don't have their 'breakout years' until their third or fourth seasons.

Other clubs' recruiters and experts may have had different needs and intentions that year, or may have been concerned about Shannon's problems with OP. Hurn went at pick 13 in a draft that Collingwood, Carlton and Hawthorn had multiple picks before us with specific requirements and as you've said yourself in other posts, recruiting is not an exact science. Hird went at pick 79, although from memory you thought he'd gone at pick 58. I'm sure your opinion is entirely educated and credible aside from that mistake.



Hurn is a great player and I don't think it is unreasonable for me to believe that he will have his breakout season this year given past trends. You have been touting Shuey as the rising star based on what? His junior form? He hasn't even played a senior game. If you're allowed to produce such bold statements, surely I can do the same about a player who has been in the system for 3 years and is in our best 22.

You're not inferring living in Brisbane for 3 years makes you an expert on Voss? Surely not. I watch most of Buddy’s games and have for the last couple of years. Am i an expert on him now?

So the clubs before WCE didn't pick midfielders? Correct me if i am wrong but didn't Higgins have a few knee problems as well?

My apologies about pick 58. I was thinking of Dane Swan. A gold star for you. While we are delving into the past, I would think many people have watched Hurn on this board but at least they have not claimed Hurn will have his breakout year for the last 3 years and again this year. But if you keep on saying it, eventually, you might get it right. You sound like a bad gambler that can never give up...you just keep rebuying

 

[PRANKSTER666]

I hope you're right Fryzie.

He has been stuck in a back pocket/flank for most of his games to date, so if he does spend more time in the midfield this year there is a good chance he will take his game to the next level.

He has the size and a penetrating kick but will be interesting to see if he has the other requirements to play through the midfield, e.g. motor, awareness and skills.

We have a large number of players who can and/or want to play through the midfield this year so will be interesting which ones get the chance, surely some experimenting will be done in the pre-season games.

Apart from the usual suspects it is Hurn, Staker and Lynch that are the wildcards to our new look midfield.

 

[bali-dog]

well, regardless of the differing points of view,this is a really informative thread...its brought me up to speed re the state of our midfield..
i perhaps naievely thought that shuey+swift were brought in as almost immediate replacements for cuzznjudd..not realising how inexperienced they are,or the experienced players above them deserving of a go..its easy to forget with the hellish 08 season,that we just never had a stable team,with so many injuries etc..now we finally get to see those promising intermediate players meld with seniors and get into a groove( midfield especially)..then sprinkle a bit of youth/newbie stardust on top when called for..

its also worth noting with the debate on priddis..apart from his intensive onfield learning curve in a relatively short time,any new wce midfielders coming in after him, havent had that precious time+experience playing with cuzznjudd..most be worth something.

i also have been waiting for a Hurn emergence..since first laying eyes on that booming direct kick..waiting for it to be put to good use,that and his bustling bodywork..for one reason or another has been very workmanlike,but would love to see him step up and show some flair, take the game on occasionally a la kerr..be great in the midfield bursting thru the pack and rocketing the ball to lecras/mckinley..

 

[fryzie]

You're not inferring living in Brisbane for 3 years makes you an expert on Voss? Surely not. I watch most of Buddy’s games and have for the last couple of years. Am i an expert on him now?

Not an expert by any means, just more informed. Living in Brisbane gave me the opportunity to see much more of the Lions than most Eagles fans as every single Lions game was televised and I got to go to quite a few games (it was the time when the Lions were on top and the Eagles were the only team who consistently thumped them at the Gabba ). I could read nothing about the Eagles in the papers, it was all Lions. If you watch most of Buddy's games then that would make you more informed about him as a player than someone who watches none of his games. See how it works?

So the clubs before WCE didn't pick midfielders? Correct me if i am wrong but didn't Higgins have a few knee problems as well?

They picked different midfielders based on their individual merits and qualities, not to mention you're talking about kids like Scott Pendleberry, Dale Thomas, Marc Murphy and Xavier Ellis, all very talented and less inury concerns. Hurn is a South Australian, almost all the non Victorian picks to go before Hurn were key position prospects. Given two kids with similar qualities, most of the time the homegrown talent will win out.

I don't know much about Higgins as he has been injured for most of his AFL career, however I believe he is usually played as a forward at the Doggies. Don't see the point in comparing a forward/mid to a half back flanker/mid.

Hopefully we're both right, Hurn has a breakout year and becomes a leader through the midfield and Shuey gets an early crack and wins the Rising Star. The fact remains that while it's all speculation - one thing is without a doubt, with the injection of some very talented youth, less injuries to the senior list allowing players like Hurn into the middle, the Eagles will shine in '09. If that's not too simple a statement.

God bless Australia.

 

[Art OF war]

Not an expert by any means, just more informed. Living in Brisbane gave me the opportunity to see much more of the Lions than most Eagles fans as every single Lions game was televised and I got to go to quite a few games (it was the time when the Lions were on top and the Eagles were the only team who consistently thumped them at the Gabba ). I could read nothing about the Eagles in the papers, it was all Lions. If you watch most of Buddy's games then that would make you more informed about him as a player than someone who watches none of his games. See how it works?



They picked different midfielders based on their individual merits and qualities, not to mention you're talking about kids like Scott Pendleberry, Dale Thomas, Marc Murphy and Xavier Ellis, all very talented and less inury concerns. Hurn is a South Australian, almost all the non Victorian picks to go before Hurn were key position prospects. Given two kids with similar qualities, most of the time the homegrown talent will win out.

I don't know much about Higgins as he has been injured for most of his AFL career, however I believe he is usually played as a forward at the Doggies. Don't see the point in comparing a forward/mid to a half back flanker/mid.

Hopefully we're both right, Hurn has a breakout year and becomes a leader through the midfield and Shuey gets an early crack and wins the Rising Star. The fact remains that while it's all speculation - one thing is without a doubt, with the injection of some very talented youth, less injuries to the senior list allowing players like Hurn into the middle, the Eagles will shine in '09. If that's not too simple a statement.

God bless Australia.

Ok. I'll choose to ignore the obvious flaws in your arguments and look at the plethora of positives that the WCE have. Also my boss is getting angry at seeing me alt Tab every time he walks in.

To be honest i like Hurn and think he will play many games for the WCE.

Shuey will obviously win the rising star and this is as they say "without a doubt"

 

[wce4premiership]

I think the players who could be class mids are swift, masten, ebert, butler and obviously kerr.

Not sold on the rst yet, especially priddis and hurn

 

[Eastern Rangers]

It's strange considering Hurn did not play enough last year to get into any mode. Especially intresting given Dale Tomas's inconistancy Marc Murphy's lack luster kicking and Ellis who is without a doubt showing the most signs of being top line.

Hurn is no less developed and played a critical role for Westcoast over the past three years. I would say we have done well with Hurn, he just needs a solid mature season under his belt, Flanker or Midfeild i want him in the team.

I would still add Shuey, from his shape, size, fitness and footage from u18 was seriously under rated and a gem pickup. From the times ive seen Hurn in the middle he can seem to get lost and i really like him on the HBF his just punnishing in that position him and Bones made a mean duo, Priddis has serious trouble with his disposal efficency.

I would love WC to get our defense back to strength in 2009, thats why i want Selwood and Hurn playing back there. It's not like we are short on MF options we just need to back our youth and develop the young defenders we have on our list like McNamara, Wilkes, J.Jones and McKenzie.

I figure if our Forward like conists of Brown, Kennedy, Wirra, LeCras and McKinley with a full strength defense our midfeild will have an easier time and out team will be able to rebound better, while also punnishing them better. Forgett Priddis as a centerman or midfeilder (lets be creative and put him in a non key position and see what he does, his fitness and tackling is quality, HFF perhaps?) and lets start winning some ball.

If we start running Hurn and Selwood through the midfeild every game we will suffer from a weak defense and lack side stability from round to round.

 

[robbo wisdom]

i have a feeling hurn and staker will probably be competiting for the last midfield spot in the team. you would say that they are both more of an outside midfield option because of speed and acceleration they possess. each have a long penetrating kick and are in that utility type mould where they can play any position of the ground.

for the future hurn should be played ahead of staker. A: he is a better overall player with consistency B: has more development left in his game which will come out through gametime

thats just my opinion

 

[Belgarion]

The fact remains that while it's all speculation - one thing is without a doubt, with the injection of some very talented youth, less injuries to the senior list allowing players like Hurn into the middle, the Eagles will shine in '09. If that's not too simple a statement.

God bless Australia.

I agree with the above. We'll have a much better year this year and once kids like Naitanui, Shuey, etc put 50 or so games under their belt, this is when we'll start challenging for the flag again.

 

[Eagle87]

I agree with the above. We'll have a much better year this year and once kids like Naitanui, Shuey, etc put 50 or so games under their belt, this is when we'll start challenging for the flag again.

Agreed in general.

The 50 game thing is a "it depends". In 1993 the Baby Bombers wn the flag with the following players being very important:

Calthorpe 13 games 20 years old
Fletcher 17 games 18 years old
Hird 20 games 20 yo
Mercuri 23 games 19yo
Misiti 25 games 18 yo
Olarenshaw 16 games 20yo
Wanganeen 60 games 20 yo

Thats 7 players out of 20! aged 20 or under who kicked 80% of the goals and averaged almost 20 possessions each.

If they are good enough and they have some experience around them then kids can stand up quickly.....

 

[Eastern Rangers]

If Westcoast won a flag next year, hate levels would be at record highs never before seen.

 

[purple hater]

It's strange considering Hurn did not play enough last year to get into any mode. Especially intresting given Dale Tomas's inconistancy Marc Murphy's lack luster kicking and Ellis who is without a doubt showing the most signs of being top line.

Hurn is no less developed and played a critical role for Westcoast over the past three years. I would say we have done well with Hurn, he just needs a solid mature season under his belt, Flanker or Midfeild i want him in the team.

I would still add Shuey, from his shape, size, fitness and footage from u18 was seriously under rated and a gem pickup. From the times ive seen Hurn in the middle he can seem to get lost and i really like him on the HBF his just punnishing in that position him and Bones made a mean duo, Priddis has serious trouble with his disposal efficency.

I would love WC to get our defense back to strength in 2009, thats why i want Selwood and Hurn playing back there. It's not like we are short on MF options we just need to back our youth and develop the young defenders we have on our list like McNamara, Wilkes, J.Jones and McKenzie.

I figure if our Forward like conists of Brown, Kennedy, Wirra, LeCras and McKinley with a full strength defense our midfeild will have an easier time and out team will be able to rebound better, while also punnishing them better. Forgett Priddis as a centerman or midfeilder (lets be creative and put him in a non key position and see what he does, his fitness and tackling is quality, HFF perhaps?) and lets start winning some ball.
If we start running Hurn and Selwood through the midfeild every game we will suffer from a weak defense and lack side stability from round to round.

So you are thinking a RoJo role for Priddis? It might work actually, he is an excellent tackler and is fit/ strong enough to put on the blocks for others.

The trouble with last year was that there weren't enough others with experience around the ball for him to be able to play that role. Hopefully the next generation will start stepping up and he could become a defensive HFF.

Same rules apply for him as for RoJo, whatever you do, just dont kick the ball!

 

[bodazoka]

^^ Agreed, we cant use Priddis in any other role than our #2 (#1 when Kerr is suspended) mid as the kids are not developed enough. When they start learning to take on the game more I can see Priddis go back to being an in and under mid dishing handballs out and applying pressure in the contest.

We also desperately need some more defence minded forwards mabye even "tagging" the McLeod/Shaw types who usually run the ball from defence. I dont know if Priddis has the speed to go with such a player though, and I would not count on him being able to kick many goals himself. The best option for defence in the forward line would be for our forwards to man up/zone as quick as possible 100% of the time rather than leave the forward line defence up too one guy.

Na.. IMO Priddis's main strengths are in and under, and if the kids ever develope enough to push him out of that role (and he does not work on the kicking) than re-invent him as a #2 tagger.

 

[bodazoka]

It's strange considering Hurn did not play enough last year to get into any mode. Especially intresting given Dale Tomas's inconistancy Marc Murphy's lack luster kicking and Ellis who is without a doubt showing the most signs of being top line.

Hurn is no less developed and played a critical role for Westcoast over the past three years. I would say we have done well with Hurn, he just needs a solid mature season under his belt, Flanker or Midfeild i want him in the team.

I would love WC to get our defense back to strength in 2009, thats why i want Selwood and Hurn playing back there. It's not like we are short on MF options we just need to back our youth and develop the young defenders we have on our list like McNamara, Wilkes, J.Jones and McKenzie.

If we start running Hurn and Selwood through the midfeild every game we will suffer from a weak defense and lack side stability from round to round.

Looking back through that draft hurn was/is a pretty good pick up. ATM it doesnt seem like a draft blessed with an abundance of talent (no Judds) but there are some very very solid players and it had good depth. If you add Kennedy as a pick up than we absolutely r*ped it.

Hurn, A.Selwood, Waters, Jones and Glass down back as a unit is a pretty mouth watering combo, add another tall out of the developing backmen or I guess use Hunter..

Its pretty obvious though that our main problem is injuries.. centre, flank, back I dont care just get on the park for 22 straight games. Our positional problems will sort them selves out when our players stop being injured.

 

[Evil Pleb]

I would like to see Hurn play on the wing in a similar role to what Braun played. Braun was like a 5th mid fielder racking up possesions at will because no one would tail him. The upside to Hurn playing such a role is that he is quick and can dash 10-20m before he kicks given the room on the wing. Most of all, if he could consistently get 20 touches a game with the kind of kick he has, he could really hurt oppositions and break down zones when he sends long balls over it. Woosha needs to find a way to get Hurn the ball more often so his kicking can be utilized to the full. Ditto Ashley Smith when he gets games. Hurn won't get a fair shake at a mid field role, so getting him enough ball to make him a damaging player consistently should be in the thoughts of the coaches for efficiency and effect. Hurn is wasted on the FB line but not as much so on a HBF were he can still get a fair amount of ball and have a positive influence.

 

[Shtav]

I would like to see Hurn play on the wing in a similar role to what Braun played. Braun was like a 5th mid fielder racking up possesions at will because no one would tail him. The upside to Hurn playing such a role is that he is quick and can dash 10-20m before he kicks given the room on the wing. Most of all, if he could consistently get 20 touches a game with the kind of kick he has, he could really hurt oppositions and break down zones when he sends long balls over it. Woosha needs to find a way to get Hurn the ball more often so his kicking can be utilized to the full. Ditto Ashley Smith when he gets games. Hurn won't get a fair shake at a mid field role, so getting him enough ball to make him a damaging player consistently should be in the thoughts of the coaches for efficiency and effect. Hurn is wasted on the FB line but not as much so on a HBF were he can still get a fair amount of ball and have a positive influence.

Agree

 

[DrTomSwift]

As much as I'd love for that to happen, Hurn will never play brauns role. Braun was a fitness machine, with super high endurance. Hurn on the other hand whilst still a machine won't reach Braun's endurance.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

As much as I'd love for that to happen, Hurn will never play brauns role. Braun was a fitness machine, with super high endurance. Hurn on the other hand whilst still a machine won't reach Braun's endurance.

Correct, he simply does not have the legs.

 

[Evil Pleb]

As much as I'd love for that to happen, Hurn will never play brauns role. Braun was a fitness machine, with super high endurance. Hurn on the other hand whilst still a machine won't reach Braun's endurance.

I agree with you on your comment.
If only Hurn could build the tank to go with his ability.

 

[beatlesmith]

hurn has certainly improved his fitness. Had one of the best beep test times and is tearing up the training track. That said i doubt he will ever have braun like endurance, he is far more of an impact player than a blue collar accumulator.
Play him on the interchange wing so he can be brought on for bursts and then rested quickly.

 

[Evil Pleb]

hurn has certainly improved his fitness. Had one of the best beep test times and is tearing up the training track. That said i doubt he will ever have braun like endurance, he is far more of an impact player than a blue collar accumulator.
Play him on the interchange wing so he can be brought on for bursts and then rested quickly.

Good call. He needs to be where he can get the ball and have more of an impact.

 

[sydney eagle]

How about trying him as a Half Forward Flanker on occasions ? His long kick might be what we need to break open flooding defences. Tell him to kick it long towards goal and get Kennedy (supposedly a good pack mark) in the goalsquare with a crumber at his feet.

 

[Quinz]

hurn has certainly improved his fitness. Had one of the best beep test times and is tearing up the training track. That said i doubt he will ever have braun like endurance, he is far more of an impact player than a blue collar accumulator.
Play him on the interchange wing so he can be brought on for bursts and then rested quickly.

Well said beatle. Hurn is much more damaging per disposal than Braun was, but he won't pick up the same number. He needs to be in a position where we can get maximum use of his possessions. I have mentioned before that I would like to see him on the HFF, has kicked plenty of goals from outside 50 and doesn't muck around with it, no kicking to the pockets.

Running him off the wing would also be effective, he has played down back in the past but we really don't need him there any more, our backline is solid and with players like Nicoski and Brett Jones we have rebounding options already.