Milne charged

[Squizz]

Fair enough, and thanks for replying, but I think it could be clearly seen that I wasn't trolling...
You're going to have your work cut out keeping this thread respectable, and you have my kudos for that.

With Milne's future, I think either the path of indefinite suspension awaiting the out come of the trial is an option, although it might even take until the end of next year when he would likely retire anyway...

He may well retire. The club should have a chat with him and explain that for reasons such as sponsors, the absolute amount of boo'ing and abuse he'll cop should he continue to play, that he can't possibly keep playing this year. Just my opinion.

Agree it wasn't a troll.

We are just asking the other supporters to be respectful to the individuals involved, as well as to the supporters here (given there will be numerous other mediums to give opinions on).

People scream abuse at Milne regularly - the AFL has been slow to act on this issue.

 

[Squizz]

Squizzy1970 I'm sure you're already one step ahead but might be an idea to preface the title saying read the OP and update it with some guidelines.

Have been meaning to do that for a while, but battling for time!!!

 

[stkildathunda]

Classy work by Scum Journos

@_WarwickGreen 1m
wonder how Caro's going with that campaign to get Malthouse to apologise to Milne?

 

[Tombowler]

I'm curious what your expertise are in this area. If an inquiry has been conducted after this length of time that concludes with a charge, you'd expect a reasonable level of confidence between the investigating officers and the DPP that a conviction could be obtained. They will look (even more) shambolic if charges are once again thrown out before proceeding to trial.

I'd rather not say too much as to my particular expertise. There's every chance that, as it's an OPI matter, a lot of it is a corrective application of justice 'being seen to be done'. For example, if the opinion is that without the alleged interference, that charges were likely or reasonable, they ought to be laid to prevent justice having been perverted by that interference, even though that perversion might result end up ultimately thwarting the charges. OPI's (I haven't had any dealing with VicPol OPI) are generally curiously political beasts and, in my experience, given to fits of fearless public service, frolics of huge expense and exercising enormous investigative efforts, where the matter is an irreversibly tangled mess from the word go.

Charges, even major indictables, are often laid well far in advance of any consultation of the DPP's office and without seeking any opinions on the evidence from them; this is partly responsible for the high rate of charged offending failing to reach trial. Interestingly, a sworn statement from the victim is considered sufficient to lay charges in most sex-offending, indeed historical offending being determined 'oath on oath' is increasingly common.

The Police being 'confident' in their evidence is less compelling than often thought.

EDIT: I have just seen that VicPol said the decision to lay charges was made '...in consultation with the DPP' - This jars somewhat with the 2010 DPP opinion. It doesn't materially affect my comment though.

 

[Defacto]

My money: chances of a conviction are almost zero- I'm sure Baldur will agree. It's utter bastardry that they're putting him through this, it'll die in committal but the innuendo will of course continue and Milney will be hounded out of footy.

+1 here. although at a minimum milne is guilty of being extremely immoral

given past issues. he has to be stood down pending resolution of the court case. theres no other way

 

[ash_78]

I'd rather not say too much as to my particular expertise. There's every chance that, as it's an OPI matter, a lot of it is a corrective application of justice 'being seen to be done'. For example, if the opinion is that without the alleged interference, that charges were likely or reasonable, they ought to be laid to prevent justice having been perverted by that interference, even though that perversion might result end up ultimately thwarting the charges. OPI's (I haven't had any dealing with VicPol OPI) are generally curiously political beasts and, in my experience, given to fits of fearless public service, frolics of huge expense and exercising enormous investigative efforts, where the matter is an irreversibly tangled mess from the word go.

Charges, even major indictables, are often laid well far in advance of any consultation of the DPP's office and without seeking any opinions on the evidence from them; this is partly responsible for the high rate of charged offending failing to reach trial. Interestingly, a sworn statement from the victim is considered sufficient to lay charges in most sex-offending, indeed historical offending being determined 'oath on oath' is increasingly common.

The Police being 'confident' in their evidence is less compelling than often thought.

EDIT: I have just seen that VicPol said the decision to lay charges was made '...in consultation with the DPP' - This jars somewhat with the 2010 DPP opinion. It doesn't materially affect my comment though.

Very good response. Thanks.

 

[tbarker]

Not at all. They have claimed there was a "partner swap". Supposedly one of the 4 people in the house says she didn't intend to be a swinger (thought she was with Montagna instead of Milne).

That is correct from what I have been told.
Lovett was sacked for not turning up to training etc...(at least that is the official club position).
I await the full investigation and I recommend others do the same before commenting further.

 

[tazzawazza]

Extremely disappointing. Hats off to the best small forward in this decade, really wanted him to coach our emerging small forwards once he retired. Will not happen any more.

 

[Squizz]

Guys - if the moron element raise their ugly heads here, can you give us a sec before reporting the post. Ta.

 

[Squizz]

The St Kilda Football Club ... acknowledges that any reopening of the matter will cause distress for all parties. The club is gathering details of this reinvestigation and intends to make further comment tomorrow.

 

[Qsaint]

I feel that this is actually a good thing; a short term pain for long term gain kind of thing.

If Milne is innocent, then it will be proven and people can stop claiming that there was some BS conspiracy.
If Milne is guilty, then justice will be served.

Sure, it's yet another period of dragging Milne's name through the mud (assuming he is, in fact, innocent) but the damage has already been done, so just a little bit more in order to finish this rubbish off won't matter too much at all, really.

Unfortunately maybe not, if you read back what has been posted previously it is possible because of the going ons of the investigation this may have serious problems moving beyond committal. So whilst it, if it happens, will be a decision all may not view it as clear cut as you point out.

 

[God Save Max King]

I wonder how many people Milne could sue for defamation after the case. I'm not too knowledgable about the legal system but surely there's a few.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Surely he is taking the piss.. Maybe if he could turn up to training etc he might have actually not got the sack.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Surely he is taking the piss.. Maybe if he could turn up to training etc he might have actually not got the sack.

Jesus, what an embarrassment.

 

[God Save Max King]

Surely he is taking the piss.. Maybe if he could turn up to training etc he might have actually not got the sack.

No wonder he was sacked. Lovett's IQ musn't have been greater than 10. Absolute idiot

 

[Strahany]

Lovett's attitude when he came to the club suggested that he was a Grade-A f***wit; this post proves it.

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

Biggest moron around it seems.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Pretty mind-blowing news this, it has been such a long time between the incidents and these charges. Just a terrible situation for all involved really and the long gap in time points towards some serious issues at play with the police and how they handled the investigation which is another issue altogether.

 

[Sainttony]

I feel really sorry for his family especially the young kids who will have to endure the trial by media irrespective of any outcome. I just hope that the media report facts rather than making up things just to get a headline.


To the Collingwood supporter who posted this:

Hats off to the best small forward in this decade, really wanted him to coach our emerging small forwards once he retired. Will not happen any more.

Why the f....... would he not be able to be considered for any coaching job. He has not been found guilty of anything and it is this type of attitude that is so typical of a Collingwood supporter and typified by your former coachs reaction to Milney during a game.

 

[cartwright]

I can see both sides

But the club is more important than the player

If he was copping abuse before, imagine what it'll be like, for him, other players, us fans, if he goes out onto the field

Innocent until proven guilty
even if that means that the footy bogans who scream rapist, get excited whenever he gets near the ball.

I am hoping he is innocent. For both parties.

 

[Yidaki]

Hope the mods can keep this thread clear of trolls. Reckon this should be Saints only thread.

Anyone who trolls rape is just an idiot.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

The rumours suggest that Milne at the worst committed sexual assault , in that he "got a feel by deception" for want of a more correct way of saying it. Apart from these rumours there have been no other suggestions that Milne is subject to habitual bad behaviour.

In some other rape cases people are subjected to the full sex act without the victim consenting in any way. This could make it difficult to others who would need to work with such a person, given they had just witnessed the impact on the victim.

Because of the different circumstances that can occur I don't think its a simple rule that the club should respond the same way for every player charged with a criminal offense, though people who tend to over simplify everything probably think they should.

However?
They have come up with 4 charges, which suggests there may be something over and above the rumours. ( or they are trying to do the cascading charges thing, hoping that he'll plea bargain his way into a lesser charge ). It seems that the alleged victim has always remained clear that she wanted Milne prosecuted. You'd think that she has been deeply offended, more than what the rumours would suggest she should be.

 

[MCG-Unit]

Does the club have to stand him down because of this?

Edit:..........Obviously there are greater issues in life than football, but the point I was trying to make is that St Kilda have made a precedent with the whole Lovett-Murray mess. I was coming more from the club'a angle, do they have stand him down until this is finalised one way or the other? Could spell the end for his carreer now.

Please, it was LOVETT, not Lovett-Murray.

Anyway there were major differences between Lovett and Milne. Lovett had troubles on & off field at Ess which have been well documented. At 27-28 he needed a minder and weekly meetings with the coach just to keep him on track in his last year at Ess apparently.

 

[LordJimmy]

I wonder how many people Milne could sue for defamation after the case. I'm not too knowledgable about the legal system but surely there's a few.

Half the country at this rate.

 

[StFly]

Admittedly I stopped reading at the word justice being thrown around, there is no justice in this situation, that right was forfeited on the night when intoxicated people decided on the level of decency they were going to engage in as a group, and the very moment the woman felt aggrieved from the experience. Justice as a code is something each individual holds in the situation, otherwise there is simply the situation and if you've been judged in the situation as guilty or not, the courts are merely there to reaffirm if your judgments were pure and wholesome or shit.

As in Lovett was guilty, it was not his actions or his judgments that were the problem, it was that she was too intoxicated during the event to recall so how can you trust her memory? If you can't recall the day how can you definitely say what happened in it and have people belief 100%? You can't and so you can't legitimately say lock the bastard up and throw away the key. Milne has been judged guilty in the court of public opinion, charges being thrown out again or declaration of innocence from a jury will not change this as people are not so easily swayed once we've all formed opinions on people, and if they've not let go after 9 years, a single instance won't change it one iota and he'll be dogged with the then claims until he takes his last breath, which is the shame when you have an individual in the public light tarnished with such claims of illegalities that turn out false.

This is also a double edged sword for the victim, on the one hand it may bring closure to a horrid event and the "hiccup" with regards to the initial investigation would have distressed her that even the police did not care for her plight all that greatly. On the flip side, she will have to relive it, in detail, it and she will be picked apart again and she will be on trial as much as her story and as much as Milne will be which will be further pain in such a painful experience she carries.

There is no justice in any of that, there are merely stages of pain, condemnation and poor judgments that benefit no one.